The Bootfitter’s Thread

[Skeeple]

Thanks guys. The “stock” liner shape is actually quite close so I’m not talking huge changes, just enough to “reset”

suppose last question for actual boot fitters is any idea of the pressure (psi) on the foot in a boot? i.e. can correlate that pressure- presumably enough to move the foam during molding, to how high a vacuum I should pull.




Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[gregL]

suppose last question for actual boot fitters is any idea of the pressure (psi) on the foot in a boot? i.e. can correlate that pressure- presumably enough to move the foam during molding, to how high a vacuum I should pull.

Actual bootfitters will sell you a new liner and move on to their next appointment.

[Skeeze]

This isn't a bootfitting question per se, but could use some expert advice. As I was getting my boots ready for the season (slow start here...), I noticed a lot of cuff slop in my 21/22 Cochise 130s (the current generation). Is this going to be a serious issue, or am I imagining things? Two quick videos that show it pretty well -- both boots have the same slop and have been skied around 75 days.

https://youtube.com/shorts/dyNziJ5Au...GYDd4IMuLaEBzs

https://youtube.com/shorts/RpgD9A_ET...PSCeL1IXk00rU9

[gregL]

This isn't a bootfitting question per se, but could use some expert advice. As I was getting my boots ready for the season (slow start here...), I noticed a lot of cuff slop in my 21/22 Cochise 130s (the current generation). Is this going to be a serious issue, or am I imagining things? Two quick videos that show it pretty well -- both boots have the same slop and have been skied around 75 days.

https://youtube.com/shorts/dyNziJ5Au...GYDd4IMuLaEBzs

https://youtube.com/shorts/RpgD9A_ET...PSCeL1IXk00rU9

Cuff pivot should definitely be tightened/replaced before it falls out in the field.

If you think you can feel the slop in the walk mode lever, get a Mach 1 for your inbounds boot.

[Eluder]

This isn't a bootfitting question per se, but could use some expert advice. As I was getting my boots ready for the season (slow start here...), I noticed a lot of cuff slop in my 21/22 Cochise 130s (the current generation). Is this going to be a serious issue, or am I imagining things? Two quick videos that show it pretty well -- both boots have the same slop and have been skied around 75 days.

https://youtube.com/shorts/dyNziJ5Au...GYDd4IMuLaEBzs

https://youtube.com/shorts/RpgD9A_ET...PSCeL1IXk00rU9

my 120's are just like this.

[Skeeze]

Visited a few reputable shops today and consensus is that they’re definitely shot—loose + ovalized. Replacing with a pair of Mach1 MVs which are a very similar fit.

Thanks all!

[jski171]

Is anyone heat molding grilamid shells that aren’t memory fit or custom shell with success? Anything to be worried about cooking certain boots?

[rod9301]

Grilamid is very easy to heat and shape

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

[GoldenBC]

Watch out for melting any gaiters, or super thin spots, and warping the sole, either through excessive heat or standing on uneven ground.

You can heat mold many boots though. If you’re really concerned, heat gun specific areas and heat mold the shell that way.

[jski171]

Good advice thank you

[PeaHead96]

I have Biomechanics background so do find all this stuff interesting and honestly, the more I learn and experience I have, the more I question how we bootfit. Did anybody listen to the Blister Podcast with the Moment guy, talking about fitting boots more like barefoot runners, foot splay, etc? I’ve always thought this, Skiers Manifesto dude preaches it too, but how do you execute this in reality?

Bringing this back up as I just listened to the Blister podcast with the bootfitter at Moment and am quite intrigued by his bootfitting philosophy. Like him, I tend to wear very minimal shoes at all times, except for ski boots. Which is the most maximalist shoe you can ever wear.

I'm of the strong belief that wearing arch support (i.e. Superfeet, custom orthotics) in your running shoes, hiking boots, etc. is only hurting your feet and making them weaker. As running, hiking, and generally moving around are all things that we as humans can do naturally without artificial support. That is unless you're injured.

I like this analogy: You wouldn't break your arm, put a cast on it, and then never take the cast off for the rest of your life.

All that being said, the act of sticking malleable feet into rigid plastic cages, strapping two wooden planks to those cages, and hurdling yourself down a mountain -- is in fact quite unnatural for humans. So, it makes sense to fill the arch with support (i.e. trim to fit or custom insoles).

In general, it appears that he believes footbeds should be made so that your feet are positioned as they naturally would anyways, but that those feet don't move excessively from that position.

Also, he said that he does shell fitting before making insoles. This methodology contradicts what a lot of bootfitters do, which is to make the footbed, and then place the foot and footbed into the shell in order to do shell fitting.

It's overall very interesting. I'm sure some will disagree with this, but curious to know what others think.

[GoldenBC]

I’ve been hearing a ton of discussion about limited ankle dorsiflexion and the needed adjustments to forward lean, heel height, and flex. Tonnes of discussion. Like it’s the single most overlooked piece of bootfitting knowledge.

Is it just me or is this not as big of a deal as some make it out to be. I’d estimate maybe 5% (probably way less) of the people I see have such limited ankle dorsiflexion that it interferes with ski boot mechanics.

Am I measuring wrong? Does a Kicking Horse weed out the genetically weak? Are there just a ton of dick waving podiatrist bootfitters out there that want to tell you you aren’t correctly assessing someone’s limited lateral column dorsiflexion whilst in a seated position with joints at 90:90:90?

[turnfarmer]

I’ve been hearing a ton of discussion about limited ankle dorsiflexion and the needed adjustments to forward lean, heel height, and flex. Tonnes of discussion. Like it’s the single most overlooked piece of bootfitting knowledge.

Is it just me or is this not as big of a deal as some make it out to be. I’d estimate maybe 5% (probably way less) of the people I see have such limited ankle dorsiflexion that it interferes with ski boot mechanics.

Am I measuring wrong? Does a Kicking Horse weed out the genetically weak? Are there just a ton of dick waving podiatrist bootfitters out there that want to tell you you aren’t correctly assessing someone’s limited lateral column dorsiflexion whilst in a seated position with joints at 90:90:90?

I feel it depends on your customer base. Most of the people I fit are not that good a skier/athlete. The incidence of limited ankle dorsi is probably closer to 40%. But I’ll qualify that as they are usually the problem childs that the less experienced bootfitters punt to me.

[turnfarmer]

[turnfarmer]

Best cuff expansion tool I’ve used.

[natebob]

I need some help diagnosing cause of numbness with two female customers. One has large calves, tight fit around the top of cuff. The other has pretty skinny calves but the boot is tall in relation to lower leg. I'm pretty sure I've eliminated pressure on instep, met heads or around the ankle as the culprit. In both cases I suspect pressure on either the superficial peroneal nerve, or one of he dorsal cutaneous nerves. Maybe the answer is above in turnfarmer's post with the football, or similar suggestions up-thread. Any other thoughts on relieving pressure on the calf?

[mntlion]

Does the pressure happen in the shop/when not skiing?

Are the upper cuffs removeable? Have them wear the shell lowers, liners, footbeds, and see if it happens?


What is the ankle range of motion like?

[natebob]

The numbness happens both in the shop and while skiing pretty quickly.

Removing the cuffs would require drilling out some rivets.

Ankle ROM is average.

[turnfarmer]

Maybe trace possible pressure on sural nerve.

[natebob]

Thanks turnfarmer, I'll look at that.

[turnfarmer]

What part of foot goes numb?

[natebob]

Radical Pro liners. Does anyone else feel that the stock liner in the Rad Pro doesn't take full advantage of the room in the shell? A lot of people I've helped with this boot, whether it's demoing or buying, have pressure in spots like met heads, instep or toe box in general, even after aggressive molding. I had this experience with my Rad Pros. Didn't like them very much with the stock liner, love them with a Pro Tour. My theory is that for some reason the stock Palau liner just doesn't change very much when molded, not allowing the liner to expand to use the room in the shell. For example, a person wanting more toe length, room in the toe box in general still complains of tight toes after molding. Even just looking at the liners after molding, they look smaller than they should given how roomy the shell is. In the cases I'm thinking of, I'm confident in the shell fit and that the heel is well seated in the pocket. All have had aftermarket footbeds.

[natebob]

What part of foot goes numb?

It was the two smallest toes. After much back and forth I was able trace it to calf pressure with one of these folks.

[JackSkier]

Is it true that injection liners can't be used in the boot other than that for which they were moulded?

My heavily modded Cochises are dying and I'm keen to swap to something with no walk mode and tech inserts. But the cost of upgrading to an injection liner as well might be prohibitive... I can't imagine skiing inbounds in anything else now...

[mntlion]

Is it true that injection liners can't be used in the boot other than that for which they were moulded?

My heavily modded Cochises are dying and I'm keen to swap to something with no walk mode and tech inserts. But the cost of upgrading to an injection liner as well might be prohibitive... I can't imagine skiing inbounds in anything else now...

if its a similar shell, and shape and size then yes it can be switched (we have pros moving from a 24 doberman 130 to a new 24 doberman 130 and its fine) but that will still fit, but not perfect into a 24 pro or unlimited. it WILL fit, but just not fit perfect