What skis like a BMT109 - inbound?

[sf]

I have groomer skis, ~100mm skis, powders skis, all of which I'm happy with. But I feel that the upper 100s never quite work out. The Rossi Ravyn / S6 was pretty good, but that's a long time ago. And on tele.

For me and my terrain a ski in the 105-110 category is a narrower ski for soft conditions, but not a powder ski as such. Nor is it a wide ski for harder snow. I have no interest in Monster 108s and it's kind.
Currently a 189 Wren108 is the only inbound ski in this waist width, and it's ok - but it's just a bit cumbersome for a lot of my daily terrain. In more open terrain it's good, but I don't feel it's a great crud ski - for some reason. A 184 might have been better for most of my days - and it's not completely of the table as an option.

After several years of touring on the BMT94 I got a pair of 109s for deeper days, probably have 15 days of touring on them by now. There's just something about that ski:
- floats very well
- handles crusts wery well
- very snappy and quick
- surprisingly good edge hold if you ski the sidecut, and don't push them too hard

I guess the main reasons for this are:
- a very moderate reverse camber
- a moderate sidecut, with a tip that's pretty straight. Almost Billygoat-like
- a very medium and even flex
- a rearwards mount - probably not that important, but works well for how I ski

So, what ski is similar to this, but with an inbounds construction? Looking for:
- A true 185-188-ish
- Reverse camber
- 25m-ish TR
- Some taper, but not so much that you loose the edgehold from the tip when put on edge
- Medium - medium+ and even flex
- Rearward mount. -8 or more
- 2000g +

Obviously, short of full custom, this might not be available. These have been considered, but neither really thrill me:
- BC Corvus. Might be one of the closest on paper. A bit more sidecut than ideal
- HOJI. Too much rocker. Too much of a pow ski. Forward mount
- Old Devastator. A bit too short. Forward mount
- Dynastar M-free 108. A lot of camber - but everyone says it's still loose. "tip like a BG". Very interesting
- BG108. Which brings me to the BG108. Might be good. Maybe a bit too damp. 184 might work for a playful ski
- WNDR. CCR, but a bit short, and forward mount
- Old Katana. Could be fun. A bit wide, and probably more ski than I want in this ski
- MVP109 CCR. Looks very good on paper, a bit forward mount. Biggest concern is that the only Praxis I really liked was the 190 BC. GPO, skinny GPO and Protest all was meh.
- Volkl One. Had it. Skied a lot like the BMT109, but was a bit short, and too much of a pow ski.
- Prior Husume. Sound a bit too much / too stiff according to Blister.

If I had to buy a ski today I'd buy the M-free or the 108bg.

What else is out there? Comparisons to the 109s feel?

I'm aware that a reverse camber ski might not be ideal for the conditions I'm trying to find this ski for - but still, I'd like to try.

[chicken feathers]

If you can find a pair Volkl 100eight seems like an option worth considering, my dd resort ski for 4 seasons
pretty much an inbounds BMT109 it seems, and it checks all the boxes for you.

I regret not picking up a pair of bmt94's when they could be had for cheap.

[volklpowdermaniac]

old katana and new bodacious, but again may be more ski

[toast2266]

I'm not sure what the answer is, but I'm on a similar search.

A couple of extra data points:
Moment Wildcat 108 - probably too forward of a mount point for your liking. Isn't really all that great in crud; more playful.
Whitedot Director - you'd be in between sizes, and mount point is probably too far forward for your liking. Maybe too much rocker? More at the playful end, but it's a fun ski.
Blizzard Cochise seems worth looking at. Maybe more ski than you're wanting? But they're not a difficult ski, at least compared to some of the true chargers.
The Nordica Enforcer 104 seems worth considering (although I haven't skied that version). The stated radius is short, but as with a lot of skis these days, the radius number is a bit bullshitty.
I didn't particularly like the Volkl 100eight. Didn't have the smoothness of the better volkl models. Felt like they'd neutered some of their better skis to make them more tourist friendly.

[Lord Thomas]

I think the ski you're looking for is the Vwerks Katana. I've been touring on the bmt 94 and 109 for the past few years and love them both. Recently I was able to put a 94 and VW Katana side by side and it almost looks like the 94 came out of the same rocker form. Similar flex throughout as well. So you might just think of the katana as a 110ish mm 94 that was beefed up for inbounds use. I've got a total boner for all of those skis.

[ASP]

I have a Husume and have skied a Wren 108. They are very similar skis. I would say the Husume is a little looser on hard pack and easier to scrub speed/slarve around. Husume also better in deep snow. Wren better in firm snow. Maybe a carbon Husume would be the ticket...bit more playful and maneuverable with t get lighter weight..

[sf]

If you can find a pair Volkl 100eight seems like an option worth considering, my dd resort ski for 4 seasons
pretty much an inbounds BMT109 it seems, and it checks all the boxes for you.

Yeah, I sort of forgot the 100eight. But they get a lot of meh reviews as well. But Blister liked them, and Forward is a bigger guy

old katana and new bodacious, but again may be more ski

A bit more ski, and also a bit wider than what I'm looking for. But like the 100eight, a used pair of Katanas could be fun to try

I think the ski you're looking for is the Vwerks Katana. I've been touring on the bmt 94 and 109 for the past few years and love them both. Recently I was able to put a 94 and VW Katana side by side and it almost looks like the 94 came out of the same rocker form. Similar flex throughout as well. So you might just think of the katana as a 110ish mm 94 that was beefed up for inbounds use. I've got a total boner for all of those skis.

Makes sense, but I still feel it's a bit light / "carbony" for 100% inbounds use

I'm not sure what the answer is, but I'm on a similar search.

A couple of extra data points:
Moment Wildcat 108 - probably too forward of a mount point for your liking. Isn't really all that great in crud; more playful.
Whitedot Director - you'd be in between sizes, and mount point is probably too far forward for your liking. Maybe too much rocker? More at the playful end, but it's a fun ski.
Blizzard Cochise seems worth looking at. Maybe more ski than you're wanting? But they're not a difficult ski, at least compared to some of the true chargers.
The Nordica Enforcer 104 seems worth considering (although I haven't skied that version). The stated radius is short, but as with a lot of skis these days, the radius number is a bit bullshitty.
I didn't particularly like the Volkl 100eight. Didn't have the smoothness of the better volkl models. Felt like they'd neutered some of their better skis to make them more tourist friendly.

The Director is too short/long - but I've previously considered the R108. Camber, but not that much. As long as it's not too stiff that might be an alternative.
I've skied the original Cochise. Good ski, but not what I'm looking for. More of a wider hard-snow ski in my mind
The Enforcers I've been on hasn't been quite it. I'll have a look at the 104

I have a Husume and have skied a Wren 108. They are very similar skis. I would say the Husume is a little looser on hard pack and easier to scrub speed/slarve around. Husume also better in deep snow. Wren better in firm snow. Maybe a carbon Husume would be the ticket...bit more playful and maneuverable with t get lighter weight..

I'll search around. No dealers in Norway, so hard to see/ski before buying

[stuntmanbo]

I’ve owned the BMT 109, 94, 100eight, and owns several pairs of katana vw.
Yes, the VW Katana is a bit light and carbony for resort use.
I didn’t like the 100eight that much, it felt dead and not much float to me.
The 176 bmt 109 was livelier and more float than the 181 100eight.
Honestly there is no good answer.
I think the closest would be the Corvus, and the dynafit chugach (previous heavier beast 108) if you can find one.
Personally, I switched from the bmt 109 cause I wasn’t happy with hard snow grip and performance for the alps.
Now I use the katana vw, and I also have bought a wayback 106 (not skied yet), but the wayback has camber and is light.
For resort around 109 I have the bmx 105, I like them, but again it’s cambered, quite different vs the bmt.
The Hoji is way more rockered than the bmt 109, not versatile, at least in the alps, if you’re skiing perfect snow all the time maybe it’s different.
If I was you I’ll try to demo the 188 BC Corvus ...

I also own a 14 (métal) Katana 184, it’s too stiff and too much ski for me ...

[hick]

Another vote for the 108 in a 189. I have BMT 94s that I absolutely adore. The 10eight has a similar rocker line. I have STH2’s on them and they feel like they have a fair bit of heft to them. I really enjoy them in the low tide conditions at Bridger these days as they carve and slarve well. Find the cheapest pair you can though, cause that half sidewall thing they have going on is really weak. I bought mine for $70 so I could care less when I add a new edge compression, but I’d be pissed if I had paid even $200 for a pair. Moral of the story, I enjoy the 10eight and feel that Paul Forwards review on Blister is actually pretty spot on for that ski, easy to find and usually some cheap ones floating around.


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[stuntmanbo]

Hick is right, forgot that, my 100eights delaminated after 20 days ... No issue with the vwerks

[kid-kapow]

The M-Free 108 192 is the ski you are looking for.

Based on 182s (ridden back to back with woodsman108s over several days), where I have a couple of days on BMT109s this season as well:

No, they do not pivot as effortlessly in soft snow as BMT109s, but makes up for it with actual suspension in variable while being incredibly loose in soft snow for being a cambered ski with a bit of heft.

No, they do not charge as hard as say woodsman or katana at full throttle and the tips flap a bit, but they rally plenty hard and are way livelier on piste. The forgiving flex pattern in the tails makes one able to ski them similarly to BMT109 in minigolf terrain imho, in spite of being longer and having camber. The tails are more forgiving than wren108s at slower speeds imho.

No, it does not feel like they have the edge grip of a full titanal ski (probably due to the short effective edge), but they still have grip for days and days.

And yes, though they ski short they are still a shit load of fun on everything from groomers to variable to minigolf to pow. Excellent resort daily driver imho.

So yes, the hype is real for us directional skiers that still want something that can rally, be playful and skis well at lower speeds for when one does not want to charge. Woodsman108s are a lot of fun too, but is way more ski imho and needs speed and a bit of commitment to shine (but when they shine they are very, very good).

I would not get BG108s as a resort daily driver - you give up too much groomer performance imho, where M-Free 108s strike a very good compromise between piste performance and soft snow looseness imho.

[1000-oaks]

Haven't skied it yet, but sounds like you're looking for the new Katana 108 if you want a heavier, mild rocker, harder-carving Volkl feel.

[SkiLyft]

Owned 2 pairs of 100eights (first delamed after 5 days). Honestly it was MEH! Piste performance was good but off piste found it kind of dead. Didn’t float well. And tails didn’t do it for me, maybe I don’t get along with full rocker but whatevs.


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[mr_pretzel]

The husume aint it, stiffer than a wren108 and wouldn’t be that fun for quick norwegian terrain.
Bg108 is a cool ski, but is just as boring a groomers as the wide ski, again not something you want in norvege.
I think you might find the 192 mfree a bit combersome similar to the wren 108.

Only option is the BC corvus for the full rocker feel or like oaks said the 184 katana would probably be fun.

The old 185 cochise is exactly what this is tho, #rip

[sf]

Ok

100eight is probably out. Might try them sometime if I find a used pair very cheap. Same with reverse camber Katanas.
Re-read Blisters Husume review. Absolutely not the ski I'm looking for now. Neither is the new Katana - I think.
Hoji and Devs are out as well.
If I come upon a 1.gen Cochise I'll have a look. I really liked the 1.gen Bonafide.

108BG is still a contender. Groomer performance is not really a consideration for this ski, since it'll be a stashes/trees-ski. And I've never minded groomer crusing on my BGs as long as it's reasonably soft.

M-free 108 and Corvus most likely right now. Will have to check them out soon. The M-free should have a 187-188 size, but the material length of the 192 should be fine as long as the tails release reasonably well.

And a CCR MVP is still teasing me.....

[SoVT Joey]

I ski a 183 Corvus as my DD. I love it. It has a more forward mount then the Cochise and the katana. I wish I had a 188. But my 183 skis trees awesome on the east coast and thrashes crud. It will rip hard snow as well. It’s not as demanding as a Cochise. Cochise is another of my favorite skis though.

I want to try the new katana. I bet it will be awesome.

I think you will really like the Corvus.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I’d second the Corvus. I had the 188 and it was great, traded for the 193. They are pivot machines and rally through crud really well. I think they’re not quite as stable as some heavier skis but are a great mix of easy going maneuverability and stability. They are surprisingly good in powder and anything but boilerplate. The blister review is right on. Go long.


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[Norseman]

fwiw, I replaced my BMT109 with BG108t and find that they outperform in every category.

Athough they fill the same quiver slot for me, I wouldn't say they ski that similarly. Balance point is larger on the BGs... tail is more supportive and the ski can be driven harder. They float better in pow but more from the tips... BMTs have a wider tail and do better with a sideways slarve whereas the BG carries a driven turn more completely. BG res shape is undeflectable while the BMT gets kicked once in a while.

Bottom line for me: BMT needs more attention and balance, BG is more intuitive.

[kid-kapow]

dammit Norse. Now you made me want a pair of BG108ts too...

[sf]

So, two more for the Corvus. Noted

fwiw, I replaced my BMT109 with BG108t and find that they outperform in every category.

Athough they fill the same quiver slot for me, I wouldn't say they ski that similarly. Balance point is larger on the BGs... tail is more supportive and the ski can be driven harder. They float better in pow but more from the tips... BMTs have a wider tail and do better with a sideways slarve whereas the BG carries a driven turn more completely. BG res shape is undeflectable while the BMT gets kicked once in a while.

Bottom line for me: BMT needs more attention and balance, BG is more intuitive.

Interesting. The BG108t would probably have been my choice before the BMT - had they been available last year. Pretty much same weight, no?
And very likely as a future replacement. But my former pair of BMT94 lasted 40-50 days over 4 years before I sold them and got a new pair. And I sold them because the trade made sense economically, not because they were close to dying. Expect the 109s to have a similar life-span.

How do you feel/think about the BG108-shape as a inbounds ski? As mentioned above, I really don't mind skiing my 186 BG (RES) on softer groomers. It's a way of transporting myself to another stash.

[TAFKALVS]

So, two more for the Corvus. Noted



Interesting. The BG108t would probably have been my choice before the BMT - had they been available last year. Pretty much same weight, no?
And very likely as a future replacement. But my former pair of BMT94 lasted 40-50 days over 4 years before I sold them and got a new pair. And I sold them because the trade made sense economically, not because they were close to dying. Expect the 109s to have a similar life-span.

How do you feel/think about the BG108-shape as a inbounds ski? As mentioned above, I really don't mind skiing my 186 BG (RES) on softer groomers. It's a way of transporting myself to another stash.

Having skied the mfree108, 188 corvus, and a 186 108 billygoat I'd say the corvus and the mfree108 are a better resort shape. I disliked the feel of the corvus on firmer snow with the reverse camber (can feel a little harsh) but they are really fun in soft snow. The Billygoat108 and mfree108 are really similar in soft off-piste but the mfree is much on firmer snow and on groomers. But I don't think you could go wrong with all 3. Maybe just get all 3 and sell the 2 you don't like?

[SoVT Joey]

Having skied the mfree108, 188 corvus, and a 186 108 billygoat I'd say the corvus and the mfree108 are a better resort shape. I disliked the feel of the corvus on firmer snow with the reverse camber (can feel a little harsh) but they are really fun in soft snow. The Billygoat108 and mfree108 are really similar in soft off-piste but the mfree is much on firmer snow and on groomers. But I don't think you could go wrong with all 3. Maybe just get all 3 and sell the 2 you don't like?

I agree with all of these statements, the Corvus will do hard snow and ice, you just have to be on it. All in all, I still grab for them just about every day. In fact they are sitting next to my door for tomorrow. And I wished I had them today, Poor choice to leave them home

[jorion]

dammit Norse. Now you made me want a pair of BG108ts too...

Yeah seriously. Regular Billy goats and bmt109s are probably my two favorite skis.

[Rob Stokes]

V-werx katana is an unreal ski. Way more capable in the resort than you'd think. I ski it as my resort ski with shifts and tour on BMT 109 with Alpinist.

I used to have kingpins on the katana and didn't like them on harder snow as much, now, with some elasticity through the toe of my shifts I love them and ski then constantly.

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[Norseman]

Interesting. The BG108t would probably have been my choice before the BMT - had they been available last year. Pretty much same weight, no?
And very likely as a future replacement. But my former pair of BMT94 lasted 40-50 days over 4 years before I sold them and got a new pair. And I sold them because the trade made sense economically, not because they were close to dying. Expect the 109s to have a similar life-span.

How do you feel/think about the BG108-shape as a inbounds ski? As mentioned above, I really don't mind skiing my 186 BG (RES) on softer groomers. It's a way of transporting myself to another stash.

108BG is still a contender. Groomer performance is not really a consideration for this ski, since it'll be a stashes/trees-ski. And I've never minded groomer crusing on my BGs as long as it's reasonably soft.

The 186cm BMT 109 is like 1750g and the 189cm BG108t is about 1800g. Pretty damn close. The 50/50 build or the full bamboo core would be more stable on a mass basis, of course, if you're planning on skiing them inbounds frequently.

If you don't mind the ride of the regular BG on piste, then you'd only see improved piste manners with the narrower width. I was blown away by the edging quickness of the 108. It's not optimized for piste skiing but does just fine between stashes.

Having skied the mfree108, 188 corvus, and a 186 108 billygoat I'd say the corvus and the mfree108 are a better resort shape. I disliked the feel of the corvus on firmer snow with the reverse camber (can feel a little harsh) but they are really fun in soft snow. The Billygoat108 and mfree108 are really similar in soft off-piste but the mfree is much on firmer snow and on groomers. But I don't think you could go wrong with all 3. Maybe just get all 3 and sell the 2 you don't like?

I think LVS is right that the Dynastar is probably a better dedicated resort ski with its groomer performance. But the BG108t is a closer analog to the BMT 109 if you're aiming to replace it in the quiver.

Yeah seriously. Regular Billy goats and bmt109s are probably my two favorite skis.

BG's are a cold dead hands ski for me. I liked but never fully loved the BMT 109... they are cool as fuck and I love the V-werks build (never selling my BMT 94!) but the new paulownia builds from on3p provide direct competition with better durability and the insanely awesome RES shape for soft snow dominance. imo.