Fatherhood anonymous; an open discussion on being a dad.

[radam]

Our first kid took a lesson when he was 4yo and those 90 minutes were more beneficial than many many days of magic carpet riding with me and the mrs. He also did a weekly 2hr lesson program at one of the local feeder hills when he was 6, and that was also extremely helpful. Both he and his younger brother did the same program last season (7 and 4.5 yo at the time), and it was a bit more chaos and I don't think either of them learned a ton, but kid #2 did come out of it thinking he should be in charge of carrying his own skis and clicking in/out of bindings, and also somehow had an excellent full-control pizza wedge despite spending several lessons building snowmen. Long story short, I don't think it needs to be an all or nothing thing. Do one lesson to help teach the absolute basics, or maybe try on your own for a bit and then drop 'em in a lesson when you need a mental break. Unless your kid is the type that violently resists change, no harm in switching it up as your situations allows.

[3pin]

My FIL is currently an instructor. He lives on the other coast but we might try to import him for some lessons. I guess having him teach us how to teach her might work best.



So five lessons, 3-4 hours each, for 240chf? So about 1/5 of the per-hour price I am seeing. I’m having a hard time working this it since it’s not like Switzerland is a low cost of living, low wage country. I think the limited number and ski areas and lessons here must be a factor. The price for services of any kind in this area (Seattle) is just bananas these days.




Honestly skiing with her as she learns sounds ideal to me. However, a skier dad once told me he thought lessons were worthwhile since the teacher was an authority figure who is not mom/dad which could be helpful.

I may have been that skier dad?!?

You are in a captive market, for sure. There are few alternatives for paid lessons, and they certainly aren’t any cheaper or easier to get into. Alpentykes usually books up within a week or two of opening, if I recall. Overall, they've really jacked up the prices for lessons, especially since the pandemic, and it doesn't seem like it's had much effect on demand locally.

It sucks, but we’ve continued to do lessons because 1) half of the cost is justified to get partner ski time with spouse/adult friends. My wife has always been my closest ski partner, and it's a huge adjustment to almost never getting to ski together - lessons were a key part in hanging on to some of that time. 2) even having taught lessons long, long ago, I realized whatever understanding I had of teaching adults meant little when it came to my own 3yo. Not all of them, but kids’ instructors usually have a patience far greater than my own.

Our kids get a ton of ski time and learning from free skiing as a family, but I do feel that the lessons they’ve gotten have accelerated their learning a lot faster with better mechanics. T was really hesitant about her instructor last year for wanting to do one-ski stuff and other edging drills, but that became her favorite when it immediately clicked for carving turns.

Regardless of lessons, frequent and repeat time on snow is probably the biggest driver for improvement. We usually see just as big a jump when we get 3-5 days in a row over a school break.

We’re still doing lessons for 5 weeks this winter, but now that our kids can ski around most inbounds, this is probably our last season.



Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[riser4]

Serious sticker shock. I just checked Smuggs website and the 8 week Mitey Mites is now $600. Holy fuck. That's at least double what I remember for my three kids who all did it for various amounts of time in the late 00s up until about 2014. Hopefully the program is still as good as it used to be. Fortunately the add-on season equipment lease is still only $99. And it's only a 3 hour session now. It used to be 4 plus lunch. And the kicker? It no longer includes the lift ticket. That's huge because they previously would let the kids ride free all day with the pinny on the day of their session. If we got up early we could get in runs together before. And of course take runs after. With Mitey Mites and Bash Badges I was able to dirtbag a reasonable number of days for the kids and myself without a season pass. Life is getting more expensive for dirtbags.

[3pin]

Is that Alpental's current rate? If so they've really jacked it up in the past few years. Lessons would be mostly worthless for a 3-year-old as the instructors aren't going to try that hard with them. Half the reason we put our kids through lessons (starting around age 4/5) was so my wife and I could ski without them. Teaching them to french fry isn't complicated, it just takes patience and if you have that you're set.

I just looked back, and when our youngest did the program in 2019, Alpentykes was $1061 for 10 weeks of the 3-hr morning program. It's now $1,280 for 5 weeks.

In 2020, our oldest did 10 weeks of Mighties for $1,037 (I think there was a slight discount for doing both 5-week sessions). It's now $1,280 for each 5-week sessions.



I'll stop bitching now - back to the stoke... Here's our oldest ripping Shot Six last year, and skiing Adrenaline on the last day of lessons in a taco costume. She's asked to go to Kicking Horse over Feb break to see the FWT, and her younger brother has gotten quite good trying to keep up with her. It's going to be a fun season this year!

[yeahman]

We stuck our kids in a 1/2 day lesson when they were like 4yo, IIRC, so that someone could teach them how to pizza and french fry.

After that - we just skied with them. A lot.

They are now 22, 21, and 19 and are very good skiers.

Just another option.

YMMV.

This is pretty much exactly what we did. One lesson when they were 4-5, other than that we just skied with them and I "taught" them. Wouldn't trade all those family days on the bunny hill for anything. And it's not long at all before they can ski fun terrain.

[Mofro261]

Honestly skiing with her as she learns sounds ideal to me. However, a skier dad once told me he thought lessons were worthwhile since the teacher was an authority figure who is not mom/dad which could be helpful.

Wow that is F'in steep for little tyke lessons, they have a monopoly up there for sure.

FWIW, neither of my kids were in lessons until they were 7 yro's, just skied with family. I wouldn't bother with lessons unless it's the only way you can get out on the hill by yourself. It's true when they get older they may be more likely to listen to someone else other than mom/dad but not likely at under 5.

What does work, if you can swing it, is to avoid busy weekends and get out with the kiddos for 2 hr blocks either early evenings or weekdays. That way you are not trying yo multitask and feel bad for missing your turns while focusing on the little one.

Here's my best advice for working with very young kids.

1. Start the skiing in the living room. Put boots on, put skis on, get them to try and walk around. Get them to try and turn a 180 without lifting a ski over the other on. Then once on snow work on this on the flats before heading to the carpet.

2. Don't hold the kid between your legs. It doesn't teach them to support themselves, they just go limp and let the parent hurt their back. Use a ski pole, bamboo pole, hockey stick etc and have them ski next to you. That way you can control the speed while letting their legs actuallly do some of the work. The ski harness and edgie wedgie can help with control too, but stick to slopes where their speed isn't making you hold them all the time

3. If possible, try to have 2 adults /1 kid. One in front, and one to trail. Little kids have zero attention span so giving them a visual in front to look at will keep their attention and keep them from bombing out of control. "follow the snow ball" etc. will also help here.

4. Snacks and candy as frequent rewards. We used life savers etc but make sure it's not a choking hazzard.

5. Trails and trees, kids love those and will ski better and have more fun than wide open runs. Attention span again.

6. Hands in front. This is the easiest way to get their balance dialed. hands at the side or back puts the weight back and causes most falls. (adults too).

I'm sure there's more others can add in. I have no formal ski instructing but did teach both of mine to high proficency before they went into race programs.( I did pick up a little knowledge from my parents who were level III and IV psia while I was growing up)

[phatty]

Alpental has really jacked their rates the last few years. They do have a captive market of Type A skiers who want their kids to learn there. Here's my thoughts as a former Alpental instructor.

1. The time to pay for lessons (just like passes) is as soon as they go on sale. The Tykes program used to sell out the first day. With the new costs, might last a little longer. The pricing is better (a little bit) earlier in the sale.

2. The Tykes program is worthless for "teaching" them to ski. The instructors are 15-17yo kids in the leadership program. Think about it like daycare on snow.

3. I started my kids at 4yo in normal lessons. I'm not a fan of how they've changed from 8 weekly lessons to two groups of 5. 8 was perfect, 5 not enough and 10 is too much. Before they were 4, they stayed home with a babysitter so my wife could come with me and the other kids. Way cheaper, though it didn't feel like it at the time. If you know any Mormons, tap into their youth babysitting network. I say this as a Mormon [emoji28]. Most of the kids are solid babysitters and will be reasonably priced.

4. Get a job as an instructor. I taught Friday nights. That way I'd have Saturday to be up skiing with my wife and older kids while the younger ones were in lessons. You get paid $19hr, free pass for you and 1/2 price passes and lessons for your family. I saved $3K one year when I had 5 kids in lessons.

5. My rule was they could be done with lessons when they could ski Upper International without slowing me down (too much). They usually got there around 11-12yo. We would always take runs at the end of lunch and stay till 4pm after their lessons (if they were up for it).

My kids aren't as awesome as some of the ones you see around (or Mofro, Flowing's kids), but they love to ski and still like to ski with me. They can ski anywhere and don't freak out when it gets real step or technical. That's the benefit of teaching them at Alpental vs. the rest of the Summit.

[carlh]

My son is signed up for mighties this year as his first real lessons at 7. I got him snowplowing down blues last year but he doesn’t like dad telling him what to do to improve past that. It was pricy but hoping for good results and I get to ski those days too. Will report back later in the season.

[lowsparkco]

I teach kids, so you’re welcome to bounce stuff off me here or in a PM.

Our multi-week programs at Mt. Bachelor, Oregon start about $90 per day, without lunch, equipment, or lift tickets. Kids bring their own lunches and the lessons run from 9 to 3.

There are certainly a bunch of tricks to the trade, but I think I bring a unique perspective because I didn’t learn to ski until I was 21 years old. Nothing really matters other than that they have fun and want to go skiing. If that’s racing gates by the age of 6 or stopping frequently to make snow angels both are fine. If you want your kid to excel at athletics including skiing the best thing you can do is expose them to lots of sports.

I’m not a big believer that you’re going to teach and ingrain bad habits. Most of us innately have that covered with no instruction. So, if you can keep it fun and enjoy it yourself keep skiing with them. Kids learn the majority of their skills through observation and experience, so if you stay out of the way and make sure they don’t get hurt you’re about 85% there.

[Dromond]

Thanks to all the dads for posting your tips, stories, and shared lessons sticker shock.

[doebedoe]

One week in. All I can say is holy shit. Good. Bad. And literal.

Supplemental feed if our jaundiced boy after he pissed all over my pants.

[gaijin]

At that age, piss is fairly non-consequential. Meaning, it's basically water. it's not like drunk grandpa pissed on you.

Also, one week in is a glorious time. Tell me, do you even care about your own life anymore? I didn't. I felt so free that first week.

Congrats, homie. And, welcome.

[subtle plague]

Dude, don't Lose your pants in the first week! That's three month sleep deprivation Status right away! [emoji6]

[SkiLyft]

Ahhh, good to see you post up doebedoe! We barely kept both outs out of needing lights in the NICU with triple feeds, know that process well!


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[406]

Oldest the insurance company delivered bilirubin lights to the house. Middle kid, wife was tandem feeding so flushed out fast with all the milk. Youngest ended up going back to hospital. He was 10.5 lbs at birth, post poop, so could see that coming. If levels not too crazy, might be worth checking if you can get the at home lights. Way better than going back in, but obviously do if you need to.

[snapt]

Kiddo turns 1 here in 2 weeks, crazy how fast it's gone. He's been on his feet since 7 months and by now has really good balance and can run, hop etc and enjoys moshing around in the snow. Any recs for kid's first skis he can walk around in the yard in this winter?

[alpinevibes]

Kiddo turns 1 here in 2 weeks, crazy how fast it's gone. He's been on his feet since 7 months and by now has really good balance and can run, hop etc and enjoys moshing around in the snow. Any recs for kid's first skis he can walk around in the yard in this winter?

We had some strap on plastic skis that you could strap/tighten onto little snow boots. These were my wife’s from the 80s but I’ve see similar, newer products



I’ll chime in and agree with some other posters about lessons: I think some lessons around age 3+ can provide some noticeable improvements and spread the learning load out. My twins are four and we have skied with them for three seasons, mostly just as a family. They’ve progressed a lot but their most noticeable days of improvement were the 3 lessons we put them in last year - when mom and dad weren’t trying to teach them and then they “had” to ski for a longer amount of time than our typical 10-Noon morning laps (we live 3min from Buttermilk).

Here SkiCo does $109 lessons (9-3, with lunch) for local kids. $700 isn’t nothing but I think the money was well spent, on top of getting a ski day with my wife for not much more than a sitter for 6 hours.

This year we’ll probably do 3-5 $109 lessons on weekends and they’re doing five Wednesdays of 9-12:30 ski lesson mornings through their PreK program with SkiCo instructors. It’s like $100/session for that.

[funkendrenchman]

Kiddo turns 1 here in 2 weeks, crazy how fast it's gone. He's been on his feet since 7 months and by now has really good balance and can run, hop etc and enjoys moshing around in the snow. Any recs for kid's first skis he can walk around in the yard in this winter?

The plastic skis are fine, but , before 2, it's really just to say you put the kid on skis. I think we did it a couple times. It's a lot more fun when they hit 2+. We used them on the nordic trails a bunch.

[phatty]

I forgot to mention on Alpental lessons, Friday Night is also a great option if it works for you. Lessons are shorter (1.5hrs), but there's no lift lines so kids get more reps. I'll also say that I worked with many of the better Alpental teachers on Friday nights. They like the relaxed atmosphere compared to weekend lessons.

[californiagrown]

The plastic skis are fine, but , before 2, it's really just to say you put the kid on skis. I think we did it a couple times. It's a lot more fun when they hit 2+. We used them on the nordic trails a bunch.

Kiddo turns 1 here in 2 weeks, crazy how fast it's gone. He's been on his feet since 7 months and by now has really good balance and can run, hop etc and enjoys moshing around in the snow. Any recs for kid's first skis he can walk around in the yard in this winter?

My kid turned 2 in september. Hes been stoked to strap on his skis and shuffle around the living room this past summer/fall for 2 mins at a time. He just wants to be like dad, he does basically the same thing with my slippers. I expect to have him do something similar this year at the ski hill- shuffle around for 2 mins at a time between snowangels/toddeling around/snacking/etc. We have "Lucky Bums" skis. $40 from amazon. The goal is have him associate snow/skiing with fun, fun, fun! for the first couple years... who cares about skill building or progression. That will come once he is hooked on snow, and has a little more coordination and strength around 5 yrs old.

[benk]

That’s what our pediatrician told us, get him a on those plastic skis so when it comes to actually skiing they presumably won’t be terrified of them.

Good info in here about lessons/age. On Mt Hood, a $2 bus ride gets you 2.5k of vert from Tline to Govy. A couple years ago they started grooming a very mellow cat-track all the way down to town. I think it’ll be perfect for us and others wanting to get our 18month old familiar with things without the expense or commitment of going to a resort

[anotherVTskibum]

Both my kids (now 2 and 3) have plastic toy skis from Amazon as well as actual skis. My ex-wife was more gung-ho about getting them on the actual ski hill than I was (as noted already, association with fun is more important than anything else), but they both got really into it. The younger one spent a fair number of hours this summer walking around the yard on those plastic skis, and when we went to the resort last weekend, he insisted on walking to the snow and carrying his own skis.

You might think that sounds like a win, but I'm pretty sure it was directly related to him being exhausted halfway down the hill. Carpets aren't open yet, so we took them up the proper bunny hill, and I wasn't surprised that I ended up carrying both kids down the bottom part.

Both are capable of skiing the carpet hill under their own power; the three-year-old can turn in both directions but usually won't do so unless prompted and sometimes physically encouraged to do so. I felt use a gate shaft (basically a 1.5-m-long plastic stick) and ski next to her, and she will try very hard to lean on it and me while I try to get her not to (usually by having a loose grip until I need to hold her up to avoid a crash).

The biggest equipment recommendation I can make is the Fischer One boot. They're relatively pricey and a new model so probably tough to find used, but their light weight and soft flex construction really seem to help both walking around in them and skiing.

We also got fancy Kinderlift vests with handles for both kids; if we hadn't been gifted the first one as a hand me down, I don't know that I would have spent $50 on the second one, but they're very well made and give a lot of confidence when relying on the handle.

The three-year-old gets to go skiing with daycare this year, assuming they manage to find enough staffing, so I'm hopeful she'll do a bit more standing on her own with them (it's not a 1:1 ratio like skiing with her parents).

We have been guilty of over-terraining them at times, particularly late season when the most appropriate terrain was closed. I'm okay with doing that because I am willing to carry them at that point, but I recognize it's a very significant double-edged sword, particularly given that they'll have to learn that being carried is only a limited option while they're very small.

[yeahman]

Carpets aren't open yet, so we took them up the proper bunny hill, and I wasn't surprised that I ended up carrying both kids down the bottom part.

This brings to mind one of the most important pieces of advice anybody ever gave me: Do not overdress when teaching kids to ski on the bunny hill. You're going to be working your ass off and sweating up a storm.

[californiagrown]

This brings to mind one of the most important pieces of advice anybody ever gave me: Do not overdress when teaching kids to ski on the bunny hill. You're going to be working your ass off and sweating up a storm.

See, im not sure what to think of this. I run hot, and my home mountain is super physical skiing (pretty much no groomers and all steep, techy, heavy snow) so i dress typically very light. When i go to other mountains and ski with friends and family we are typically skiing way more cruisy groomers and stuff and i have to layer up much more. When im teaching my kid im imagining there will be a lot more stopping, starting, and chilling so i would have to dress warmer... no?

[phatty]

See, im not sure what to think of this. I run hot, and my home mountain is super physical skiing (pretty much no groomers and all steep, techy, heavy snow) so i dress typically very light. When i go to other mountains and ski with friends and family we are typically skiing way more cruisy groomers and stuff and i have to layer up much more. When im teaching my kid im imagining there will be a lot more stopping, starting, and chilling so i would have to dress warmer... no?

And lots of picking up, digging out, dragging, etc. The first night I taught "never evers" I was exhausted and sore the next day.