Atomic Mimic Professional Liner

[onenerdykid]

ONG,

Top work on the development and educating us all. Thank you.

If I were to purchase a Redster CS 130 with Profesional liner could I also use that same liner in a Hawx XTD 130? (I know this is unusual - but I have a specific regular family day/ tour home application for this).

I know clogs and shell fit between the 2 are quite different (96 vs 98 and heal pocket) - but actually having a slightly looser fit in the XTD is okay for less performance/ more comfort and touring.

Specific question: is the Profesional Liner for the Redster CS different to that for the Hawx in terms of last and volume of the actual liner (beyond the tongue)?

Thank you in advance.

In shells that aren't modified too much, I would be skeptical as the last shapes are so different in the mid- & rear foot areas. But I haven't tried it, so I can't really say for sure. I would imagine it will be looser, but if you're ok with that then rock on! You and Greg can let me know how it goes

Re: question - yes they are different. Redster liners (besides using different tongues) are made with thinner microfiber outers (the leather looking stuff on the outside) vs. the Hawx versions and are lasted differently. Not just width but instep height, length, etc. Redster liners are made for lower volume boots and Hawx liners are made for "higher volume than race" boots.

[MTslackcountry]

In shells that aren't modified too much, I would be skeptical as the last shapes are so different in the mid- & rear foot areas. But I haven't tried it, so I can't really say for sure. I would imagine it will be looser, but if you're ok with that then rock on! You and Greg can let me know how it goes

Re: question - yes they are different. Redster liners (besides using different tongues) are made with thinner microfiber outers (the leather looking stuff on the outside) vs. the Hawx versions and are lasted differently. Not just width but instep height, length, etc. Redster liners are made for lower volume boots and Hawx liners are made for "higher volume than race" boots.

I have both the redster cs professional and the hawx XTD 130 in 26.5. I just tried the CS pro liner in the Hawx XTD 130 shell and it did not fit well. It was too tight up and down in toe box and really loose side to side in the ankle as well as heel. Really shitty fit. ************Its the best liner Ive ever had when paired with the boot it was intended for********

I plan to take my XTD to europe next season for a couple weeks as it is much more suited to walking around than the CS boot. I plan to pair it with the intuition pro tongue. I currently ski the xtd with the intuition tour wrap.

[gregL]

I have both the redster cs professional and the hawx XTD 130 in 26.5. I just tried the CS pro liner in the Hawx XTD 130 shell and it did not fit well. It was too tight up and down in toe box and really loose side to side in the ankle as well as heel. Really shitty fit. ************Its the best liner Ive ever had when paired with the boot it was intended for********

I plan to take my XTD to europe next season for a couple weeks as it is much more suited to walking around than the CS boot. I plan to pair it with the intuition pro tongue. I currently ski the xtd with the intuition tour wrap.

Ultra XTD or Prime? Did you heat the Professional liner as recommended for Mimics before you stuck it in?

[MTslackcountry]

Ultra XTD or Prime? Did you heat the Professional liner as recommended for Mimics before you stuck it in?

My 2022 CS pro liner was foam injected molded per exact atomic instructuions for my 2022 CS pro 130 shells. I took it out and tried it in my 2021 hawx 130 xtd touring boots. The fit was poor.

[gregL]

My 2022 CS pro liner was foam injected molded per exact atomic instructuions for my 2022 CS pro 130 shells. I took it out and tried it in my 2021 hawx 130 xtd touring boots. The fit was poor.

Hawx Ultra XTD or Hawx Prime XTD?

[MTslackcountry]

Ultra xtd.

[gregL]

I suspect if you try to swap already injected liners between these two boots without any mods or heat, there'll be some slop, as you note.

My experience isn't typical, because I work as a bootfitter and have access to all the tools - I punched and ground the Redster CS to about its limit to fit my foot before heat molding the liner and injecting it. Then I did the same to the Hawx Ultra XTD shell, so they were very close to the same shape, at least according to my foot. Then I heated the Professional liner again before I dropped it in the Hawx. They work great; wish I had another pair so I wouldn't have to switch back and forth.

FWIW, if I walked into a shop and someone saw my feet, they'd reach straight for a Hawx Magna - my right foot measures out between 114mm and 121mm depending on the day and the type of digital scanner used . . .

[chill winston]

Does anyone know who might fit these liners in Tahoe? I’m a few years into my Hawx Ultra XTDs and the old stock liners are packed out and toast. Never liked the liners anyway tbh and these mimics look like they could give the boots new life. Thx.

[Eluder]

Is there a delay on these liners this year?

I ordered some 25.5s last spring and am being told maybe in January....

[ASP]

Little bit off topic but does anyone know where I can get a redster cs professional in the Pacific Northwest?

[SacTo]

Is there a delay on these liners this year?

I ordered some 25.5s last spring and am being told maybe in January....

Got mine at Best Fit Boots!
Great service and locally owned and operated-good chance the owner is gonna be the one fitting you.

[tenB]

Little bit off topic but does anyone know where I can get a redster cs professional in the Pacific Northwest?

Any shop that carries Atomic should be able to order directly from Atomic. I don’t know any shop that stocks the redster in the pnw.

[nyskirat]

ONK, question for ya.

As someone who has tried almost everything to remove instep pressure from my Salomon S/RACE 140 plug boot (liner surgery on the tongue, grinding down a few MM off the boot board, low-volume footbeds, etc.), would the Redster Professional Liner w/ the HV tongue (I think I read that's the tongue that actually takes up the least amount of volume) be worth trying?

[onenerdykid]

ONK, question for ya.

As someone who has tried almost everything to remove instep pressure from my Salomon S/RACE 140 plug boot (liner surgery on the tongue, grinding down a few MM off the boot board, low-volume footbeds, etc.), would the Redster Professional Liner w/ the HV tongue (I think I read that's the tongue that actually takes up the least amount of volume) be worth trying?

Yes, that tongue creates the highest volume fit, with the most space over the instep. For the current year (22/23), make sure you get the Redster TI/STI version of the liner, not the CS version. The TI/STI version will fit exactly into your shell.

[Dee Hubbs]

Just received my High Volume (thinnest) tongues in the mail, I'm excited to see how they feel in my current liners. I have a stupid high instep and its always a pressure point issue for me.
I've been in the Professional liners for over a year and love the hold and support they provide. I've skied nothing but foamed liners for 20+ years, so the foaming process was something I was use to.
The thickness between tongues is not very obvious, its more subtle, but I know how a little material makes a huge difference. I typically have to cut and remove any extra elastic or webbing from the instep of any boots I have ever owned.
I'm using the Hawk Professional Liner, (now) High Volume tongue, and Professional Dual Strap on Lange XT3s.
I'm super happy that Atomic is offering aftermarket options and parts for these liners.



Once I ski these a bit I'll report back if they are much different than the Medium volume tongues.

[tenB]

I went the other direction, swapping the stock medium volume tongue for the thicker LV tongue. After skiing it for a handful of days to break in, it is only thicker on the top of the foot. The shin padding is identical. I was hoping it would be thicker top to bottom.

[singlesline]

OK, I got two days on mine. I have the HAWX Mimic Pro in a current Cochise 120mm.

I am also two days in on mine (did they show up in the same shipment as yours at Great Northern?).

Heel/ankle feels completely locked beyond anything I've felt before both horizontally and vertically. Power transfer feels good although I was hoping they would stiffen my boots up and if anything it feels like they have become a pinch softer. They went into Head Vector Evo 110s which are obviously not the stiffest boot (I was desperate for new boots late season in Whistler a few years ago, that's what they had left in stock that fit my foot, and the price was right)--but they've been good to my feet and skied stiffer than the flex number would indicate.

I was worried about having some forefoot slop after fitting them in the shop. Combination of 100mm last and prior width punches around the little toe made it feel like the liner wasn't quite filling the gap. But on the mountain, especially with slightly thicker socks, it feels fine. More precise than my prior packed out liners (and no clamping down buckles to try and compensate)--hopefully they stay that way. Obviously wouldn't be a problem in a new boot as I might not have needed those punches with this liner.

Feels a little colder than my old liner. I don't usually have cold toes, but I felt a chill and temps weren't particularly low.

We'll see how they wear in. Unfortunately given the stiffness they probably aren't going to buy me as much time in these shells as I'd hoped--I'm not in a rush, but I'll probably be keeping an eye on what shops still have in stock come end-of-season clearance time rather than waiting until next year to start shopping.

[bioicon]

Does anyone know if the amount of heat from pre heating the Pro liners before injecting the foam will affect how much the foam will expand at all? Or if that's done only to make the outer panels of the liner to mould perfectly to the shape of the shell?
I've had several Strolz and Sidas Injection liners done without any mentioning about pre heating. But some have blown air into the bladders in advance to make sure nothing is sticking together.

A few weeks ago I had a pair of Mimic Pro liners fitted. Unfortunately one of the liners did not fill up on the inside at all. And the other one was very loose. Unfortunately the bootfitter forgot to hear you the liners according to the instructions.
However after my years of experience with foaming processes I think the fact that I have low volume feet and my size 27,5 is right on the (for low volume feet, wrong) end of the very corse scale that bridges over several sizes without taking volume of feet and volume of shell in consideration.

The shells are Dalbello Krypton's witch I have used along with Strolz liners previously several times with various success. On time the bottles exploded due to the outlet hoses was blocked by the Cabrio tongue (easily avoided by a pair of thick nails). Another liner had an outlet hose come loose, gluing the liner to the shell.
Most liners have been overly tight in the beginning, and one pair was so tight they could not be skiied in since both feet went completely numb.
Intuition liners doesn't fill in out the voids enoug around my bony feer with high insteps.
So the Mimic Pro seems like it could be the middle way combo for decent performance along with comfort.

And inputs on this world be greatly appreciated


Sent fra min moto g(60)s via Tapatalk

[Quandary]

I would say they boot fitter owes you another pair of liners and a do over. The Mimic pro liner is a combination of moldable material and injectable material. So the liner needs to be heated like a traditional mold, then put on, buckled to a "medium" tension then injected. You will need to tell the boot fitter when to stop. For example my left foot is bigger than my right consequently the right foot required a fair bit more foam. You shouldn't by guided solely by the markings on the foam injector tubes.

[onenerdykid]

Does anyone know if the amount of heat from pre heating the Pro liners before injecting the foam will affect how much the foam will expand at all? Or if that's done only to make the outer panels of the liner to mould perfectly to the shape of the shell?
I've had several Strolz and Sidas Injection liners done without any mentioning about pre heating. But some have blown air into the bladders in advance to make sure nothing is sticking together.

A few weeks ago I had a pair of Mimic Pro liners fitted. Unfortunately one of the liners did not fill up on the inside at all. And the other one was very loose. Unfortunately the bootfitter forgot to hear you the liners according to the instructions.
However after my years of experience with foaming processes I think the fact that I have low volume feet and my size 27,5 is right on the (for low volume feet, wrong) end of the very corse scale that bridges over several sizes without taking volume of feet and volume of shell in consideration.

The shells are Dalbello Krypton's witch I have used along with Strolz liners previously several times with various success. On time the bottles exploded due to the outlet hoses was blocked by the Cabrio tongue (easily avoided by a pair of thick nails). Another liner had an outlet hose come loose, gluing the liner to the shell.
Most liners have been overly tight in the beginning, and one pair was so tight they could not be skiied in since both feet went completely numb.
Intuition liners doesn't fill in out the voids enoug around my bony feer with high insteps.
So the Mimic Pro seems like it could be the middle way combo for decent performance along with comfort.

And inputs on this world be greatly appreciated


Sent fra min moto g(60)s via Tapatalk

Quandary is right - a Mimic Professional liner needs to be heated due to the heat moldable Mimic material in the ankle, heel, tongue and carbon cuff. It's not necessarily for the foam portion of the process, but it's a system and it needs to be done according to our process. Appling the Strolz or Sidas etc. process to our system won't yield the correct results.

[bioicon]

Thanks for all the advices. There is a new pair of liners waiting for me at no extra cost, so that's no problem. However the bootfitter is hesitant to go further then the 27,5 mark in case the heat does any difference when it comes to expansion of the foam. I've asked him to double check that with Atomic since it doesn't make sense to me since 2 component foams and glue chemical reactions usually produce a noticible amount of heat by is own.


Sent fra min moto g(60)s via Tapatalk

[onenerdykid]

Thanks for all the advices. There is a new pair of liners waiting for me at no extra cost, so that's no problem. However the bootfitter is hesitant to go further then the 27,5 mark in case the heat does any difference when it comes to expansion of the foam. I've asked him to double check that with Atomic since it doesn't make sense to me since 2 component foams and glue chemical reactions usually produce a noticible amount of heat by is own.


Sent fra min moto g(60)s via Tapatalk

You can safely go in between your actual mondopoint setting and the next one without worry. The heat from the liner won't cause any adverse reactions with the PU foam compounds. What doesn't need to happen and shouldn't happen is heating the foam cartridge. That should be at room temperature.

[Quandary]

Thanks for all the advices. There is a new pair of liners waiting for me at no extra cost, so that's no problem. However the bootfitter is hesitant to go further then the 27,5 mark in case the heat does any difference when it comes to expansion of the foam. I've asked him to double check that with Atomic since it doesn't make sense to me since 2 component foams and glue chemical reactions usually produce a noticible amount of heat by is own.


Sent fra min moto g(60)s via Tapatalk

FWIW I think you need a new boot fitter.

[GoldenBC]

I went the other direction, swapping the stock medium volume tongue for the thicker LV tongue. After skiing it for a handful of days to break in, it is only thicker on the top of the foot. The shin padding is identical. I was hoping it would be thicker top to bottom.

@onk is this true? I was really hoping it would be the entire tongue, or more specifically, the bottom of the shin so it would push your ankle back.

[onenerdykid]

@onk is this true? I was really hoping it would be the entire tongue, or more specifically, the bottom of the shin so it would push your ankle back.

The MV and LV are the same thickness in the shin area. The LV is 3mm thicker over the instep and into the upward radius of the shell's throat, so it does push your foot rearward a bit.

We originally went 3mm thicker top to bottom but it just caused weird fit issues, even for chicken legs, and pushed people more upright than they wanted.

As an FYI - the MV tongue is noticeably thicker & firmer than anything in our standard Hawx range.