Sooth Ski: Comparing Skis with Measured Data (2100+ skis!!)

[J. Barron DeJong]

Ahaha, of course! Happy to measure any skis that Marshal send our way and return them unharmed.

But with most of Heritage models being already sold out, I am not sure if that will happen.

He’s only got one functioning arm right now! Surely he’s not flying thru his hand tunes right now and could spare a few pairs to send your way.

[alude]

Just added about 300 skis from 22-23... enjoy! More coming soon...

Total skis from 22-23: 576
Total # of skis: 3546

[alude]

Just added about 350 skis from 22-23... However, I also pulled out the torsion stiffness measurements we had for about 270 of them. We noticed some weird measurements in torsion associated with some mechanical problems with one of the machine during one measurement session. I pulled out all these measurements until we can confirm them. If we can't fix the measurement, we will re-measure (we already did so for about 60 skis). In the meantime, you can still enjoy all geometric, mass and bending stiffness measurements for these skis.


Total skis from 22-23: 912
Total # of skis: 3882

[alude]

I finally had the time to look at the torsional stiffness measurements for these 270 skis that we had doubt about. We compared the measurements with unchanged models from previous years, and we think that we can further narrow the mechanical issues to less than 100 skis. So you can now get full data for about 170 more skis... in that bunch there are many Stoeckli, K2, Black Crows and Line skis.

[alude]

FWIW, I measured my Heritage Lab C132 190 before mounting them. It is now in the comparator... Just wish I was out west skiing them!

[Westcoaster]

Pretty cool project for us data nerds. Appreciate it.

[tupp_]

I'd like your opinions on taper angle.

I have always had bad experiences with pintails >20mm delta between tip and tail, and recently saw the taper angle metric on Sooth. I haven't looked at all my skis, but do see more progressive (low taper angle) skis being launched every year (sender free 110 as an example).

[alude]

I'd like your opinions on taper angle.

I have always had bad experiences with pintails >20mm delta between tip and tail, and recently saw the taper angle metric on Sooth. I haven't looked at all my skis, but do see more progressive (low taper angle) skis being launched every year (sender free 110 as an example).

Sorry, I haven't thought much about that. Can you describe what you didn't like with pintails?

Let me also know if you want me to investigate some relations beyond what you can do in the comparator. For example, you can see in the comparator that there is a pretty strong correlation between taper angle and setback. This is not too surprising, given they are both common features of progressive skis, but at the same time other features are not necessarily strongly correlated (e.g., tail rocker). I think the correlation might come from the fact that a pintail shape will move the center of the radius, which is often where many ski designers put the mountpoint (I think, or move it according to that position, I can't remember exactly what Marshall said in another thread).

[alude]

We just added a bunch of skis from RMU! Enjoy comparing them...

[utagonian]

Be cool to compare all the brands of 165cm FIS Sl skis.

There has been a lot of wondering on the protest thread about the new Praxis Protest vs the shape that lasted 15 years.

[HukuTa_KydecHuk]

We just added a bunch of skis from RMU! Enjoy comparing them...

You made an awesome work with this app. It has so much useful information that nobody else provides. However, some stats are strange and are kinda misleading. For example: average bending stiffness. At first I thought that's an interesting way to look at the ski. But when I tried comparing skis that I know and I personally skied it gave a very strange information. Somehow average bending stiffness for Atomic Bentchetler 184 is higher than Head Kore 111 184. This is a non-sense, as Kore are SO much stiffer overall. I realize that stats are gathered using automated machines but maybe something is incorrect with the interpretation of the data...

[alude]

Be cool to compare all the brands of 165cm FIS Sl skis.

There has been a lot of wondering on the protest thread about the new Praxis Protest vs the shape that lasted 15 years.

We are happy to measure anything that is made available to us.

Can you make a list of the FIS ski of interest? I could try contacting the different brands...

[alude]

You made an awesome work with this app. It has so much useful information that nobody else provides. However, some stats are strange and are kinda misleading. For example: average bending stiffness. At first I thought that's an interesting way to look at the ski. But when I tried comparing skis that I know and I personally skied it gave a very strange information. Somehow average bending stiffness for Atomic Bentchetler 184 is higher than Head Kore 111 184. This is a non-sense, as Kore are SO much stiffer overall. I realize that stats are gathered using automated machines but maybe something is incorrect with the interpretation of the data...

I totally agree. I do not like the average stiffness, but most people want less information rather than more. That is why we added the average value.

What I like to look at are the stiffness distributions. But even that would not be quite enough to completely figure out a ski. You need to look at the whole picture (full geometry, mass, stiffnesses, but also who is skiing the ski and the snow) and more often than not, that means looking at the pressure distribution along the base/edge... That is a simpler picture, but much harder to understand for most people.

A single number work really well when you have skis that are not wildly different from each other, a little bit like when you only change one variable at a time in an experiment. In between the single stiffness number and the distribution graphs, we have the 5-points data to give you a quick reference. Any idea on what would be more intuitive?

If you look at either the stiffness distribution graphs or the 5-points data (here), you can see that the tip of the Head Kore 111 is about twice as stiff as the BC, and a good part of the front is stiffer. The Kore is also much stiffer in torsion (50% on average, 100% in the tip). You would feel the difference on snow (but would hardly be able to feel that by hand).

When you say that the Kore is SO much stiffer, is it from hand flexing it? If so, you could try flexing only the back part to see how they compare. They should feel similar. You could do the same with the front parts and the Kore should now feel stiffer. When flexing the full length of the ski by hand, you end up "measuring" mostly the tip and tail flex. The center section is generally so stiff compared to the tip that anyone would have difficulty properly "measuring" it by hand (and you can't really isolate that section). One thing to consider also is the shape of the tip/tail when hand flexing, and how it is interacting with the ground and with your hand. Different tip/tail shape will make you feel the flex differently if you are not careful in how you apply forces to the ski.

Does that all make more sense? I am happy to discuss more any other data that you feel is non-sense...

[utagonian]

Wow. Cool!

Fischer
Head
Volkl
Atomic
Stockli
Nordica
Rossignol (same as Dynastar so you only need one or the other)

165cm (men’s size)

Not just for racing. A lot of people free ski these. They really are good. They all have different feels and there is a lot of debate about attributes of each.

Don’t bother with the non-FIS versions.

[alude]

I just added about 250 skis in the comparator, so we are now have 4150 total. Enjoy!

FYI, we just measured about 800 skis at SkiEssentials last weekend, so there are about 550 more skis coming very soon. These guys are great, encourage them if you can.

We also have some FIS skis from Stoeckli in the pipeline (hoping to have more companies too), as well as more models from Scott.

[alude]

Total skis from 23-24: 615
Total # of skis: 4503

[alude]

A few additions, mostly long skis and skis that Scott Sports sent us:
Number of '23-24 skis: 714
Total number of skis: 4601

A few more to come...

[alude]

I just added a few more skis, mostly some with convex tip and/or tail, so a bunch of Atomic, Armada and Line (including some from '22-23 that we didn't have time to process last year).


Number of '23-24 skis: 803
Total number of skis: 4723

[Tjaardbreeuwer]

@alude, thanks for the great work, it’s a really great resource.

[alude]

Be cool to compare all the brands of 165cm FIS Sl skis.

We spent some time at Stoeckli last fall and measured a few of their skis that are harder to find near us and that includes some FIS skis: WRT, WRT Pro, SC, SL, SL FIS, GS, GS FIS, Orea, ... They are now in our online comparator. Enjoy!

A few other brands are coming.

[alude]

I just started adding 2024-25 skis to the comparator... 206 so far. Most of them should be there within 1-2 weeks! Total is now 4951 skis.


Enjoy!

[cat in january]

Thank you for doing this.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Giggety.

Love what you’re doing.

[Vitamin I]

Thanks alude!

.

[alude]

Now at 410 skis measured in 2024-25. Bunch of Mantras, V-Werks, QSTs, Reckoners, Enforcers and Rangers. Total of 5155 skis.

Also corrected a little bug that made the 23-24 skis display longer in the graphs.