20 Years Later.....09/11

[old goat]

There was an interview on CBS the other night with 2 AF fighter pilots--a man and a woman--who scrambled F16's to intercept flight 93 en route to attack the Capitol. They didn't have time to load weapons--their plane was to crash into the airliner, one aimed at the cockpit, one at the tail. They were saved by the passengers who overcame the hijackers and crashed the plane.

The Frontline show drew a pretty straight line between our reaction to 9/11 and the attack on the Capitol on Jan. 6. There's plenty of truth to that although obviously it's not nearly that simple, and the line starts a lot farther back. There are a lot of victims of 9/11 --not just those who died that day but many who were nowhere near NYC or DC, nowhere near the US, many not even born.

[bendtheski]

Anyone else find it ironic that all that paper survived while the buildings completely disintegrated?

I rode my bike to work in Northvale, NJ that morning, something I never could do during the 11 years I worked in Manhattan. I remember thinking what a gorgeous day it was, and how lucky I was to be able to ride to work now. I was met at the door by a co-worker who said a plane had crashed into the WTC. I was working at a post-production facility, with a satellite earth station next door. When I walked onto the production floor, images of the smoking north tower filled every monitor. We watched horrified, like everyone else did as the second plane hit, people fell or jumped, and buildings collapsed. The ride home was surreal that day. The weather was still perfect, but I barely noticed.

One of our clients acquired every frame of 9/11 footage they could get their hands on, and brought it to us for processing. I didn't think much about it at the time, but after a month or so, most of us at the facility had probably seen enough carnage for a lifetime.

My family is from Staten Island, and I grew up in NJ and watched the towers being built. My dad worked in the Empire State Building, and as a kid, I thought the towers were ugly, and was jealous that their height exceeded my dad's building. The Sunday after 9/11, I rode my mountain bike to a ridgeline in Ringwood to see an unobstructed view of the New York skyline, with the smoke column still rising from ground zero. The sight in direct view had a greater impact than all the images I'd seen on a TV screen.

I've never attended a 9/11 observance, and find that I'm generally angry every 9/11 anniversary. As others have expressed, the NY skyline etched in my memory is forever altered, and I get angry with myself for not thinking more about the victims. I guess for me, the buildings themselves represented something more than steel and concrete, and for some reason compete with the loss of life for my emotional scarring. I visited ground zero in 2003, at the height of an anxiety and depression dominated chapter of my life. In the same year I would abandon a recently purchased condo, and a 20 year career in broadcasting.

Before 2004 I would move to Vermont, meet my now wife and have the season of a lifetime at Sugarbush after skiing Killington for way too long. Within 4 years we would move to sunny CO, and a year later I entered the 9-1-1 field. I now co-manage the center. Growth through pain I suppose. I feel like the events of 9/11 and the couple of years after were somehow intertwined, and brought a number of buried issues to the surface to finally be dealt with or laid to rest. I definitely don't regret the growth part, but man, the whole country could have done without the pain, then and since.

I hope everyone finds a little piece of joy in some aspect of this day. The wife and I have been watching Inside 9/11 all week, and while it's gut-wrenching at times, I think it humanizes events in a way I haven't seen before. It also served as a good reminder of the strength of the human spirit and our ability to pull together as a country towards a common goal. I'm going to find joy in happy hour on the porch with wife and doggehs at the end of my shift.

[Benny Profane]

I turned on my TV once, and immediately turned it off. It wont go back on for maybe 48 hours. The stream of bullshit was like white noise with the dial turned to 11. But then I turned on the internet after a 40 mile road ride and found this. I want to shoot somebody.

https://twitter.com/FiteTV/status/14...914509313?s=20

[bendtheski]

I turned on my TV once, and immediately turned it off. It wont go back on for maybe 48 hours. The stream of bullshit was like white noise with the dial turned to 11. But then I turned on the internet after a 40 mile road ride and found this. I want to shoot somebody.

https://twitter.com/FiteTV/status/14...914509313?s=20

Seriously, fuck that guy. I feel like where I grew up, and working in Manhattan through the 80's has given me a unique appreciation for the shit-heel potential of the man, but really, none of his actions over the past 6 years should come as a surprise to anyone capable of critical thought.

[uburoi]

My Aunt and Uncle were on their way into New York with friends that morning. They were stopped outside the city and told to turn around. Got this photo on their way back out. Never Forget.

[Skidog]

I turned on my TV once, and immediately turned it off. It wont go back on for maybe 48 hours. The stream of bullshit was like white noise with the dial turned to 11. But then I turned on the internet after a 40 mile road ride and found this. I want to shoot somebody.

https://twitter.com/FiteTV/status/14...914509313?s=20

It's sad and repetitive, but I continue to watch them all..

This year there was a 6 part series on history or like channel..had lots of footage and interviews I had never seen. 1 part was brutal with the emergency workers in the lobby of north tower, and every 15 seconds or so they would hear a loud bang, really loud. They all knew what it was, and so do you all. They paused for a second or more each time. Just made me shiver.

The other footage I found very interesting. After north tower fell, they had a chopper up checking south..they were right where the hole from the plane was. There was no visible fire, just molten red...the metal was just glowing. Sure jet fuel alone can't melt steel, but a virtual incinerator sure does.

Like mentioned, the Towers, at least for me, were more than just concrete and steel, they were a symbol. I always thought the best "fuck you" to those that did this was to build 2 new towers, in the exact fucking spot, only 1 story higher. Instead I look at the freedom tower now, which is shit.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app

[AK47bp]

Watching people commit suicide on live daytime TV was surreal.

I’ll never forget that image in the paper of the businessman in his suit and tie holding his briefcase while free falling out of the tower.

Tough read

https://www.esquire.com/news-politic...man-tom-junod/

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Benny Profane]

Watching people commit suicide on live daytime TV was surreal.

I’ll never forget that image in the paper of the businessman in his suit and tie holding his briefcase while free falling out of the tower.

Tough read

https://www.esquire.com/news-politic...man-tom-junod/

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falling_Man_(novel)

[Ted Striker]

I always thought the best "fuck you" to those that did this was to build 2 new towers, in the exact fucking spot, only 1 story higher. Instead I look at the freedom tower now, which is shit.

Me too. And the new tower kinda looks like a hypodermic needle. But have you been to the memorial itself? IMO, it's very tasteful, and pictures don't do justice to how deep it feels when you're looking over the edge.

And if you're in the neighborhood, have a beer at O'Hara's (aka the firemen's bar)

[Skidog]

Me too. And the new tower kinda looks like a hypodermic needle. But have you been to the memorial itself? IMO, it's very tasteful, and pictures don't do justice to how deep it feels when you're looking over the edge.

And if you're in the neighborhood, have a beer at O'Hara's (aka the firemen's bar)

I have not been. Too many emotions, and actually this morning when they did the Ariel view I was even more pissed to see the 2 holes in the earth where something very special, to me, once stood.

I understand the need for the memorial, but it could've gone anywhere on the site. 2 new buildings would've sent the strongest, "we will not back down" message IMHO.

I will make it one day, I am sure. I avoid it when I am headed there even if it means I drive. I can't tell if it's hurt, angers, sadness, or a combination of all, but it's hard for me. NYC held a special place in my heart, pre 9/11, it will never feel the same again.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app

[Benny Profane]

It's one big tourist trap.

[AK47bp]

I thought the waterfall memorial at ground zero is beautiful. The mist floats around in a manner that reminded me of the spirits of the dead.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[bendtheski]

It's sad and repetitive, but I continue to watch them all..

This year there was a 6 part series on history or like channel..had lots of footage and interviews I had never seen. 1 part was brutal with the emergency workers in the lobby of north tower, and every 15 seconds or so they would hear a loud bang, really loud. They all knew what it was, and so do you all. They paused for a second or more each time. Just made me shiver.

The other footage I found very interesting. After north tower fell, they had a chopper up checking south..they were right where the hole from the plane was. There was no visible fire, just molten red...the metal was just glowing. Sure jet fuel alone can't melt steel, but a virtual incinerator sure does.

Like mentioned, the Towers, at least for me, were more than just concrete and steel, they were a symbol. I always thought the best "fuck you" to those that did this was to build 2 new towers, in the exact fucking spot, only 1 story higher. Instead I look at the freedom tower now, which is shit.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app

Our fire chief likes to post conspiracy theory bullshit on facebook about 9/11 being an undercover government demolition job so we'd have an excuse to go to war. OK, sure, but doesn't really explain the molten core you mention, or the engine 6 crew describing hearing the rapid succession of floors collapsing on each other, or the complete disintegration of everything but the paper. To me it stands to reason that once you had jet fuel ignited in the elevator shafts, you had one gigantic blast furnace capable of melting steel girders. The idea of the gub'mnt placing explosives throughout both towers undetected, fabricating the phone calls to loved ones from passengers on the hijacked planes, faking the tracing of the movements of the hijackers on previous flights/connections, coercing thousands of eye-witnesses and tampering with hours and hours of video footage demonstrating disintegration, not demolition is beyond absurd, it's an insult to every victim and rational thinking person on the planet. The Chief posted a photo of a blast of whatever coming out of the side of one tower as the floors above it collapsed (compressing the air in the floors below). The Engine 6 crew described it like being in a strong wind IIRC, the force of which knocked some of them over. I'll take their word over my Chief's on this one.

[Skidog]

Our fire chief likes to post conspiracy theory bullshit on facebook about 9/11 being an undercover government demolition job so we'd have an excuse to go to war. OK, sure, but doesn't really explain the molten core you mention, or the engine 6 crew describing hearing the rapid succession of floors collapsing on each other, or the complete disintegration of everything but the paper. To me it stands to reason that once you had jet fuel ignited in the elevator shafts, you had one gigantic blast furnace capable of melting steel girders. The idea of the gub'mnt placing explosives throughout both towers undetected, fabricating the phone calls to loved ones from passengers on the hijacked planes, faking the tracing of the movements of the hijackers on previous flights/connections, coercing thousands of eye-witnesses and tampering with hours and hours of video footage demonstrating disintegration, not demolition is beyond absurd, it's an insult to every victim and rational thinking person on the planet. The Chief posted a photo of a blast of whatever coming out of the side of one tower as the floors above it collapsed (compressing the air in the floors below). The Engine 6 crew described it like being in a strong wind IIRC, the force of which knocked some of them over. I'll take their word over my Chief's on this one.

Yeah I find them funny, and have "reviewed" a bunch of their theories. The easiest debunk is too many people would need to know to pull off an "inside job". Actually seeing close up footage of the glowing all bit seals it. Dumbasses, it wasnt just jet fuel it was sheetrock, cables, desks, paper, all enclosed. Like you said fucking blast furnace.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app

[bennymac]

No word yet from our resident “9/11 was an inside job” poster…

[bendtheski]

Yeah I find them funny, and have "reviewed" a bunch of their theories. The easiest debunk is too many people would need to know to pull off an "inside job". Actually seeing close up footage of the glowing all bit seals it. Dumbasses, it wasnt just jet fuel it was sheetrock, cables, desks, paper, all enclosed. Like you said fucking blast furnace.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app

Honestly, I don't think the actual perps believed they'd achieve the result they did.

[ZomblibulaX]

My mom was at the OBGYN that morning. She was having contractions when the first plane hit. I decided I didn't want to come into such a cold world and held out another 17 days.

My heart goes out to all of you who lived through and were personally effected by that day.

I kind of feel worse for your generation, honestly. 9/11 was horrific for everyone, and the whole world changed that very day, without question, but you've lived your whole life never knowing anything other than your country at war. That's a very scary thing.

I'll never forget where I was, who I was with, anything about that day. But what worries me is I have a hard time remembering what it was really like before we started singing songs about putting boots in people's asses, and beating each other over the head with the flag.

[riser4]

Our fire chief likes to post conspiracy theory bullshit on facebook about 9/11 being an undercover government demolition job so we'd have an excuse to go to war. OK, sure, but doesn't really explain the molten core you mention, or the engine 6 crew describing hearing the rapid succession of floors collapsing on each other, or the complete disintegration of everything but the paper. To me it stands to reason that once you had jet fuel ignited in the elevator shafts, you had one gigantic blast furnace capable of melting steel girders. The idea of the gub'mnt placing explosives throughout both towers undetected, fabricating the phone calls to loved ones from passengers on the hijacked planes, faking the tracing of the movements of the hijackers on previous flights/connections, coercing thousands of eye-witnesses and tampering with hours and hours of video footage demonstrating disintegration, not demolition is beyond absurd, it's an insult to every victim and rational thinking person on the planet. The Chief posted a photo of a blast of whatever coming out of the side of one tower as the floors above it collapsed (compressing the air in the floors below). The Engine 6 crew described it like being in a strong wind IIRC, the force of which knocked some of them over. I'll take their word over my Chief's on this one.

Instead of trying to coordinate all of the moving parts of faking it, it would be far easier get a friend to get a friend (Saudi and or Pakistani intelligence) to get someone already known to be into that kind of thing to do it. Plant a seed and watch it grow.

[Skidog]

Honestly, I don't think the actual perps believed they'd achieve the result they did.

How could they? Not like they tested it.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app

[Touring_Sedan]

These are a good listen......


https://storycorps.org/podcast/story...side-of-death/


https://player.fm/series/history-thi...e-on-the-water

[old goat]

Michelle Goldberg's piece in the NYT is the best thing I've read on 9/11.
I won't cut and paste it because it will likely piss off too many people and get this thread sent to poliass.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/09/o...ing-power.html

[Ted Striker]

I understand the need for the memorial, but it could've gone anywhere on the site. 2 new buildings would've sent the strongest, "we will not back down" message IMHO.

I was of the same mind, and avoided the site for a while, but one day I was walking by and there wasn't a crowd of tourists, so I decided to have a look. Standing there listening to the water falling while people searched for names, I let go of what I thought it should be and realized that what it is works too.

Yeah I find them funny, and have "reviewed" a bunch of their theories. The easiest debunk is too many people would need to know to pull off an "inside job".

Man, I had a lot of friends who thought it was an inside job, and I'd just posit this: so they've got to eliminate the guys that did it, otherwise it'll leak. Then they've got to take the guys who disappeared the first guys, and so on, and pretty soon you have a shampoo commercial.

[bendtheski]

Man, I had a lot of friends who thought it was an inside job, and I'd just posit this: so they've got to eliminate the guys that did it, otherwise it'll leak. Then they've got to take the guys who disappeared the first guys, and so on, and pretty soon you have a shampoo commercial.

I feel like this is a pretty age-specific reference, but sums it up nicely. Plus, if you’ve ever watched a controlled demolition, they sure as hell don’t glow then disintegrate.

I’m curious what percentage of the structure’s total mass was left/removed after collapse? I’m guessing it was significantly less than in a typical demolition, but tbh that’s pure speculation.



Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[stealurface831]

I kind of feel worse for your generation, honestly. 9/11 was horrific for everyone, and the whole world changed that very day, without question, but you've lived your whole life never knowing anything other than your country at war. That's a very scary thing.

I'll never forget where I was, who I was with, anything about that day. But what worries me is I have a hard time remembering what it was really like before we started singing songs about putting boots in people's asses, and beating each other over the head with the flag.

Only in the last 24 hours have I really started to give thought to the broader ways that day altered the course of the world I live in. I was never sheltered from the reality of what happened; My dad told me the story of Todd Beamer at a young age and I have always understood that my uncle who lived in Manhattan at the time was irreparably changed by what he saw, but only now have I come to understand that it wasn't just TSA, the Patriot Act, and really fucking long war that was set into motion that day. I was born into a nation with attitudes as infantile as I was. Aggressive foreign policy and vindictive sentiment defined the world I grew up in. How exactly that shit has and will effect the course of the world I live in, I don't really know, but I do know that the world I was born into was not the same as it was three weeks before and never will be again.

[Buzzworthy]

Leave it to several habitual threadcunters again to screw up a memorial thread.
Your parents failed hard.