College Selection?

[fatnslow]

Yes all the kids use the common app and everyone is applying to 10 schools so the percentages are all relative now. But it is harder to get into these big state schools than it used to be because the northeast kids who maybe applied to a D3 liberal arts school in the northeast 20 years ago (Williams, Colgate, etc) are now applying to the big southern schools. 20 yrs ago in my town I never heard of kids going to schools like Texas, TCU. Now it's common.

They figured out it's much easier chasing tail in warmer weather and drinking from a solo cup is much easier when you're not shivering. I used to think the whole sports marketing was a crock but it really does work. The amount of kids paying out of state tuition at a third tier school to be in Eugene Oregon is mind boggling to me.

[riser4]

Thing #3 got accepted to VA Tech, but it was gonna be $52K for him out of state. Ya. No.

[riser4]

U of T Austin also denied him.

[Timberridge]

They figured out it's much easier chasing tail in warmer weather and drinking from a solo cup is much easier when you're not shivering. I used to think the whole sports marketing was a crock but it really does work. The amount of kids paying out of state tuition at a third tier school to be in Eugene Oregon is mind boggling to me.

I'm kinda curious to see what happens to some of these expensive northeast D3 schools with this trend. I think many of them have solid endowments to keep going on, but you walk onto Clemson's campus and you're immediately blown away by the facilities and the activity level, you walk onto the Williams campus and unless you're a fan of quaint sleepy New England colleges, you're underwhelmed.

[BmillsSkier]

Oh - and I think Emory is more like $76k. UVA (public school) is $71k for out of state. Just sayin.

And another thing: the skiing at Emory and UVA sucks.

You're not wrong. Although during Snowpocalypse there was some pretty extreme shredding (er, base-grinding) going down around town.

Here's the good news. Most private schools like Emory etc. will soften the blow with a $10K/yr academic scholarship if he's a good student. If out of state tuition for a state school is $50K/yr, usually with no scholarship attached, you're inching closer. I'd rather spend an extra 10K at Emory than say, Alabama for 10K less. YMMV.

No, you're not wrong. Extra expense for a nationally-portable degree gives a lot of value when comparing options.

And yeah, I remember working all the angles. Academic grant, blah-blah grant for being in top x% of my program, etc. In the end I think I was convinced the handful of transfer students that came in that were paying full freight were the ones subsidizing the rest of our tuition.

[fatnslow]

I'm kinda curious to see what happens to some of these expensive northeast D3 schools with this trend. I think many of them have solid endowments to keep going on, but you walk onto Clemson's campus and you're immediately blown away by the facilities and the activity level, you walk onto the Williams campus and unless you're a fan of quaint sleepy New England colleges, you're underwhelmed.

Listened to a podcast during COVID how many of them depend on dorm fees to stay alive and predicted dire financial view of some. I fought tooth/nail when my daughter chose Wellesley-they don't offer merit scholarships/need based only- over free tuition at State U but in the end I'm a 100% certain the cost to attend was well worth it . By the way that campus is freaking beautiful.

[skaredshtles]

<snip> The amount of kids paying out of state tuition at a third tier school to be in Eugene Oregon is mind boggling to me.

Hey... I know one of these.

[MarcusBrody]

Listened to a podcast during COVID how many of them depend on dorm fees to stay alive and predicted dire financial view of some. I fought tooth/nail when my daughter chose Wellesley-they don't offer merit scholarships/need based only- over free tuition at State U but in the end I'm a 100% certain the cost to attend was well worth it . By the way that campus is freaking beautiful.

I teach at a state school now and my son would get free in state tuition, but I would pay the premium for my son to go to an absolute top tier school (like Wellesley). Provided that the kid is the type to take advantage of what is provided them, there are just an amazing amount of opportunities and resources at very, very top schools. The next step down I'd think a lot harder about, even though they're very good schools and below that, I think the value proposition becomes really dubious. Obviously it matters a bit what they're studying, but if my I/my kid has to take on debt to go to Stanford/Williams/MIT/etc., I wouldn't be worried at all. I think that's simply an investment.

Now, even being able to consider going to those schools means that the kid is already doing exceptionally well, so I doubt that it will ever be an issue, but I always kind of cringe when I see people on the internet recommend people go to extreme lengths to avoid debt (go to local state school or community college for two years!) when the expected salary premium will cancel out that debt in a few years. I wholeheartedly believe that a motivated student can get a great education/career almost wherever they go, but if you can go to Princeton rather than UGA, you probably should.

[dan_pdx]

I teach at a state school now and my son would get free in state tuition, but I would pay the premium for my son to go to an absolute top tier school (like Wellesley). Provided that the kid is the type to take advantage of what is provided them,

If your son is into girls, I think he'd have a pretty spectacular experience at Wellesley...all that taking advantage of what is provided might interfere with schoolwork though

[Danno]

I teach at a state school now and my son would get free in state tuition, but I would pay the premium for my son to go to an absolute top tier school (like Wellesley). Provided that the kid is the type to take advantage of what is provided them, there are just an amazing amount of opportunities and resources at very, very top schools. The next step down I'd think a lot harder about, even though they're very good schools and below that, I think the value proposition becomes really dubious. Obviously it matters a bit what they're studying, but if my I/my kid has to take on debt to go to Stanford/Williams/MIT/etc., I wouldn't be worried at all. I think that's simply an investment.

It really matters a lot what their goals are. If they have no desire for grad school, and are just going to check the "bachelor's" box, then I do not think it matters. I went to a small "elite" east coast liberal arts school (similar to Williams or Wellesley), and when I moved out west it was a total waste, I was just another schmo with a bachelor's. Sure, I met a very occasional employer who knew of and gave some weight to my school, but not many and not much weight. However, when it came time to apply to grad school, the undergad reputation mattered quite a bit.

[riser4]

It really matters a lot what their goals are. If they have no desire for grad school, and are just going to check the "bachelor's" box, then I do not think it matters. I went to a small "elite" east coast liberal arts school (similar to Williams or Wellesley), and when I moved out west it was a total waste, I was just another schmo with a bachelor's. Sure, I met a very occasional employer who knew of and gave some weight to my school, but not many and not much weight. However, when it came time to apply to grad school, the undergad reputation mattered quite a bit.

Oooh, now we can play the guessing game because for some reason even though the rest of us have all said where we went, you are being coy. Amherst? Colby? Bates? Colby Sawyer? Bowdoin? Middlebury? Dartmouth? The last three are probably out because they have some national reputation. Sienna?

[MarcusBrody]

If your son is into girls, I think he'd have a pretty spectacular experience at Wellesley...all that taking advantage of what is provided might interfere with schoolwork though

I taught at Mount Holyoke for 6 years. I'm not sure that a higher proportion of the student population of women's colleges would be interested in him gender-wise even if he did manage to slip in. He might do ok though just because of lack of other available options.

[El Chupacabra]

Oooh, now we can play the guessing game because for some reason even though the rest of us have all said where we went, you are being coy. Amherst? Colby? Bates? Colby Sawyer? Bowdoin? Middlebury? Dartmouth? The last three are probably out because they have some national reputation. Sienna?

Liberty University?

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

unless you're a fan of quaint sleepy New England colleges, you're underwhelmed.

That's exactly what attracted our darling daughter FWIW. She didn't give a shit about UC, Stanford or Northwestern.

[Danno]

Oooh, now we can play the guessing game because for some reason even though the rest of us have all said where we went, you are being coy. Amherst? Colby? Bates? Colby Sawyer? Bowdoin? Middlebury? Dartmouth? The last three are probably out because they have some national reputation. Sienna?

Heh, I haven't been reading closely so wasn't seeing everyone name their schools (and I surely have said it at some point in the last 18 years on here EDIT: I said it earlier in this very thread). But I think it's really odd that you view the last 3 as having some national reputation and not the others (I'll cop to not ever having even heard of Sawyer???); in any event, Dartmouth is an Ivy so not in the same category at all. And maybe reputations have changed since I was in college (a long time ago), but of the others you list (and again not including Sawyer), Amherst would have been the clear leader (oddly, when I was applying, the list of the so-called "little Ivies" was short and Amherst was the only one on it from your list IIRC, but it appears to be a longer list now). But you also have a very New England focus for northeast liberal arts colleges. Just like there are other TRG forums, there is more to the northeast than New England. :p

In any event, my college was Haverford.

[MarcusBrody]

It really matters a lot what their goals are. If they have no desire for grad school, and are just going to check the "bachelor's" box, then I do not think it matters. I went to a small "elite" east coast liberal arts school (similar to Williams or Wellesley), and when I moved out west it was a total waste, I was just another schmo with a bachelor's. Sure, I met a very occasional employer who knew of and gave some weight to my school, but not many and not much weight. However, when it came time to apply to grad school, the undergad reputation mattered quite a bit.

I do agree that your path matters a good deal. And liberal arts colleges are a unique case as they're much more common on the East Coast than West Coast and so get more respect. I do think that you the potential network you have access to still exists, but if you want to stay out West, it might not be useful. One of our best friends out here in NV went to Amherst and it seems to have done well for her, but she also went to grad school after and her current job is basically location specific, so I can't say if her undergrad mattered. I do think most ambitious people are going to end up going to grad school this generation, so it might matter more than it did for ours just for that. On the other hand, I do think national east coast universities have plenty of name recognition out west. I went to Georgetown then Yale and there is both a network - even in education dead Las Vegas - and a cache that seems to exist. I came with for an academic job, so I haven't tried the general job market, but part of my job is meeting with potential private sector partners. A surprisingly high number have apparently LinkedIn stalked me before our meeting and bring up where I went to school. I think it works as it seems to lend some credibility to the academic program I'm putting together at my current employer, which is a much newer and very different type of university.

[El Chupacabra]

In any event, my college was Haverford.

Isn't that the town with the monorail?

[MarcusBrody]

Heh, I haven't been reading closely so wasn't seeing everyone name their schools (and I surely have said it at some point in the last 18 years on here). But I think it's really odd that you view the last 3 as having some national reputation and not the others (I'll cop to not ever having even heard of Sawyer???); in any event, Dartmouth is an Ivy so not in the same category at all. And maybe reputations have changed since I was in college (a long time ago), but of the others you list (and again not including Sawyer), Amherst would have been the clear leader (oddly, when I was applying, the list of the so-called "little Ivies" was short and Amherst was the only one on it from your list IIRC, but it appears to be a longer list now). But you also have a very New England focus for northeast liberal arts colleges. Just like there are other TRG forums, there is more to the northeast than New England.

In any event, my college was Haverford.

Dammit! I was going to guess Haverford after reading your paragraph. And then I saw you just said it.

I strongly considered going to Haverford. It was the first liberal arts college I ever saw (stopping by on the way to visit family in NJ) and I was enchanted. For several years I considered it my top choice. I did apply and got accepted, but by that point I'd decided I wanted to study international relations and I wasn't sure if it was the strongest option. Also it was really quiet when I visited later in high school. Maybe too quiet... I do love it though and it seems like a really cool school. How was your experience?

[EWG]

I'm quite happy this thread turned from saying goodbye to our respective college bound daughters to an argument over what school path is best. Much easier to click on emotionally for those of us waving goodbye. Keep up the good work people.

[Danno]

I do agree that your path matters a good deal. And liberal arts colleges are a unique case as they're much more common on the East Coast than West Coast and so get more respect. I do think that you the potential network you have access to still exists, but if you want to stay out West, it might not be useful. One of our best friends out here in NV went to Amherst and it seems to have done well for her, but she also went to grad school after and her current job is basically location specific, so I can't say if her undergrad mattered. I do think most ambitious people are going to end up going to grad school this generation, so it might matter more than it did for ours just for that. On the other hand, I do think national east coast universities have plenty of name recognition out west. I went to Georgetown then Yale and there is both a network - even in education dead Las Vegas - and a cache that seems to exist. I came with for an academic job, so I haven't tried the general job market, but part of my job is meeting with potential private sector partners. A surprisingly high number have apparently LinkedIn stalked me before our meeting and bring up where I went to school. I think it works as it seems to lend some credibility to the academic program I'm putting together at my current employer, which is a much newer and very different type of university.

I totally think well known schools matter more when you are 3000 miles away. Georgetown and Yale are well known nationwide, but even a school like, say, UMass would be better out west than Haverford (if we're talking bachelor's degrees and early career searches), even if Haverford is the "better" school. Because people will have heard of UMass and know you went to a legit school, whereas if they've never heard of it, if they don't research they might wonder if it's the Pennsylvania version of Liberty University.

Grad school is an entirely different thing, because it is the admissions department's job to know about all the schools. My college most certainly helped me get into law schools all over the country.

Dammit! I was going to guess Haverford after reading your paragraph. And then I saw you just said it.

I strongly considered going to Haverford. It was the first liberal arts college I ever saw (stopping by on the way to visit family in NJ) and I was enchanted. For several years I considered it my top choice. I did apply and got accepted, but by that point I'd decided I wanted to study international relations and I wasn't sure if it was the strongest option. Also it was really quiet when I visited later in high school. Maybe too quiet... I do love it though and it seems like a really cool school. How was your experience?

It WAS really quiet, and very studious. I didn't fit in well. Still, it was a great campus, I made some amazing lifelong friends, and have fond memories. The honor code (social and academic) and how it governs student life was really cool (and occasionally really annoying, a tyranny of the minority sometimes).

I absolutely do not regret my choice. But if I was starting over, I might have made a different one.

[Danno]

I'm quite happy this thread turned from saying goodbye to our respective college bound daughters to an argument over what school path is best. Much easier to click on emotionally for those of us waving goodbye. Keep up the good work people.

Sorry! Did you need more hand holding?

[MarcusBrody]

I totally think well known schools matter more when you are 3000 miles away. Georgetown and Yale are well known nationwide, but even a school like, say, UMass would be better out west than Haverford (if we're talking bachelor's degrees and early career searches), even if Haverford is the "better" school. Because people will have heard of UMass and know you went to a legit school, whereas if they've never heard of it, if they don't research they might wonder if it's the Pennsylvania version of Liberty University.

Grad school is an entirely different thing, because it is the admissions department's job to know about all the schools. My college most certainly helped me get into law schools all over the country.



It WAS really quiet, and very studious. I didn't fit in well. Still, it was a great campus, I made some amazing lifelong friends, and have fond memories. The honor code (social and academic) and how it governs student life was really cool (and occasionally really annoying, a tyranny of the minority sometimes).

I absolutely do not regret my choice. But if I was starting over, I might have made a different one.

I kind of feel the same about Georgetown. Knowing what I know about myself now, I don't think it would be where I would choose to go in a vacuum, but I had a lot of fun and I like how my life turned out, so no regrets. College can also be useful for finding out what you don't care about!

[Buzzworthy]

I'm quite happy this thread turned from saying goodbye to our respective college bound daughters to an argument over what school path is best. Much easier to click on emotionally for those of us waving goodbye. Keep up the good work people.

Some people can’t get past themselves. Sad

[riser4]

Never heard of Haverford. And ya, New England is pretty much my world. I think there's something called upstate over across the lake. Not sure.

[EWG]

Sorry! Did you need more hand holding?

I was actually not being sarcastic at all. I am happy to not be reminded of my sadness at the moment. The thread turn was sort’ve a relief.