Wolves are rad.

[BmillsSkier]

Saw a wolf today in the southern Wenatchee Mtns. At about 5500’ near Colockum Pass. I was confused at first, it walked across the road in front of us and stopped behind a tree with just its tail sticking out, just stood there a moment and then disappeared. My first instinct was that it wasn’t a coyote but took a minute to register that it was a wolf. Big and light silver/grey. That was about 30 miles SE and across HWY 97 from the Teanaway pack.


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Very cool. And jealous on all accounts.

[TBS]

The saga of Montana Governor Gianforte and his illegal wolf kill
When Dept Fish and Wildlife folks wouldn’t cover up the situation, Gianforte got one guy fired.

The game warden in Helena, Mont., received a phone call one morning in March 2021 with a request that he knew might not end well for him. His boss and friend at the Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks Department asked him to record officially the killing of a wolf, a fairly routine request save for one detail.

The hunter was the state’s governor, Greg Gianforte.

“I said I wanted no part of it,” the warden, Justin Hawkaluk, recalled with a barely audible chuckle.

Mr. Hawkaluk now says his sense of dread was warranted. By the time the wolf affair was settled, his superiors had pressured him to lie about the governor’s role, and his boss would be forced out of the department, he told The New York Times in his first interview about the episode. He, too, would leave a job he said he loved.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/02/u...smid=url-share

[skiJ]

The saga of Montana Governor Gianforte and his illegal wolf kill
When Dept Fish and Wildlife folks wouldn’t cover up the situation, Gianforte got one guy fired.




https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/02/u...smid=url-share

f*-ing politicians -

That is all.


skiJ

[BmillsSkier]

Not wolves, but apparently ranchers in WY are now on about wild horses?

https://www.reuters.com/legal/govern...wn-2024-09-16/

The article doesn't give much background so I'm very uninformed on how much of a burden wild horses are to ranchers other than the usual us vs. them setup to the story.


Back to wolves, it's an interesting day when the current administration wants to revert to any policy of the previous administration, especially one on the same side as the NRA, but here we are:

https://www.opb.org/article/2024/09/...r-gray-wolves/

[MagnificentUnicorn]

“Wild” horses are really hard on the rangelands. I have no problem with government culling them or catch and adopt.


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[skaredshtles]

“Wild” horses are really hard on the rangelands. I have no problem with government culling them or catch and adopt.

Yep - add in that they are a non-native animal and it *seems* like it's a no-brainer to get rid of them.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Yep - add in that they are a non-native animal and it *seems* like it's a no-brainer to get rid of them.

That’s why I put wild in quotes. If they were an exotic species that the public didn’t adore they’d have been extirpated long ago.


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[DBdude]

horses went extinct in north america 11,000 years ago. more than likely because we hunted them to extinction and or climate change

[yeahman]

“Wild” horses are really hard on the rangelands. I have no problem with government culling them or catch and adopt.


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But...but... they're so cute! Just like the wild doggies! If you touch one hair on their cute little heads I'm gonna scream.

[old goat]

Yep - add in that they are a non-native animal and it *seems* like it's a no-brainer to get rid of them.

Cows are non-native animals too.

[skaredshtles]

Cows are non-native animals too.

You're not wrong. Not sure how many feral cattle are around, though...

[Going Coastal]

I keep a 22 on the ready for invasive cows.

It's a 22in Weber Kettle Grill.

[stealurface831]

You're not wrong. Not sure how many feral cattle are around, though...

feral cattle are absolutely a thing and cause major issues.

[stealurface831]

just like their domesticated cousins.

[BmillsSkier]

I have no opinion on a “wild horse” but I appreciate the knowledge shared here.

If people are splitting hairs on species though, I’ll take a wolf over a cow that, if killed, gets reimbursed by the state (and is headed to slaughter one way or the other regardless), every day and twice on Sundays.

[yeahman]

I have no opinion on a “wild horse” but I appreciate the knowledge shared here.

If people are splitting hairs on species though, I’ll take a wolf over a cow that, if killed, gets reimbursed by the state (and is headed to slaughter one way or the other regardless), every day and twice on Sundays.

Natch. Dogs are much cuter than ugly old cows. And it's not like you rely on farmers and ranchers for food or anything. You're completely self-sufficient.

[byates1]

There is a pack of black wolves roaming around the 100000 acre ranch im on now. Hoping to see them

[BmillsSkier]

Natch. Dogs are much cuter than ugly old cows. And it's not like you rely on farmers and ranchers for food or anything. You're completely self-sufficient.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not anti-rancher either. I’m anti-“rugged individualists” who are afraid that reintroduced wolves harm them in any meaningful way when reimbursement mechanisms exist, and have a hard-on for killing anything that minimally affects their subsidized model - doubly so when they’re on public lands, but ok.

Who brought up farmers?

C’mon man.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not anti-rancher either. I’m anti-“rugged individualists” who are afraid that reintroduced wolves harm them in any meaningful way when reimbursement mechanisms exist, and have a hard-on for killing anything that minimally affects their subsidized model - doubly so when they’re on public lands, but ok.

Who brought up farmers?

C’mon man.

I doesn't really go down how you think it goes down. If you want to educate yourself, there is plenty in the local paper.

https://www.skyhinews.com/news/1-wol...er-creek-pack/

The whole situation of wolf reintroduction in Colorado has been horribly mismanaged. The reimbursement mechanisms don't come anywhere close to equitable compensation. And you have a lot of stereotypes wrapped up in the above that absolutely don't apply to the Grand County ranchers I know that have been affected.

[BmillsSkier]

I doesn't really go down how you think it goes down. If you want to educate yourself, there is plenty in the local paper.

https://www.skyhinews.com/news/1-wol...er-creek-pack/

The whole situation of wolf reintroduction in Colorado has been horribly mismanaged. The reimbursement mechanisms don't come anywhere close to equitable compensation. And you have a lot of stereotypes wrapped up in the above that absolutely don't apply to the Grand County ranchers I know that have been affected.

OK, I’ll listen.

[wendigo]

The reimbursement mechanisms don't come anywhere close to equitable compensation. And you have a lot of stereotypes wrapped up in the above that absolutely don't apply to the Grand County ranchers I know that have been affected.

Curious how much you think we (as a society) should pay people grazing animals on public lands for wolf depredations?
Since 2021 there have been 28 confirmed calf/cattle mortalities dues to wolves (plus some sheep, llamas, and dogs), 15 cattle in 2024.
Livestock purchase prices aren't particularly high.
The BLM charges 1.35 / AUM (the amount an animal eats/month)
and the average reimbursement looks to be ~$1,500 (i excluded the dogs)

[TBS]

Couple of pieces to add here…

The packs that provided seed stock for CO’s reintroduction came from the oldest and largest ones in OR. There’s been a lot of predation claims there. Also been a lot of wolves there dying from lead poisoning. So not surprised that ODFW decided to move these animals.

Was that disclosed? Don’t know but CPW could have figured it out pretty easily.

Wendigo’s grazing fees do not include surcharges. Gotta look further down in the cited article. In CO the surcharge is $6.53/AUM for total cost of $7.88. There’s also the cost of feed for the winter months when they can’t graze. No idea what it costs to raise a steer on private land.

At least in OR predation reimbursement is determined by market value of animal less cost to finish. Middle of this year cattle prices were about $150/cwt ($1.50/lb) at the processing plant So a 1500 lb steer killed by a wolf just as it’s entering the slaughterhouse chute is worth $2250.

Interesting to note that for all of the predation cases in CO this year, only three reimbursement claims were submitted.

[Conundrum]

If you guys really want to feel bad for public land cattle ranchers, read up on government subsidized pasture, rangeland, and forage (PRF) insurance. Ranchers will never talk about this heavily subsidized product with non-ranchers. Has nothing to do with wolves but has a lot to do with profitability of ranching on public land.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Cattle and sheep grazing on public land is bullshit. There is zero need for it from a market perspective the only purpose is to allow ranchers to maintain a subsidized lifestyle. Beef and lamb produced on private land provides all we “need”.


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[Foggy_Goggles]

Ha...just because I'm critical of how Wolf Reintroduction has been managed in Colorado doesn't mean I'm sympethetic to the Amon Bundy types. Nor am I all in for welfare ranching. Kinda sorta not the same thing but I guess that's how we do it society these days?

If someone could break down the Farm Bill and how it has got our entire federal political process by the nutz, that would be great. I'm free after 7:30 tonight for review.

Also look up, as Conundrum mentioned, the tampering on rain gauges out on the Eastern Plains.

As yes, the Boot Straps crowd you've whole existence is predicated on subsidies and handout of both water and land can have a pretty hypocrytical minset specially when the end game is sell it all to the highest bidder and ride off into the sunset.

But it all exists on continuum and it is a pretty big distance from large agribusiness and the All Hat No Cattle No Shit on Your Boots types to the Mom and Pop Calf Cow Outfits.