Official Sprocket Rockets Training Thread

[J. Barron DeJong]

That seems like a lot of work. Now I just spend $21 for 5 Awesome Sauce packs to get that same 80g. For my next century, 25 of those bad boys should fit just perfectly in my jersey.

Seriously though - seems like a total debacle. I just assumed nutrition labels on sports nutrition were regulated, but it sounds like it's not?

Nutrition labels are definitely regulated. Whether the regulators are able to verify them all is a different matter.

[Dantheman]

Seriously though - seems like a total debacle. I just assumed nutrition labels on sports nutrition were regulated, but it sounds like it's not?

Legally gels might be considered supplements, not food, in which case there's almost no regulation. Even for food, ±20% is perfectly legal and even then the FDA does little fact checking of the data reported by companies.

[J. Barron DeJong]

“[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.75)]The FDA does not regulate nutrition fact panels on a proactive basis, so you don't have to get its sign-off before printing your new label. But if it finds a business or individual is incorrectly or improperly reporting nutritional facts on their food labels, it will issue a recall of your product. This can lead to a frustrating and expensive "Spot Check."”

[/COLOR]https://www.onlinelabels.com/article...your%20recipe.

[PeachesNCream]

Throwing this out there because it seems relevant. Supplements are not regulated the same way as food. Seems like it’s pretty “flexible” what you can put on the label. This is coming from a buddy who owns a supplement company. That’s why “third party tested” is important. Not sure if energy gels are considered a food or a supplement.

Edit: looks like dtm beat me to it


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[J. Barron DeJong]

They use a nutrition label:



If you use a nutrition label, you need to follow nutrition labeling regulations.

Example of supplement label:

[XtrPickels]

Hey Team,
On the other side of the microphone for once.

My anterior chain has always been tight, but it's never been much of an issue other than some strain while running downhill.
However, it seems to be catching up with me and I'm running into a host of SI Joint / Piriformis / Sciatic issues that may be related.
Regardless, when I stand I do have some anterior tilt of my pelvis and can feel some strain in my hip flexors.

For almost a year I have been stretching, dry-needling, percussion massaging, using a pso-rite, etc with no discernable difference in my ROM.

This is decreasing quality of life to the point that I'm willing to try almost anything - but I'm tired of hearing "you need to stretch more".

What has worked for you?

[PeachesNCream]

Hey Team,
On the other side of the microphone for once.

My anterior chain has always been tight, but it's never been much of an issue other than some strain while running downhill.
However, it seems to be catching up with me and I'm running into a host of SI Joint / Piriformis / Sciatic issues that may be related.
Regardless, when I stand I do have some anterior tilt of my pelvis and can feel some strain in my hip flexors.

For almost a year I have been stretching, dry-needling, percussion massaging, using a pso-rite, etc with no discernable difference in my ROM.

This is decreasing quality of life to the point that I'm willing to try almost anything - but I'm tired of hearing "you need to stretch more".

What has worked for you?

Not sure if it’s related, but I’ll throw it out there. I have had number of issues including runners knee, sciatic pain, pelvic tilt. One thing that my PT pointed out (along with tight hip flexors) was that I’m very quad dominant, my quads are much stronger than my glutes. And during extended exercises my glutes get tired and put more strain on the hip flexors, making them tight. Doing clamshell exercises with bands and focusing on activating my glutes during lunges and squats seems to have helped. Good luck


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[climberevan]

It's not specifically the same thing, but I credit deadlifts and ATG split squats with pushing several recurring issues onto the sidelines. Overall I think full ROM strength stuff is overlooked.

Ms CE has been struggling with some hip and elbow pain, and the PT she's working with is (IMO) out of ideas. I wonder if maybe these kinds of things just need new/different eyes on them.

[bean]

My anterior chain has always been tight, but it's never been much of an issue other than some strain while running downhill.
However, it seems to be catching up with me and I'm running into a host of SI Joint / Piriformis / Sciatic issues that may be related.
Regardless, when I stand I do have some anterior tilt of my pelvis and can feel some strain in my hip flexors.

I've been dealing with tight hip flexors the last several months and agree that stretching is hard to do and doesn't often result in long-term improvements. Though doing some short (30min) hip-focused yoga videos does help, at least short term, when I actually have time and do it. Maybe if I can actually stick it with some consistency I'll see some improvement, but I have low confidence that I'll stick to it.

So, going the complete opposite direction, what sort of heavy strength training are you doing? Anything that gets your hip flexors stretched at the limits? Thinking squats, deadlifts, RDLs for bilateral, but even better stuff like BSS or ATG split squats (front foot elevated split squats)? When I was able to get back to doing the BSS and ATGs with some moderate weight the hip tightness issues started improving quickly.

Have you had xrays or other assessments done to try to determine the root cause of your issues? I had hip ROM and occasional pain issues for years with no idea what was causing it until I went and got xrayed and more stretching wasn’t going to get it done.

[XtrPickels]

Great thoughts already.
Bean- Re: Imaging. I have head X-rays and do have an anterior tilt, but I do not have any impingement issues, etc.

Group- Re. Strengthening of the posterior chain - If I'm being honest, not enough. I do think this is leading to accessory muscles getting involved when they shouldn't, which is likely leading to my piriformis / sciatic issues. The issue I'm running into at the moment is that I'm not able to focus in this area because of pain. (e.g. Walking is currently excruciating)

My thought was
1. Focus on anterior ROM to relieve strain and pain
2. Strengthen posterior chain once I'm functional again.

But I do think you're right in that I need to address glutes, hamstrings, etc. to ultimately solve this issue.

[bean]

What part of walking and where is painful?

You mentioned stretching but are you doing any of the typical glute PT exercises? Crab walks, front/back monster walks, banded raises, glute bridges etc.?

Is it painful to do the motions required for strength training? If possible you might be better off flipping 1 and 2 in your plan. Assuming your hip flexors are inflamed some functional time under tension may help with healing better than “just” stretching.

It's a reverse of your situation but for me there's not much better of a posterior chain stretch than what I get at the bottom of a relatively-heavy squat or deadlift.

[XXX-er]

I spent a weekend with an ultra coach who told me the problem is that whatever you eat might during an ultra might make you sick/ bonk

Buddy skied climbed 27500 ft while skiing 36kms in < 13 hrs which was fucking amazing

[PeachesNCream]

+1 to gaining flexibility through full range of motion exercises like atg split squats, elevated deadlift, etc. I’ve noticed more improvement that sticks around longer vs static stretching


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[ironhippy]

I also attribute strength training (squats/deadlifts) to helping with hip issues, however if you are in pain just walking, I certainly wouldn't recommend jumping into strength training.

[basinbeater]

The last episode of fast talk labs, about mental training, and goal setting, etc... really good. I think I am going to make my kid listen to it. Cause lots of applications to tons of things in life.

[fool]

Anyone ever use Spring Energy?

Sounds like their "Awesome Sauce" with a claimed 45g/carbs actually only contains 16g/carbs. Pretty wild. Score one for Reddit scientists as this started there a few months back, but appears to be mostly confirmed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultramarath...rbs_confirmed/

Wild. And not totally surprised. When I was using Awesome Sauce for lots of trail runnung I had the thought "I can't believe this has that many calories." I trusted it - because why wouldn't I - but I certainly didn't feel like as many calories as equivalent amounts of other gels.

Disappointing for sure.


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[fool]

Hey Team,
On the other side of the microphone for once.

My anterior chain has always been tight, but it's never been much of an issue other than some strain while running downhill.
However, it seems to be catching up with me and I'm running into a host of SI Joint / Piriformis / Sciatic issues that may be related.
Regardless, when I stand I do have some anterior tilt of my pelvis and can feel some strain in my hip flexors.

For almost a year I have been stretching, dry-needling, percussion massaging, using a pso-rite, etc with no discernable difference in my ROM.

This is decreasing quality of life to the point that I'm willing to try almost anything - but I'm tired of hearing "you need to stretch more".

What has worked for you?

That sounds brutal, Pickels. Sorry to hear.

Have you seen a PT yet? I imagine you know the Boulder PT scene. I also have a acupuncture recommendation if useful - she works on a lot of the high performing endurance athletes up there and is great. Feel free to DM for the rec.

Also if it's not too much, I know a lot of people love the Foundation Back Routine. Even if you can't do the whole video, perhaps some of exercises are useful. I know people who swear by it: https://youtu.be/oVOnXIiPgM8?si=0srIPdWG8B3J-XDK


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[Dantheman]

No idea if this will help or not, but a couple of years ago I was having some hip flexor issues from skiing and fixed it by going at all the muscles around my hip with a lacrosse ball Kelly Starrett-style.

[basinbeater]

I had sharp pain developing on the outside of one hip about a year ago. I've been seeing a PT now about once a month for the last year. It took a while, but now I have measurably greater range of motion, and exercises with resistance bands have helped strengthen flexor muscles. Pain in the hip is not 100% eliminated, but is like 95% gone. I would probably benefit from more consistent thorough stretching. I get 3 really solid sessions in a week, and I think 5 or 6 a week would lead to continued improvement. My x rays did not show any damage, so initial diagnosis was bursitis. Stretches focus on hip flexibility and core flexibility, like psoas. But the PT has been invaluable.

[fool]

I sent Spring Energy's awesomesauce off to a commercial food lab for analysis.
Results-
75 cal vs 180 on the label
18 g CHO vs 45 on the label

From Jason Koop's Twitter and more on the Reddit Megathread

Spring's other gels also came back lower than advertised. Not a good look.

[Dantheman]

Yeah, that was discussed a little ways back. Either gross incompetence or fraud, neither is a good look. But, FWIW, my larger take is that whole food gels are completely stupid to begin with and I can barely bring myself to feel sorry for the people who bought into the scam.

[fool]

Yeah, that was discussed a little ways back. Either gross incompetence or fraud, neither is a good look. But, FWIW, my larger take is that whole food gels are completely stupid to begin with and I can barely bring myself to feel sorry for the people who bought into the scam.

Oh yeah. I saw that - I guess my post above could have been more clear that the evidence is significantly more conclusive now. Multiple samples tested in a lab, multiple flavors, etc. So wanted to share the update with everyone.

On that note, have homemade gels been discussed in this thread? I imagine they’re less used/important for cycling - given ability to carry more items than running - but I’m curious if anyone’s made them (something like Skratch high carb). Would/could it be the same mixture as we’ve discussed before - white sugar, electrolytes, flavoring - but mixed with less water and perhaps warmer water, to enable super saturation?


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[Dantheman]

Ah, sorry, I didn't realize new shit had come to light. It's nice that he got a real lab test to back up his claim, but really his home dehydrator experiment was definitive.

I so don't think it's worth the effort to make up individual little packets. For running, my big vest holds a 500 ml soft bottle on the shoulder strap. I fill that with 200 g of sugar, 1/2 tsp each fine table salt and potassium citrate, flavoring (usually powered lemon juice), and maybe a little citric acid. Top off with water and shake. It all dissolves easily.

I sip on that bottle and make one last 2-3 hours depending on pace and how much I supplement with solid food. Carry extra measured bags of the mix as needed. That way you don't carry any useless water weight.

[jamal]

got a new thing



The smart trainer a couple years ago was the first step I suppose. Gravel bike has power too. Just tracking load and fatigue and time in zones and such has made a pretty good difference. I think I'm faster now than I've ever been, but also i'm an amateur who didn't start riding bikes seriously and racing until i was almost 30 (40 now).

Did some hard pedaling up the ski hill tonight to try it out. Pretty good numbers but I was a little too tired from the last week and a half to pull off a full 5x5. First 3 were fine, 4th one I called it after about a minute.

Bike is pretty dumb but does go fast uphill

[XtrPickels]

got a new thing



The smart trainer a couple years ago was the first step I suppose. Gravel bike has power too. Just tracking load and fatigue and time in zones and such has made a pretty good difference. I think I'm faster now than I've ever been, but also i'm an amateur who didn't start riding bikes seriously and racing until i was almost 30 (40 now).

Did some hard pedaling up the ski hill tonight to try it out. Pretty good numbers but I was a little too tired from the last week and a half to pull off a full 5x5. First 3 were fine, 4th one I called it after about a minute.

Bike is pretty dumb but does go fast uphill

I've been meaning to get a dumb but fast bike myself.
My Quarqs have been rock-solid.

Update on my Piriformis / Sciatica.
Went full nuclear option with oral steroids - felt great for a couple days then right back to agony.
Currently sitting here with a TENs unit that helps a bit.
Next Step is an MRI to see if there's something major going on