Official Sprocket Rockets Training Thread

[Dantheman]

That will probably get you to the finish line. Be sure to also do some strength training. If you can bump the Z2 hours up to 7-8 hours you'll see dividends.

[dan_pdx]

That will probably get you to the finish line. Be sure to also do some strength training. If you can bump the Z2 hours up to 7-8 hours you'll see dividends.

7-8 hours of Z2 and some interval work, or 100% Z2?

[Falcon3]

, just had a post get vanished, I guess that was the mods telling me to be more concise.

I'm in reasonably crappy shape and want to train for a 150 miles/10k feet of climbing ride in late July (RAMROD). For the time being I'd like to keep it to 3 days a week, no more than 6 hours/week. I'm thinking two interval workouts/TGR rides or other harder workouts during the week, and then a long slow ride on the weekend. Then I'd ramp up my time in March or so.

Any suggestions, recommendations, or hilarious comments?

Coming from "reasonably crappy shape" I'd concentrate the winter on mostly Z2 rides (6+hours) and gym work (1-2x a week depending on how much you already do), *maybe* one TGR ride if that and only if if doesn't make you too sore to do the other training. Group rides tend to be Z3 and are easy to turn into "junk miles" that don't stress you enough for adaptation but also don't provide much aerobic benefit. When spring comes along, you can start to add in some intensity. If you have a big enough aerobic base it's fairly easy to add intensity and see good improvement in a short time than if you're hammering intensity and lacking the base work.

[Iowagriz]

Falcon said what I'd recommend as well. The only thing I'd add is that you'd be better off with 6hrs over 5 days vs. 3 days. Consistent 1hr days with some longer weekends will get you better results over the winter. The goal should be to come out off winter with fitness to start piling the miles on.

Start with 6hr weeks and gradually increase to 10-12(?) by Spring.

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[XtrPickels]

I agree with the training advice above - but will add that I think everyone should keep 1 day of Intensity at a minimum in their training. This can be 6 to 8 sprints in your otherwise zone 2 day, but to go weeks without any work above zone 2 is typically not beneficial for the general athlete.

Also - in that knee pain quote on the last page Phil used the term "Bilateral joint muscle" when he meant "Biarticulate muscle".

[helldriven]

I have done RamRod many times and have nothing but good memories from those days. Basically 3 climbs, don't remember anything too steep. Training wise, I would double up the distance meaning 3-4hr hard ride on a Saturday and a LSD ride on the next day to get use to the distance. Always tried to be up to 5 hrs in the saddle by end of May. I would always to STP in one day as well prior to RamRod.

[Dantheman]

Say car RamRod!

[54-46]

, just had a post get vanished, I guess that was the mods telling me to be more concise.

I'm in reasonably crappy shape and want to train for a 150 miles/10k feet of climbing ride in late July (RAMROD). For the time being I'd like to keep it to 3 days a week, no more than 6 hours/week. I'm thinking two interval workouts/TGR rides or other harder workouts during the week, and then a long slow ride on the weekend. Then I'd ramp up my time in March or so.

Any suggestions, recommendations, or hilarious comments?

You’ll want a base. LSD is helpful. (Long slow distance.)

Riding hard all the time is not as helpful as variable goals for the different training rides when trying to gain endurance as well as speed.

When I did centuries my goal before tapering was at least as many hours per week as the day of the ride and one of them lasting about 65%-75% of hours on day of ride.

6.5 hour ride? Get to do a 4 to 4.5 hour ride easily. (Or like 75-80 miles a couple weeks before a century.)

For that much climbing (10K) the power advice above is helpful.

For 10 - 11 hours of riding, you might need 3x2 to 2.5 hours and 1x5 hours by end of June so you’re strong before tapering.

I used to read the Joe Friel training books 20 years ago. I’m sure there’s more updated stuff now.


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[Dantheman]

I wouldn't disagree with any of that, but it *can* be done with less. I ran a 50k that had 12k of climbing at elevation (up to 11k) on 3 months of 2x intervals, a long run on the weekend, and a couple lifting days. I was way off the winner's pace but finished in the top third of finishers and the race had a 25% DNF rate. I was 28 at the time though.

My main point is don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Train as much as you can even if it's less than "ideal" and then go send it. There's a lot more to finishing a big day than just fitness.

[Dantheman]

https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/...p-pro-cycling/

[EWG]

https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/...p-pro-cycling/

Now I want burgers.

[Iowagriz]

I'll somewhat contradict my advice above on building base/endurance during the winter. I just had this YouTube video land on my feed last night. If I understood correctly, they pushed quick and hard workouts on indoor trainers. The theory is that it is already boring, so knock something out short and hard. Still come out of winter fit and push for endurance in the spring. Reverse periodization, if I heard them correct. Anyway, some other good advice within the video to get ready for a full day of riding.

https://youtu.be/daLIJZkTvcM?si=x3ImmPJL98Jdweqa

[XtrPickels]

https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/...p-pro-cycling/

Yup.
Kiel said this specifically in a podcast that we did about Ketones. He was like "I just think everyone is eating more".

I did ~400-500kcal an hour all the way across Portugal and it was glorious.

[XtrPickels]

I'll somewhat contradict my advice above on building base/endurance during the winter. I just had this YouTube video land on my feed last night. If I understood correctly, they pushed quick and hard workouts on indoor trainers. The theory is that it is already boring, so knock something out short and hard. Still come out of winter fit and push for endurance in the spring. Reverse periodization, if I heard them correct. Anyway, some other good advice within the video to get ready for a full day of riding.

https://youtu.be/daLIJZkTvcM?si=x3ImmPJL98Jdweqa

Not sure what part of the video you're referring to and not enough time to watch it, so I'm making assumptions.
At this point I've very much moved away from yearly periodization. E.g. Winter is all about base - only keep it in the small-ring, etc.

Weekly hours tend to fluctuate with the weather and daylight, but for the most part my low vs. high intensity is relatively similar throughout the year.

[Iowagriz]

Chapter 4, 8:08 mark, but specifically closer to 9:10 and beyond.

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[Dantheman]

Yup.
Kiel said this specifically in a podcast that we did about Ketones. He was like "I just think everyone is eating more".

I did ~400-500kcal an hour all the way across Portugal and it was glorious.

A key takeaway seems to be that it's only remotely possible with concentrated liquid calories. The quantities of whole foods required are prohibitive.

[climberevan]

As I've been crowing about for some time: fucking table sugar, and a lot of it! I certainly don't have the budget for whatever fancy version Marten or whatever has come up with to get a 2% benefit.

I have a friend who does a reverse periodization with success. It's appealing for those who live in cold places. 20h /wk of riding is tough in January! But yearly periodization assumes a traditional race schedule, and fewer people are doing that anymore. Events and races kind of just come up at any old time now, so it makes sense to just work backwards from your primary one. Or just try to stay sort of fit all the time and then do tune up stuff for 6 weeks or so before an event.

[XtrPickels]

A key takeaway seems to be that it's only remotely possible with concentrated liquid calories. The quantities of whole foods required are prohibitive.

Correct. Another caveat is that the volume of fluid needs to be high enough that the solution isn't too hypertonic to cause GI distress. I can consume that many calories when I'm 750ml+ per hour, but not when I'm ~500ml. So, it's actually harder to pull off when it's colder and I'm less of a sweaty bastard.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/...p-pro-cycling/

Counterpoint: https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mar...-blood-doping/

Although it seems unlikely these are actually in use, but count me as skeptical that carbs alone are responsible for the highest power numbers and speeds at the TdF this year.

[Dantheman]

Counterpoint: https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mar...-blood-doping/

Whoa

"Hemarina claims lugworm haemoglobin is a universal blood substitute that can transport 40 times more oxygen than human haemoglobin. It is 250 times smaller than other red blood cells, which helps circulation. It is compatible with all blood groups, doesn’t increase blood hematocrit or cause high blood pressure like bovine or human haemoglobin. It can be stored at room temperature and freeze-dried, making it easy to transport."

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

Right? Pretty crazy. It's odd that it's suggested this is a non-issue, but then this too:

They highlighted that while lugworm hemoglobin has not been clinically approved as an oxygen carrier, a graft preservative for transplant procedures containing lugworm Hb has been approved for medical use in Europe, “which makes the drug readily available for cheating athletes.”

“Even though clinical approval for in vivo use as oxygen carrier is still missing, a graft preservative for transplant procedures containing lugworm Hb as active ingredient M101 has recently obtained the CE marking allowing its marketing as a medical device for ex vivo usage in Europe, which makes the drug readily available for cheating athletes.”

Also, does anyone know if you can raise marine lugworms in your garden? Asking for a friend.

[J. Barron DeJong]

‘aka sand worm’?

Just catch one and you should have more than a lifetime supply.

[XtrPickels]

‘aka sand worm’?

Just catch one and you should have more than a lifetime supply.

Mix a little worm haemoglobin and a little spice and you're gonna have a good time...

[climberevan]

I figured they were doing something new that we hadn't heard of, but I def wouldn't have put my money on worm hemoglobin.

[dan_pdx]

Thanks everyone for chiming in on my ramrod training question. The last time I did a ride longer than 100 mi I was in my 30s, bike commuting everyday (which was really just 2 30 minute interval workouts), and able to commit to a lot of training on top of that. I know I won't be that fit for ramrod, but I'd like to be fit enough that I can enjoy the experience, not just suffer through it.