MIPS less comfortable?

[Orthoski]

Tried a new helmet on, my old one doesn't have MIPS but I figured I may as well have this in a new one (admittedly the utility of the technology is still up for debate). Has anyone noticed that MIPS helmets are less comfortable? I know they shrink the helmet a bit but it's also just a thin amount of padding sitting on hard plastic. Trying to figure out if its the helmet or the technology, both my old and the new one I tried are Smith brand so no change there.

[toast2266]

I can't say I've ever found a mips helmet to be less comfortable than the same helmet in a non-mips version.

Mips is definitely warmer though.

[XXX-er]

I recently got a bell with mips and it fits fine, I have a large head and normally finding ski or bike helmets is a problem

[burrito]

I have a bit of firsthand knowledge here as a designer at Giro. There are a few different executions of MIPS, usually broken down by price point. The simplest MIPS system is an added liner made from essentially a flat, die-cut sheet of plastic that is then bent and curved to form around the head. It's generally viewed as the least comfortable because the die-cutting gives the MIPS liner somewhat sharp edges. Those edges are occasionally an issue in bike helmets due to their minimal internal padding, but because snow helmet padding usually covers more of your head it's not often an issue.

The next MIPS liner is similar in final form to the first but is a three-dimensional, injection-molded piece of plastic rather than a die-cut sheet. It will generally fit better around the helmet and your head and can have rounded edges.

At Giro our most integrated MIPS system, MIPS Spherical, isn't an added liner at all. Instead we split the helmet foam into two pieces that rotate independently around one another. No added complexity, thickness, or potential comfort issues since the interior of the helmet is exactly the same as a non-MIPS version.

[garyfromterrace]

Wow, thanks for the thorough run down burrito. My layman head knows no difference in fit from MIPS to non MIPS ski or bike helmets. All good.

[garyfromterrace]

Just thought of a question for burrito though. The thin plastic liner inside my MIPS ski helmet (the part that touches my head all round) has come loose. Can I just crazy glue that bad boy back on? Helmet is 4 years old, 300+ days, no big crashes with head strikes.

[burrito]

Just thought of a question for burrito though. The thin plastic liner inside my MIPS ski helmet (the part that touches my head all round) has come loose. Can I just crazy glue that bad boy back on? Helmet is 4 years old, 300+ days, no big crashes with head strikes.

There should be some flexible elastomer tabs extending from the shell/foam that hook into the MIPS liner and hold it loosely in place. The liner needs to be able to rotate independently from the rest of the helmet to work, so you don't want to glue it in.

[XXX-er]

I have a bit of firsthand knowledge here as a designer at Giro. .

As a Fat head ( big/ square/ flat on top think Herman Munster ) almost nothing in a store will fit me so I have been loving the Giro Atlas for biking and the G9 for ski in XL,

I broke the Atlas by falling backwards/ smacking / cracking the foam at the back, walked into a store, tried on the Bell Sixxer and it fit perfect,

all 3 lids use that same suspension with the adj wheel at the back and it is the money

[Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo]

Tried a new helmet on, my old one doesn't have MIPS but I figured I may as well have this in a new one (admittedly the utility of the technology is still up for debate). Has anyone noticed that MIPS helmets are less comfortable? I know they shrink the helmet a bit but it's also just a thin amount of padding sitting on hard plastic. Trying to figure out if its the helmet or the technology, both my old and the new one I tried are Smith brand so no change there.

I don't think MIPS is any less comfy but Smith has definitely changed their sizing or helmet shape over the years. My old Smith was an XL and fit great with room for a thin skullcap underneath and my bike helmet is an XL Smith that fits great, and it's only a few years old. I got a new ski helmet last year and had to go to an XXL and I still think I'm going to get rid of it after this season because it just doesn't fit right. It will be my last Smith ski helmet.

[kalisto]

Tried a new helmet on, my old one doesn't have MIPS but I figured I may as well have this in a new one (admittedly the utility of the technology is still up for debate). Has anyone noticed that MIPS helmets are less comfortable? I know they shrink the helmet a bit but it's also just a thin amount of padding sitting on hard plastic. Trying to figure out if its the helmet or the technology, both my old and the new one I tried are Smith brand so no change there.

noticed this with a new smith vantage MIPS. notice it when i put it on, then forget about it pretty quickly. old vantage didn't have MIPS. old one was mildly more comfortable.

[hoarhey]

I have a large head.
Older Giro's didn't fit me, then I got an Giro Edit, non-MIPS from 5-6 years ago and that was extremely comfortable?
Couldn't locate helmet before this last trip, and ended up getting a Giro Range MIPS helmet (slight pressure point, but manageable).

[XXX-er]

https://www.underarmour.ca/en-ca/p/h...SABEgIXevD_BwE

I been using the head-panties from under armour for sweat managment, they wet out and wick the sweat away so it evaps, seemed to work well even in the desert

[burrito]

On the fit side of the equation, and this varies brand by brand, older-model MIPS helmets will often fit slightly different from their original, non-MIPS version. In the early days a lot of models were simply retrofit by adding a MIPS liner, meaning the helmet would sit a couple of mm farther away from your head to account for the thickness/movement of the MIPS liner. Nowadays at Giro any new helmet with a MIPS liner takes the liner thickness/offset into account and is designed to fit the same as the non-MIPS version.

[Stewy30]

I have a large head.
Older Giro's didn't fit me, then I got an Giro Edit, non-MIPS from 5-6 years ago and that was extremely comfortable?
Couldn't locate helmet before this last trip, and ended up getting a Giro Range MIPS helmet (slight pressure point, but manageable).

I loved the edit, but it was due to be retired. Tried the Range and discovered the same issue but it was quite uncomfortable for me (pressure point temple). I decided to go to the shop this time (duh), and the Giro Ledge MIPS has the same shape and actually a little more comfortable than the edit for my head, and a hell of a lot cheaper than the range. Jackson was a close second in fit

Plus the Ledge is for sure the steeziest looking, and we all know that’s what’s most important

[MotoBeak]

Hey Burrito, since we’re around the subject, what’s your take on the effective lifespan of an EPS helmet? I‘ve worked in shops a long time so I know the sales angle of it, but wanted your insight since that’s your world.

[burrito]

Hey Burrito, since we’re around the subject, what’s your take on the effective lifespan of an EPS helmet? I‘ve worked in shops a long time so I know the sales angle of it, but wanted your insight since that’s your world.

I believe the company line (based on legit research and testing) is that EPS helmets need to be replaced every 3-5 years to remain safe. I'm not sure about EPP or other multi-impact foams. Personally I've found three years is about the max life of my helmets anyway just from general use - i.e. sweating in them, getting bounced around during travel, etc.

[Wes Mantooth]

I have a bit of firsthand knowledge here as a designer at Giro. There are a few different executions of MIPS, usually broken down by price point. The simplest MIPS system is an added liner made from essentially a flat, die-cut sheet of plastic that is then bent and curved to form around the head. It's generally viewed as the least comfortable because the die-cutting gives the MIPS liner somewhat sharp edges. Those edges are occasionally an issue in bike helmets due to their minimal internal padding, but because snow helmet padding usually covers more of your head it's not often an issue.

The next MIPS liner is similar in final form to the first but is a three-dimensional, injection-molded piece of plastic rather than a die-cut sheet. It will generally fit better around the helmet and your head and can have rounded edges.

At Giro our most integrated MIPS system, MIPS Spherical, isn't an added liner at all. Instead we split the helmet foam into two pieces that rotate independently around one another. No added complexity, thickness, or potential comfort issues since the interior of the helmet is exactly the same as a non-MIPS version.

Does the safety or effectiveness of the MIPS systems improve with these tiers or is it all the same protection and just a different in comfort? As an outsider I always saw it as either MIPS or no MIPS, not a varying degree of MIPSiness

[burrito]

Does the safety or effectiveness of the MIPS systems improve with these tiers or is it all the same protection and just a different in comfort? As an outsider I always saw it as either MIPS or no MIPS, not a varying degree of MIPSiness

I'm not sure about the data available on the snow side, but I'm pretty sure on the cycling side our higher-end MIPS Spherical helmets have generally scored better than our regular MIPS models on UVA's independent testing scale. As far as I know, though, I don't think there's an agreed upon standard within the industry for testing the efficacy of rotational systems.

[garyfromterrace]

There should be some flexible elastomer tabs extending from the shell/foam that hook into the MIPS liner and hold it loosely in place. The liner needs to be able to rotate independently from the rest of the helmet to work, so you don't want to glue it in.

Ah shit, thought so. One of the tabs is broke, that's why the problem. Damn. Guess I should just retire her eh? I think I read you say 3yrs is a good life for a helmet anyway? Thanks for the info!

[XXX-er]

On the fit side of the equation, and this varies brand by brand, older-model MIPS helmets will often fit slightly different from their original, non-MIPS version. In the early days a lot of models were simply retrofit by adding a MIPS liner, meaning the helmet would sit a couple of mm farther away from your head to account for the thickness/movement of the MIPS liner. Nowadays at Giro any new helmet with a MIPS liner takes the liner thickness/offset into account and is designed to fit the same as the non-MIPS version.

I was very suprised the Bell product fit me cuz none of them ever have even come close

How do you helmet designers come up with sizes and profiles ??

[burrito]

How do you helmet designers come up with sizes and profiles ??

We have a standardized set of head forms that are the starting point for any design (just like a last is for any piece of footwear.) I wasn't around at the time the team created the head forms, so I don't know how they originally arrived at those general head shapes and sizes, but when a brand consistently does or doesn't fit any given customer it's usually a mismatch between their head shape and the brand's head form. Some people have very circular heads, some more oval, and the same goes for helmet brands' head forms. For instance I can't wear any Fox mountain bike helmets because they have a very square forehead, but I have plenty of friends that love them.

There are a thousand other smaller things that can affect fit, but the starting head form is the biggest.

[XXX-er]

cool ^^ by the same token I am a specialized bike shoe guy

and I was a giro helmet guy till i strayed to the dark side (bell)

thanx for the tourist info !

[waxman]

Sweet Protection fit differently between MIPS and non mips, so much so that I can'twear the bike mips ones, ski I can make fit as there is more padding etc.

[axebiker]

Glad I'm not the only person who finds the MIPS helmets less comfortable. Also don't know who the fuck all these people are with perfectly round shaped heads?!? I used to have NO issues finding a comfortable, good-fitting helmet, but now it seems that pain is just part of the game with helmets now. Makes me REALLY miss my old Bern Watts HardHat. Smith doesn't fit me for shit, nor does Giro, Salomon, or POC.

[XXX-er]

one of us is wierd