Couloir ski (Down Lowdown alternative)?

[tang]

Looking for a new spring/summer couloir ski. I was set on the Down Lowdown 90 - which nailed my desired specs - but now I'm not sure if they're making skis this season. So now looking for some alternatives that hit all or most of the following...
- Light (say sub 1500 gr) since either carrying on pack, covering a bunch of distance or both... plus jump turns
- Stiff for edgehold in sketchy terrain
- Rockered tip and tail, so no hookiness and can reasonably handle the inevitable funky snow (heavy, runnels, etc)
- Long radius (say 25+) - ditto re above
I've got a zero g 85 that is surprisingly good (and waaay light) until snow gets heavy or funky. I'm fine with trading some weight to get some more versatility.
The zero g 95 is a step in the right direction, but nowhere near the Lowdown (177 length, 116-90-106, 29m radius, 3mm camber, 1300 gr)
Beast 98? BMT 90/94? I like alot about the BC Solis, but its wide and too heavy. Ditto the WNDR Vital 100. Something else out there I'm missing?
Also, I already have a wider "winter" bc ski, so this ski can be short and light, and doesn't need to be a Protest or RX or Deathwish or something like that.
Thx all

[jacob_dbu]

I have the Beast 98 and I think it's a bit too rockered in the tip for a spring summer ski. I find that all that rocker makes it difficult to control on 1kg boots. More of a do-it-all ski.

[rod9301]

The Salomon mtn explore 95 is pretty good as long as you don't go fast on firm snow

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[Jeb McHardman]

I really enjoyed my Hagan Boost 94s this season. The radius is a bit smaller than you're looking for (19.5), but it hits all the other criteria. I used it in every type of snow imaginable and never had any issues. Was particularly happy with it in smooth, firm snow, windbuff, and corn

[XavierD]

Old BMT 94 is killer

A shorter (178) ZeroG 95 (Gen1) does it for me.

[sf]

As X says, the bmt94 is really good. The bmt90 is a pretty different ski, due to different camber profile.

Is the praxis sale still on?
Yeti or mvp94 with UL and CCR?

[tang]

Muchos gracias, that gives me some more to look at and think on. And Hagan wasn’t on my radar at all

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I think I said it before, but Zero G 105. If you want a ski that can handle some slop you a little more girth is your friend. Matters just as much as tail rocker, imo. Radius is 23m. I've owned the Zero G 85 and have skied the 95 a few times too. I'd take the 105's out before those in almost any situation besides covering lots of ground to ski moderate terrain. The bit of extra weight, longer radius and wider platform on the 105's just makes them suitable to a wider range of conditions.

In CO you're not doing 5000' of switchbacks up a volcano. And timing your descent for perfect corn is tricky here. Dealing with a little more width while skinning is worth it to me. Sold my 85's because they became a ski I used occasionally and never regretted taking the wider skis over them.

[gregL]

I've tried most of the above except the Hagan Boost 94, and my favorite light ski with enough guts for technical descents is still the original Zero G 95 (also own the OG ZG 85 and current ZG 105). Mine are detuned to 1:1 and rounded a fair amount at the tip and tail for "user friendliness." The current versions of the Zero G with the beveled top edges are easier to ski and don't require any tune adjustments out of the wrapper, but don't have the same confidence on edge.

I don't think you'll find anything with much tail rocker or a radius over about 20-21 meters in this class.

Am interested in the Movement Alp Tracks LTD 95 for this slot, but haven't skied it.

[sf]

I have no idea why I'm suddenly pushing Praxis, but a - 1 BC could also work.

The BC is the only Praxis ski I've really liked, an the Yeti is perhaps a little short/long.

Might be an alternative when my Bmt94s die in a couple of seasons

[plugboots]

I have the BC, and for the OP’s quest, I would want around 105 underfoot as well. Skis are stiff side-to-side these days, and a little wider is more versatile.


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[tang]

Thanks all, good ideas and recs. I need to think and research some more now, based on these inputs.
I am hesitant to go above 1500 gr - I've done enough 10-15+ mile and 4-6k vert sufferfests that I'm gun shy on going too big. FWIW, I have a 190cm Raven as my winter BC ski, but it's an 1850 gr ski. (Tangent... but I don't know how 4frnt has gotten the Renegade down to 2075 gr, but then kept the Raven at 1850. I wish the Ren was like +150-200 gr heavier and the Raven lighter by about the same)
So fingers crossed on Down doing a production run this season. If not, then gonna start digging in on some of the above.
Thx again all

[tang]

BTW, this has gotten me looking at the Movement line-up... I found a description of the Go 90 on a French site, then google translated into English...
"The Movement Go 90 Ti is a surprisingly versatile ski, which can be used both in all-mountain and freerando, always offering lightness, performance and nervousness."
Hmmm, I get nervous enough on the top of some lines, and don't need my ski further contributing!

[gregL]

BTW, this has gotten me looking at the Movement line-up... I found a description of the Go 90 on a French site, then google translated into English...
"The Movement Go 90 Ti is a surprisingly versatile ski, which can be used both in all-mountain and freerando, always offering lightness, performance and nervousness."
Hmmm, I get nervous enough on the top of some lines, and don't need my ski further contributing!

Semantics. I think they meant to say something like "energy."

Catalog has the GO 98Ti at 1550 grams in a 178, we'll see how accurate that is.

[Jeb McHardman]

As a point of reference, the other touring setups I spent significant time on last year (20+ days) are 186 K2 MB 116 w/ speed radicals and 178 DPS Wailer 105 (Pure3 construction from '16 or '17) w/ speed radicals. The MBs are something like 2100 g and the Wailers are 1700 or 1800 g. Did everything from 1,500' pre-work skins at the resort to 15+ mile, 7k+ linkups on all of these setups, and the downhill performance of the Hagan's was not a significant step down from either of the other skis. I prefer the Wailers when things are steep, narrow, and firm and the MBs when there's powder (duh), but for a 1500 g ski, I was blown away by the performance of the Hagans

[skis_the_trees]

I have no idea why I'm suddenly pushing Praxis, but a - 1 BC could also work. The BC is the only Praxis ski I've really liked, an the Yeti is perhaps a little short/long.

I'm not a Praxis aficionado (wait, I own 4 pairs, maybe I am) but the older Yeti was simply a BC -10mm in width. I have an older set of carbon 192 Yetis that have a fair amount of camber underfoot and without the oscillating sidecut. They have some tip and tail rocker. They are a sturdy enough I skied them an entire season from icy groomer to fresh couloir laps in New Zealand, something I wouldn't dream of doing with some of the lighter touring oriented skis (like the Trabs below). Now that I live 20min from where I ski, I grab fatter skis on deep days and lighter skis in the spring but I could still ski the Yetis for an entire season and they would be great everyday. Mine are mounted -2cm and that's def better than on the dot for me (same with GPOs).

With that out of the way, my spring ski for your uses is an older Trab Free Rando Light, 178cm, full camber, 80mm waist, ~1400g with Trab TR Race Adjustable bindings. With a 2 buckle boot they rip. For springtime I'm not a fan of early rise or rockered tips. I also sometimes use 10y+ old full camber Karhu Jak BC ~1800g flat, 90mm waist and I'm continually amazed at how well they ski in everything (although I do like more width and rocker tips when its >3" fresh). I never feel limited by the Jaks unless it's so deep I should be on a fatter ski (caveat: I'm skiing tech binders, 2 buckles boots, etc; I'm sure with a real DH boot I might feel the limits). I could tour every day including couloir season on the Jaks and they would be great the whole time but at a bit more weight than modern skis.

[sf]

I'm not a Praxis aficionado (wait, I own 4 pairs, maybe I am) but the older Yeti was simply a BC -10mm in width. I have an older set of carbon 192 Yetis that have a fair amount of camber underfoot and without the oscillating sidecut. They have some tip and tail rocker. They are a sturdy enough I skied them an entire season from icy groomer to fresh couloir laps in New Zealand, something I wouldn't dream of doing with some of the lighter touring oriented skis (like the Trabs below). Now that I live 20min from where I ski, I grab fatter skis on deep days and lighter skis in the spring but I could still ski the Yetis for an entire season and they would be great everyday. Mine are mounted -2cm and that's def better than on the dot for me (same with GPOs).

With that out of the way, my spring ski for your uses is an older Trab Free Rando Light, 178cm, full camber, 80mm waist, ~1400g with Trab TR Race Adjustable bindings. With a 2 buckle boot they rip. For springtime I'm not a fan of early rise or rockered tips. I also sometimes use 10y+ old full camber Karhu Jak BC ~1800g flat, 90mm waist and I'm continually amazed at how well they ski in everything (although I do like more width and rocker tips when its >3" fresh). I never feel limited by the Jaks unless it's so deep I should be on a fatter ski (caveat: I'm skiing tech binders, 2 buckles boots, etc; I'm sure with a real DH boot I might feel the limits). I could tour every day including couloir season on the Jaks and they would be great the whole time but at a bit more weight than modern skis.

Yeah, but the 182/192 on the Yeti just doesn't work for me for touring

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I didn't love the Praxis BC on firm snow (180s and 190s). Tail could wash out. Brilliant on anything soft though. Always wanted to ski Yetis

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[Benneke10]

I'm kind of a noob skier and haven't skied many couloirs so I normally wouldn't chime in here but I am probably one of the only people who has owned Hagan and LD90 skis so I'll share. I have the Boost 99 in 178 which is advertised as softer than the Boost 94 Jeb mentioned. The Boost 99 are heavier (1500g vs 1325g), softer, much floatier, and take less effort to turn. The LD90s have better edge hold, carve better on hard snow and are more stable at high speed. The Boosts are definitely more damp (both are good for their weights) but the long radius inspires confidence on smooth snow.

[twat]

I never cared much about hagan at all. The brand was not cool enough for me.
But who makes those hagan skis?

[Jeb McHardman]

Not sure who "makes" them other than Hagan. They're manufactured in the Ukraine, not Austria, which is a bummer but still better than China from a QC perspective.

[twat]

Ukraine, than i guess it is the fischer factory. The pictures of the tip and tails on the hagan website reminded me instantly on fischer ski shapes. Might be a different ski or most likely a rebranded fischer ski. Something like transalp etc.... not familiar with there line up. Another not cool enough brand for me. (I am getting uncool latly. I bought a pair of there boots last season). I quick googled: said their factory burned down last year.... just sayin.

I have not skied the fischer touring skis but they are very very popular here in the backcountry. I would say every 5th pair. so they canot be to wrong with their shape and flex-pattern. most folks ski something like the 80mm underfoot versions : )

this guy rips on fischer skis and he rips up and down


https://www.facebook.com/lukasruetz....75465113960849

[waxoff]

Thanks all, good ideas and recs. I need to think and research some more now, based on these inputs.
I am hesitant to go above 1500 gr - I've done enough 10-15+ mile and 4-6k vert sufferfests that I'm gun shy on going too big. FWIW, I have a 190cm Raven as my winter BC ski, but it's an 1850 gr ski. (Tangent... but I don't know how 4frnt has gotten the Renegade down to 2075 gr, but then kept the Raven at 1850. I wish the Ren was like +150-200 gr heavier and the Raven lighter by about the same)
So fingers crossed on Down doing a production run this season. If not, then gonna start digging in on some of the above.
Thx again all

I'm also hoping for the return of Down. If that doesn't happen, maybe it would be worthwhile to check out Sego's coming Wave 94 , it seems to come close to your listed specs, albeit with a pretty hefty price tag...

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I'm also hoping for the return of Down. If that doesn't happen, maybe it would be worthwhile to check out Sego's coming Wave 94 , it seems to come close to your listed specs, albeit with a pretty hefty price tag...

Well those are interesting.

[tang]

^^^ Thx again. Interesting compare on the Down vs Hagan. Man, those LD90s seem so perfect. The Segos are interesting as well. That was not on my radar. Although yeah, >$1k price would make me think twice before my usual rock bashing... for better or worse