Fatherhood anonymous; an open discussion on being a dad.

[406]

See, im not sure what to think of this. I run hot, and my home mountain is super physical skiing (pretty much no groomers and all steep, techy, heavy snow) so i dress typically very light. When i go to other mountains and ski with friends and family we are typically skiing way more cruisy groomers and stuff and i have to layer up much more. When im teaching my kid im imagining there will be a lot more stopping, starting, and chilling so i would have to dress warmer... no?

I'm typically uncomfortably hot or uncomfortably cold when skiing with the kids. When everything is going smoothly=cold, helping 5 y/o with urgent pee in the woods=sweeting. I telemark with the kids, so little extra work does help stay warm on the blue groomers.

[californiagrown]

And lots of picking up, digging out, dragging, etc. The first night I taught "never evers" I was exhausted and sore the next day.

I want to believe you, i really do. And the logical side of me says "just fucking listen to the people who have done this, in your exact situation, multiple times you idiot."


...but i think this is just one of those things im going to have to learn the hard way.

[phatty]

I want to believe you, i really do. And the logical side of me says "just fucking listen to the people who have done this, in your exact situation, multiple times you idiot."


...but i think this is just one of those things im going to have to learn the hard way.

I agree. Worst case is you are miserable and sweaty for a day. I don't run hot, so I handle my layering at Alpental differently. It will be fun regardless.

[G. Gordon Liddy]

A quick follow up to my pretty depressing posts earlier in this thread. My kiddo got his drivers permit, so it's allowed some longer quiet time together. The other day he just quietly said: "It's been a real hard year, dad..." (both my folks passed away, and a friend committed suicide) It really opened an opportunity to have a deep conversation with a teen just trying to figure it all out.

Fast forward to this week. We had some great long chats before he left for ski camp in Colorado. He seems like he's willing to talk a lot more and see a therapist when he gets back.

Plus, it looks like he's having a good time while they wait for the jumps to get built up: https://www.instagram.com/p/C0c5wWWO-BJ/

To all the new dads: Stick with it!! It's by far the hardest and easily the most rewarding experience of my life. It's not for everybody either, that's for sure!

[phatty]

A quick follow up to my pretty depressing posts earlier in this thread. My kiddo got his drivers permit, so it's allowed some longer quiet time together. The other day he just quietly said: "It's been a real hard year, dad..." (both my folks passed away, and a friend committed suicide) It really opened an opportunity to have a deep conversation with a teen just trying to figure it all out.

Fast forward to this week. We had some great long chats before he left for ski camp in Colorado. He seems like he's willing to talk a lot more and see a therapist when he gets back.

Plus, it looks like he's having a good time while they wait for the jumps to get built up: https://www.instagram.com/p/C0c5wWWO-BJ/

To all the new dads: Stick with it!! It's by far the hardest and easily the most rewarding experience of my life. It's not for everybody either, that's for sure!

Love this follow up! Great job being there for him and taking it at his pace.

[anotherVTskibum]

I'm typically uncomfortably hot or uncomfortably cold when skiing with the kids. When everything is going smoothly=cold, helping 5 y/o with urgent pee in the woods=sweeting. I telemark with the kids, so little extra work does help stay warm on the blue groomers.

My experience (so far) is that I need to be about a layer lighter to take the kids out versus skiing hard by myself (or with friends) and about two layers heavier than most coaching for ski racing (aka standing on the side of the hill). With toddlers who need to be held while on the lift (or closely monitored on a carpet so they don't get distracted and step off halfway up), there are very few moments where I'm not exerting myself far more than casual groomer laps.

Consider also the altitude and aspect of your beginner areas. Around here, at least, they tend to be lower on the hill and perhaps a little more sun-exposed.

I strongly suspect it will get closer to what 406 described when they're willing and able to ski independently between pile ups.

[muted reborn]

A quick follow up to my pretty depressing posts earlier in this thread. My kiddo got his drivers permit, so it's allowed some longer quiet time together. The other day he just quietly said: "It's been a real hard year, dad..." (both my folks passed away, and a friend committed suicide) It really opened an opportunity to have a deep conversation with a teen just trying to figure it all out.

Fast forward to this week. We had some great long chats before he left for ski camp in Colorado. He seems like he's willing to talk a lot more and see a therapist when he gets back.

Plus, it looks like he's having a good time while they wait for the jumps to get built up: https://www.instagram.com/p/C0c5wWWO-BJ/

To all the new dads: Stick with it!! It's by far the hardest and easily the most rewarding experience of my life. It's not for everybody either, that's for sure!

Cool to hear. And good for him opening up, that is hard to do at any age.

My dad died a few months ago so my 8 year old for her poetry assignment wrote a poem about him. The title was "Thursday Stroke, Sunday Death." It was intense.

This thread has helped remind me I need to check in with her about this.

[tgapp]

I teach kids, so you’re welcome to bounce stuff off me here or in a PM.

Our multi-week programs at Mt. Bachelor, Oregon start about $90 per day, without lunch, equipment, or lift tickets. Kids bring their own lunches and the lessons run from 9 to 3.

There are certainly a bunch of tricks to the trade, but I think I bring a unique perspective because I didn’t learn to ski until I was 21 years old. Nothing really matters other than that they have fun and want to go skiing. If that’s racing gates by the age of 6 or stopping frequently to make snow angels both are fine. If you want your kid to excel at athletics including skiing the best thing you can do is expose them to lots of sports.

I’m not a big believer that you’re going to teach and ingrain bad habits. Most of us innately have that covered with no instruction. So, if you can keep it fun and enjoy it yourself keep skiing with them. Kids learn the majority of their skills through observation and experience, so if you stay out of the way and make sure they don’t get hurt you’re about 85% there.

big time thread lurker here, i don't check this thread all the time because it makes me feel some sorta way, but i just had to say that this advice is brilliant and beautiful and resonant with my own experience - not in teaching kids (i have none) but in practicing curious empathy in understanding the experience of others. those kids just wanna have fun, if you can make that happen, you're doing it right.


also huge congrats to doebedoe!! FKNA, I am so happy for you. The kid's so lucky to have you both as his parents

okay I'll see myself out the babyhunger is REAL

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[AK47bp]

A pocket full of sour patch kids and a thermos of hot chocolate at the car are always money.

[Doremite]

big time thread lurker here, i don't check this thread all the time because it makes me feel some sorta way, but i just had to say that this advice is brilliant and beautiful and resonant with my own experience - not in teaching kids (i have none) but in practicing curious empathy in understanding the experience of others. those kids just wanna have fun, if you can make that happen, you're doing it right.


also huge congrats to doebedoe!! FKNA, I am so happy for you. The kid's so lucky to have you both as his parents

okay I'll see myself out the babyhunger is REAL

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As in you want a baby in your life? Perhaps you haven’t spent a lot of time around babies when they’re awake.

Parenthood can be wonderful. Babies are full of challenge and they just roll in, all consuming and change everything forever.

[lowsparkco]

Congrats doebedoe! It’s a wild ride. Reach out if you need anything. My little girl just turned 6 months, so a lot of it’s still fresh.

Thanks for the kind words tgapp. You really make this place feel like a community.

Californiagrown, remember when we’re talking about teaching professionally, it’s often quite a few students. Managing one is a lot different than 5. I dress a lot warmer when I teach then when I ride.

[skaredshtles]

Cool to hear. And good for him opening up, that is hard to do at any age.

My dad died a few months ago so my 8 year old for her poetry assignment wrote a poem about him. The title was "Thursday Stroke, Sunday Death." It was intense.

This thread has helped remind me I need to check in with her about this.

Sorry to hear about your old man, m.r.

[carlh]

The thermos lives in the dad vest. Noting like warm fluids and sugar to stop a mid run meltdown.

A pocket full of sour patch kids and a thermos of hot chocolate at the car are always money.

[Buster Highmen]

My kid turned 2 in september. Hes been stoked to strap on his skis and shuffle around the living room this past summer/fall for 2 mins at a time. He just wants to be like dad, he does basically the same thing with my slippers. I expect to have him do something similar this year at the ski hill- shuffle around for 2 mins at a time between snowangels/toddeling around/snacking/etc. We have "Lucky Bums" skis. $40 from amazon. The goal is have him associate snow/skiing with fun, fun, fun! for the first couple years... who cares about skill building or progression. That will come once he is hooked on snow, and has a little more coordination and strength around 5 yrs old.

I used to take mine to one of the gentler snowbanks in lot 4 and let them slide on a little tray, put skis on to waddle around a bit and I'd carry him or her up a little bit and let them slide down. After about 20 minutes of snowplay like that, I'd break out the hot chocolate at the car, strap them in and drive back down with them snoozing deep. Once we had a 2 yo and a 4 yo at the same time, partner and I would split time between the lot snowbanks and Sessel.

We never did lessons, my son really couldn't do it.

Like mofro, I figured the best method was using a pole to give them something to grab for stability and make each session suitably short.

That was 20 years ago. Now, in the spare time between college and research assistantships, he just wants to go skiing.

[Mazderati]

My dad died a few months ago so my 8 year old for her poetry assignment wrote a poem about him. The title was "Thursday Stroke, Sunday Death." It was intense.

What a title and mind to have created it. RIP to your dad.

[gaijin]

The thermos lives in the dad vest. Noting like warm fluids and sugar to stop a mid run meltdown.

This. Also, taking breaks before they ask for them or have breakdowns are a good go-to. Early on my kids thought that every run deserved a break.

I did a trick that my dad did to me-- Leave before they get tired and before they're ready to leave. Then their latest memory from skiing was wanting to ski more, not "This sucks."

With three kids 2-3 years apart each, I spent a solid 9 years pretty much always carrying someone and his/her gear. It was admittedly fairly daunting at times. I used to teach skiing, and taught kids for a few years, so I'm quite confident but wanted to put them in ski school just so they could hear a different perspective. But they refused. They didn't really care about "getting better." When I explained that it just gets more fun as we get better they replied "But, it's already fun." That was enough for me.

Two years ago was the first time that all three could manage a chair and descent on their own. On a mild storm day, 4-6 inches of cream cheese, they were lapping this little field up high in the clouds just hooting and hollering "Let's get the powder!" I had an absolute blast and when I got home my wife asked how it was-- "I think that was the best ski day of my life."

I had no idea skiing would be that fun. I knew that they had the bug, could manage terrain by themselves, and would have a lifetime of enjoyment from skiing. It made that 9 years so fucking worth it.

Also in 2020 I was guiding out of a hotel when the pandemic closed the schools. I brought my kids to a hotel room to study and ski throughout the day. There's a small double chair right in front of the hotel, probably 2-300 meters in length. I kept seeing them ride up the chair and bomb down. I went out and asked them how many times they'd ridden that chair so far and they said 30-soemthing. "We're going for 50. Once we hit 30, we knew we could get to 50."

50 laps on one chair just to say that they did it. (I still am kinda proud of that.)

[lowsparkco]

It’s kinda funny to me that quite a few of our parents get obsessed with breaking their kids from skiing out of the wedge. Some try to never teach the wedge, so they can’t get stuck using it all the time. The thing is that the kids love it. It’s fun to them. Seems like a problem that solves itself to me. I’ve never seen a 10 year old that’s been skiing 30 days a year since he/she was 4 ski out of a wedge, so they all drop it some where along the way.

But I also can’t imagine not teaching it. As someone who enjoys a lot of different ways to slide on skis, it’s darn useful.

[Sirshredalot]

It’s kinda funny to me that quite a few of our parents get obsessed with breaking their kids from skiing out of the wedge. Some try to never teach the wedge, so they can’t get stuck using it all the time. The thing is that the kids love it. It’s fun to them. Seems like a problem that solves itself to me. I’ve never seen a 10 year old that’s been skiing 30 days a year since he/she was 4 ski out of a wedge, so they all drop it some where along the way.

But I also can’t imagine not teaching it. As someone who enjoys a lot of different ways to slide on skis, it’s darn useful.

Good instructors can teach a direct-to-parallel progression. It's a totally different learning curve. My elder child skied in a clean, open parallel at 3. Yes, I think she had more fun at 4 skiing pow and sliding boxes in the kiddie park than she would have had in a braking wedge.

There were some ski schools who tried to adopt the approach as their centerline progression around 20 years ago. Some still use it, especially for locals programs.

If you're involved with coaching/instructing, I think it's worth being open to the idea that the wedge doesn't need to be taught at all.

Horses for courses, of course. Different progressions are better ideas for different kids and different circumstances.

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[californiagrown]

I used to take mine to one of the gentler snowbanks in lot 4 and let them slide on a little tray, put skis on to waddle around a bit and I'd carry him or her up a little bit and let them slide down. After about 20 minutes of snowplay like that, I'd break out the hot chocolate at the car, strap them in and drive back down with them snoozing deep. Once we had a 2 yo and a 4 yo at the same time, partner and I would split time between the lot snowbanks and Sessel.

We never did lessons, my son really couldn't do it.

Like mofro, I figured the best method was using a pole to give them something to grab for stability and make each session suitably short.

That was 20 years ago. Now, in the spare time between college and research assistantships, he just wants to go skiing.

Yep. Last year when he was 15-18,months i took him up a few times on the strapon skis and we just putzed around on the return catrack above lot 4. Perfect length downhills to be able hike or sidestep back up easily, and easy access to soft snow for snowballs and rolling around. and then we would go have a snack over by the yurt lesson area and ogle all the "big kids" learning to ski from outside the fenced area. He is a big monkey see monkey do kinda kid and always wanting to do what "the big kids" are doing at daycare for better or worse. And also ditto on the return trip nap where i just took the side roads through north bend into carnation to monroe etc to get the drive time up to 2ish hours so he would get his full nap in. I dont mind a nice relaxing drive with quiet "me" time a rarity these days. I also think thats an underrated point from galjin about leave before they are ready to leave so they remember wanting more and its always a positive last impression. I think im going to go with the Norseman approved hockey stick instead of pole, but same concept as what youre saying. Sounds like you did it right with your kids if they are choosing that as a main hobby when not taking care of buisness in the classroom.

Im stoked to show him more and more of what im stoked on as he gets older. Keep the tips/tricks/expereinces coming. Its always helpful and entertaining to learn from someone who went before!

[lowsparkco]

Good instructors can teach a direct-to-parallel progression. It's a totally different learning curve. My elder child skied in a clean, open parallel at 3. Yes, I think she had more fun at 4 skiing pow and sliding boxes in the kiddie park than she would have had in a braking wedge.

There were some ski schools who tried to adopt the approach as their centerline progression around 20 years ago. Some still use it, especially for locals programs.

If you're involved with coaching/instructing, I think it's worth being open to the idea that the wedge doesn't need to be taught at all.

Horses for courses, of course. Different progressions are better ideas for different kids and different circumstances.

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Sometimes, especially when the snow is perfect, more athletic kids seem to skip a lot of wedge skiing and match and steer with both skis. Of course you can always learn a wedge later. I usually do a lot of differentiation between a gliding and braking wedge by making little cues for knees together and knees out depending on terrain. Some start to feel how the edges work for more or less friction.

I’ve heard of this straight to parallel progression and had a few parents insist on it. I try and accommodate almost anything, but this I really can’t accommodate and try and encourage them to teach them themselves or hire a private. One of these kids last year, 7 years old, started one of my 8 week multi-week session the strongest skier in the group and finished as the second to worst out of 8 kids. He simply didn’t listen because in his mind it contradicted his dad’s straight to parallel progression. We did accomplish baby sitting him for 6 hours every Saturday for two months though. Sometimes that seems to be the biggest win.

[muted reborn]

Sorry to hear about your old man, m.r.

What a title and mind to have created it. RIP to your dad.

Thanks guys, not trying to make this about me - but I appreciate it.

[Sirshredalot]

Sometimes, especially when the snow is perfect, more athletic kids seem to skip a lot of wedge skiing and match and steer with both skis. Of course you can always learn a wedge later. I usually do a lot of differentiation between a gliding and braking wedge by making little cues for knees together and knees out depending on terrain. Some start to feel how the edges work for more or less friction.

I’ve heard of this straight to parallel progression and had a few parents insist on it. I try and accommodate almost anything, but this I really can’t accommodate and try and encourage them to teach them themselves or hire a private. One of these kids last year, 7 years old, started one of my 8 week multi-week session the strongest skier in the group and finished as the second to worst out of 8 kids. He simply didn’t listen because in his mind it contradicted his dad’s straight to parallel progression. We did accomplish baby sitting him for 6 hours every Saturday for two months though. Sometimes that seems to be the biggest win.

I was around a few different ski schools long enough to see many different baseline beginner-intermediate progressions.

I walked away from the experience convinced that there's no one right way to skin a cat but that a dtp progression would work very well for most reasonably athletic 6 year olds in a locals' program, for example. But it's a different approach and demands different tasks and terrain.

Anyhow, I'm glad I'm not doing that whole thing around here any more. It was too much of a hustle for a pass and a locker.

I'm just stoked to get out and crank a few laps with my kids this year.

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[SkiLyft]

Little E is crushing it — we did the edgie wedgie when she just turned 2 to help her keep em straight. Ditched it the last 2 times out as she’s been progressing nicely and keeping them parallel.



That said if she wasn’t having fun due to ski form issues I wouldn’t have an issue adding it back.

Skiing should be fun and that’s what I am prioritizing for Ember!




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[doebedoe]

At that age, piss is fairly non-consequential. Meaning, it's basically water. it's not like drunk grandpa pissed on you.

Also, one week in is a glorious time. Tell me, do you even care about your own life anymore? I didn't. I felt so free that first week.

Congrats, homie. And, welcome.

Hey gaijin,

I just want you to know, this idea of "free" has been rattling around in my head all week -- at those 4am feeds, diaper upon diaper, and on those breaks when I get the dog out for a run.

I'm not sure that "free" was the concept I would've attached to many of my emotions since the Lil Punk showed up. But the fact I keep coming back to it is indicative of something. There is a different tenor to the world and my cares or relationship to it.

I do still care about my own life. Maybe more than ever. And while I've worked all my professional life in public service, I've never been as settled in being a servant. To my kid and to my wife.

Pretty fucking special this punk.

[tgapp]

placeholder post please ignore

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