Alec Baldwin WTF

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

My God, watch an episode of SEAL team, the red hatters wet dream on the small screen. How in the fuck are you going to take that weapons handling into account?

Alec Baldwin is a piece of shit. That doesn't mean he gets automatically charged here.

[Adolf Allerbush]

He made fun of Cono's president.

Baldwin is also a huge gaping asshole. And it was also a shitty low budget film with poorly trained armorers. Only one of these should be pursued in a legal case - the armorer and her failings.

whoever made the car analogy seems like a reasonable one. Movie set mechanic soups up a car...actor/stunt man gets in car and the gas pedal gets stuck, breaks don't work, and car runs over a bunch of people. is it the driver? they didn't check that the car was working perfectly before they drove it and trusted the mechanic.

[Garbowski]

An actor trusts the set was framed right then slams a door and it collapses on someone's head. Or flips a light switch that electrocutes a crew member.

All kinds of analogies here- the sticking point seems to be if guns are somehow special.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

Last thing you want is an actor poking around under the hood of a hero car or into a firearm. They're actors ffs, monkeys have more common sense and intelligence than your typical actor.

[Meadow Skipper]

…I get the point, but does that logic only apply to guns and not any other hazard in a movie that can possibly be created by an actor following the script and trusting the instructions of actual safety experts? To me that says in New Mexico they don't want movies made with scenes that depict actors participating in potentially unsafe behaviors.

I don’t know how much weight this carries in the prosecution, but Baldwin is a producer of that movie.

Crimes too- if a propmaster accidently sources a brick of real cocaine I suppose the actors should not get a free pass either- their possession is on film after all.

Kind of a stretch there.

There are certainly lessons to be learned and improvements to be made here, but I don't think declaring actors ultimately responsible for weapon or any other aspect of movie set safety is going to help matters.

Again, that’s kind of a broad brush. I’d say that it should be decided on a case-by-case basis. And again, Baldwin’s a producer, so that may be a factor. (ie. He was a HMFIC, head motherfucker in charge)

One other factor that may reflect on Baldwin is that, as I mentioned, the set was a shitshow. I’ve heard and read that people felt the set was so dangerous and heedless of the crew’s safety that some people either walked out or were planning to. /rumors

[bennymac]

I think based on what info is readily available in the media around this case that it's understandable he's been charged - and it will take the courts to sort out his role and responsibility - both from being a producer and from being the person holding and pointing the gun.

I don't get the "oh it's a gun in his hand he is therefore 100% guilty - it's that simple - no exceptions"

And being a "producer" can mean everything between being the top of the chain of command making all the decisions - down to being nothing more than a figurehead listed in the credits just cause you're famous and you're hanging around set watching the dailies. The court can sort that out as well.

[MakersTeleMark]

It's a jury, and I don't care how much of a db he is, he will walk.

[Ted Striker]

Agree

[Adolf Allerbush]

I think based on what info is readily available in the media around this case that it's understandable he's been charged - and it will take the courts to sort out his role and responsibility - both from being a producer and from being the person holding and pointing the gun.

I don't get the "oh it's a gun in his hand he is therefore 100% guilty - it's that simple - no exceptions"

And being a "producer" can mean everything between being the top of the chain of command making all the decisions - down to being nothing more than a figurehead listed in the credits just cause you're famous and you're hanging around set watching the dailies. The court can sort that out as well.

By my count there are 12 folks with "producer" in their title: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1100107...?ref_=tt_cl_sm but 6 that are only "producers".

[AK47bp]

Can we get 30 Rock back?


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[leroy jenkins]

He made fun of Cono's president.

Baldwin is also a huge gaping asshole. And it was also a shitty low budget film with poorly trained armorers. Only one of these should be pursued in a legal case - the armorer and her failings.

Shouldn't there be some sort of blame for hiring an unqualified unlicensed armorer?

[leroy jenkins]

An actor trusts the set was framed right then slams a door and it collapses on someone's head. Or flips a light switch that electrocutes a crew member.

All kinds of analogies here- the sticking point seems to be if guns are somehow special.

the only way i see them being special is varying degrees of difficulty of intentionally causing any of those accidents, as in murder. If thats ruled out due to no motive etc then they seem to be the same, except for the fact that a gun is far easier to check for safety than a car or house, and it should be a habit for anyone handling one to know whether or not it is loaded.

Oddly enough I've had friends who were sorta anti gun but sort of curious and wanted to at least try shooting a gun, but it was like their disdain of gun culture cus guns are scary also become a disdain for the rules of properly handling a gun as part of gun culture. I get the feeling hollywood might be similar.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

Shouldn't there be some sort of blame for hiring an unqualified unlicensed armorer?

Now we're getting somewhere. Was the armorer known to be unqualified yet hired anyway? Was due diligence not carried out? Did the armorer misrepresent her quals? Did she know chain of custody was compromised?

These are all legit questions.

As for unsafe shit show productions, that just described about 99% of projects.

[altasnob]

It's a jury, and I don't care how much of a db he is, he will walk.

No jury verdict is a sure thing but I can't imagine they convict Baldwin for this.

[old goat]

I guess all these actors need to check the brake lines of any vehicle they drive on set.

And a doctor in an ER running a code better draw up their own medications and inject them into the patient themselves.

There are degrees of responsibility. The court will decide his as a producer. As an actor he can easily defend himself - the whole purpose of an armourer on set is gun safety. You guys seem to think any actor who handles a gun needs to be trained to the same level as the armourer. Where does the need for redundancy end?

And again with any directors. And any producer.

Fuck it let's get craft services trained up.

Checking the brake lines is not taught in driver ed.* Knowing if a firearm you are handling is loaded is gun safety 101. Is it unreasonable to expect everyone on a set who handles a gun to have gun safety course?

Doctors don't injecct drugs in a code. Most drugs used in codes are in single dose syringes or cartridges with the name easily visible. And yes, if a nurse hands anotther nurse a medication to inject the second nurse is responsible for checking the label. People have died because someone grabbed the wrong drug from a crash cart in an emergency. Nurses have lost their licenses over this kind of mistake. I don't know if there has ever been a criminal charge brought in such a case. In none emergency situations the drug and the patient's wrist band are both scanned and have to agree before the drug is given.

Baldwin is charged with involuntary manslaughter--that means he didn't intend to kill anyone and that there were actions he could have taken that would have prevented the death, and I think it means his conduct was not so outrageous as to be voluntary manslaughter. But I'm no lawyer--maybe the lawyers here can tell me if I understand correctly. I won't argue whether or not his conduct fits the charge and of course even if it does I agree he may well get a not guilty verdict. If he is found guilty I doubt he will do any jail time--probably probation and maybe a fine he can easily pay. But I stand by my belief that he should have checked the gun when it was handed to him. And rather than being excused because he's an actor on a movie set--the fact that the gun could potentially go through many hands and that the actor has no way to know if the gun was secure, was ever checked by the armorer, was even a gun that belonged on the set, makes it even more important that he check. if the gun is loaded with live ammo.

* Maybe checking the brakes should be part of driver ed. My wife had her brakes replaced, drove out of the shop and immediately rear ended someone stopped at the red light at the corner where the shop was because the brakes failed--they had bled the air.. The shop owner's insurance paid.
'

[leroy jenkins]

Last thing you want is an actor poking around under the hood of a hero car or into a firearm. They're actors ffs, monkeys have more common sense and intelligence than your typical actor.

KNowing if a firearm is loaded isn't poking around in it. Its like remembering to put your seatbelt on. Or like remembering to shut the drivers door after you get in before driving away.

[leroy jenkins]

Now we're getting somewhere. Was the armorer known to be unqualified yet hired anyway? Was due diligence not carried out? Did the armorer misrepresent her quals? Did she know chain of custody was compromised?

These are all legit questions.

As for unsafe shit show productions, that just described about 99% of projects.

I've heard unlicensed. I guess others are licensed. I guess theres no requirement for that though. I don't really know though this is a matter of idle speculation on the internet for me I haven't done much research.

[CarlMega]

The way that shot was positioned, I'm given the impression that it was meant to look authentic, head on and close up. As in, see something that looks like a round(s) in the cylinder. How are authentic looking dummy rounds identified from live rounds? Is that something an actor can easily discern from inspection?

I mean...movies. Meant to look realistic.

[Ted Striker]

Last thing you want is an actor poking around under the hood of a hero car or into a firearm. They're actors ffs, monkeys have more common sense and intelligence than your typical actor.

[Cono Este]

Don’t forget, he lied. He said he never pulled the trigger. I’m not a single action expert, but the prosecutor was waiting on the FBI, and they said said that was impossible.

I like the guy, he was hard working, I hope he doesn’t serve time, but someone lost a wife and mother.

[SumJongGuy]

Who ACTUALLY LOADED THE GUN? Did they ever determine/disclose that? The fact they couldn't pinpoint where the fucking real bullets came from supports High Country's "shitshow" desctiption.

[Meadow Skipper]

One more factor: the assistant director handed the gun to Baldwin and called out “cold gun” indicating it didn’t have live rounds in it. The AD copped a plea, ending up with probation and community service. I’m sort of scratching my head about that.

I don’t know for certain if armorers are certified or licensed, but she was inexperienced and the daughter of a well-known and highly experienced armorer.

https://wapo.st/3iSskH0
https://www.iatselocal52.org/Applica...pArmorerJD.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_master

And yeah, Baldwin lied, flat out, about pulling the trigger.

[CarlMega]

And yeah, Baldwin lied, flat out, about pulling the trigger.

It kills me to be carrying AB's water here... but first hand account/eyewitness testimony is just terrible and unreliable. So did he knowingly lie in a (bad) attempt to save his skin? Or is his brain and recall in traumatic event mode where it's grappling with killing a person?

Fucked if I know. I can say I empathize with AB's (or any actor's) position here. "Cold gun!". Then the next thing you know...bang. Blood. What. The. Fuck. Happened? Shit goes sideways. Why the fuck is there a live round on set? how? why? who? I'd be in crisis mode.

And I can see the actor being both somewhat negligent and also a victim. What sort of command fuck up has to happen where an actor is put in a position where they can kill someone? My mind boggles.

[Cono Este]

What are the details. Were they shooting a scene, was he rehearsing? Because they have rules even with prop guns, like not aiming at people and using camera angles. Sounds like the “it just went off” cameras were not rolling. So he was fucking around with the gun for no good reason then.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

my god have you ever watched a movie or TV show?