The Bootfitter’s Thread

[turnfarmer]

There's info on binding delta buried in theses Podcasts,

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000479212238

IIRC the second Harald Harb interview and the Tim Cafe interview are the ones that have it.

Sure enough I measured my tibia to femur ration and compared it to a ratio of what was average on an orthopo website and my tibia was relatively long versus my femur which according to what I posted before predicts I would prefer a fitter binding delta, which is true. But sample size is n=1.

When winter comes I am going to experiment on some of my customers and fellow employees.

Probably the easiest way to evaluate this is get a bunch of 1mm shims and put them under heel and toes of an alpine din/iso boot to see where testee feels most balanced.

Grip walk soles complicate this test as the rocker lifts the toe up off the floor and there seems to be no consistency to different grip walk soles and bindings. And who knows if there is consistency with how much higher the AFD is compared to where the alpine AFD would be.

[gregL]

Grip walk soles complicate this test as the rocker lifts the toe up off the floor and there seems to be no consistency to different grip walk soles and bindings. And who knows if there is consistency with how much higher the AFD is compared to where the alpine AFD would be.

Gripwalk soles do change the delta substantially standing on the floor, less so when actually in the binding due to the AFD being recessed and angled - enough that the Look Dual toes use the same setting for ISO 5355 and Gripwalk . . . I still doubt anyone has done much if any comparison testing/analzying between the two setups. I haven't heard of any manufacturers adjusting their internal boot ramp to account for the effect of Gripwalk, for instance . . .

[gregL]

Built a tool for flaring the cuff / straightening out forward lean last week. Aimed mostly at the "Big Calf Ladies" but also others with very athletic lower appendages - we used to use a vise with come curved wood fittings to protect the cuff, or have them stand on a piece of plywood with heels up/toes down and hit the back of the cuff with a heatgun (pretty uncomfortable for the customer).

[tgapp]

Built a tool for flaring the cuff / straightening out forward lean last week. Aimed mostly at the "Big Calf Ladies" but also others with very athletic lower appendages - we used to use a vise with come curved wood fittings to protect the cuff, or have them stand on a piece of plywood with heels up/toes down and hit the back of the cuff with a heatgun (pretty uncomfortable for the customer).

Whoa dude!! This is my wife's biggest limitation when fitting boots. Super awesome!

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk

[gregL]

Whoa dude!! This is my wife's biggest limitation when fitting boots. Super awesome!

Yeah, the winch has power to burn - ripped the toepiece out on the first trial run . . .

[mntlion]

what is the silver pipe that you are using?

[onenerdykid]

Built a tool for flaring the cuff / straightening out forward lean last week. Aimed mostly at the "Big Calf Ladies" but also others with very athletic lower appendages - we used to use a vise with come curved wood fittings to protect the cuff, or have them stand on a piece of plywood with heels up/toes down and hit the back of the cuff with a heatgun (pretty uncomfortable for the customer).

I've used various sized American footballs with great success. They flair the cuff out nicely, lots of tulip shaping, especially on the sides where many legs get pinched.

[gregL]

what is the silver pipe that you are using?

https://www.amazon.com/Galvanized-Fl...4380619&sr=8-6

[gregL]

I've used various sized American footballs with great success. They flair the cuff out nicely, lots of tulip shaping, especially on the sides where many legs get pinched.

Bet you're the only guy in Altenmarkt with a quiver of American footballs.

[onenerdykid]

Bet you're the only guy in Altenmarkt with a quiver of American footballs.

When your parent company owns Wilson Sports, it's surprisingly easy.

[gregL]

When your parent company owns Wilson Sports, it's surprisingly easy.

Not to mention baseball bats . . .

[mntlion]

I've used various sized American footballs with great success. They flair the cuff out nicely, lots of tulip shaping, especially on the sides where many legs get pinched.

Procedure?

unbuckle shell
heat upper
insert football
tighten down buckles?

[onenerdykid]

Procedure?

unbuckle shell
heat upper
insert football
tighten down buckles?

Basically yes, but remove the liner too and not so tight on the buckles. If you go too tight with the buckles you can elongate their mounting holes.

[mntlion]

Basically yes, but remove the liner too and not so tight on the buckles. If you go too tight with the buckles you can elongate their mounting holes.

yes, I was assuming that.

Nice podcast on blister too. thanks for the nerd talk . Was interesting

[GoldenBC]

What' your favourite width expansion tool?

I dislike using hydraulic expanders. I find the set up too slow, lining it up is too inconsistent, and you have the challenge of not collapsing instep height when expanding.

I prefer using a punch for most things. I use a big custom Soze Group style punch and a tecnica screw-action punch. Punches are fast and isolate forces. We do our bootfitting on the spot so speed is valuable.

But my problem is the punch bits are the wrong size. A small punch means you have to stack punches, which can be messy, or really diffficult depending on the plastic. Any oval punches I have found are too thin (for height of foot) and taper too much (depth and height). They look like <> if you will. I made a wooden bit last year that was 4" long and a more uniform shape. It broke and I might make one out of metal now. The goal being a classic width expansion in one punch.

Anyone have any ideas?

[gregL]

What' your favourite width expansion tool?

Mostly I use the old Blademaster heads with a Sidas Variable Arch tool on the top end, but you still have to move the punch around during cool down to get a smooth curve:

https://blademaster.com/web/en/boot-...1-be02108.html

I also have a Tecnica one from their heated lever press kit I use sometimes. I also built one with a larger radius curve out of wood, mine broke too.

[GoldenBC]

Mostly I use the old Blademaster heads with a Sidas Variable Arch tool on the top end, but you still have to move the punch around during cool down to get a smooth curve:

https://blademaster.com/web/en/boot-...1-be02108.html

I also have a Tecnica one from their heated lever press kit I use sometimes. I also built one with a larger radius curve out of wood, mine broke too.

You use the toe pieces on a punch? I never thought of that. Looks like a decent shape. I'll check that out today.

[Flexon Phil]

I just use the Calf Stretcher 2000, a 1.75L Scotch bottle. I have a lot of them around.

[robnow]

Mntlion, care to divulge if you've learned anything new from the Pulse world and if they actually do things differently?

[GoldenBC]

So I've got a Sidas Custom footbed question for those of you that make them.

When putting a foot into subtalar neurtal, you may often find the first metatarsal raises and needs to be supported. I will place a sticky high density foam piece under the 1st met and grind it to suit as I am grinding the heel stabilizer. However, I find this a less than ideal solution for speed, cleanliness, and longevity.

How do you deal with this? Or does everyone who uses this system avoid making corrective footbeds?

[mntlion]

Mntlion, care to divulge if you've learned anything new from the Pulse world and if they actually do things differently?

I'm off to ski, but will respond today:

overall its just boot fitting, but they have some fun new tools to help make it better, experienced staff, etc. Its nice that they have stock and tools to help make it right. Seems to take some of the voodoo out of the experiance

[gregL]

So I've got a Sidas Custom footbed question for those of you that make them.

When putting a foot into subtalar neurtal, you may often find the first metatarsal raises and needs to be supported. I will place a sticky high density foam piece under the 1st met and grind it to suit as I am grinding the heel stabilizer. However, I find this a less than ideal solution for speed, cleanliness, and longevity.

How do you deal with this? Or does everyone who uses this system avoid making corrective footbeds?

If I have to do a first ray post, I usually use 3/4" strips of cork contact-cemented on, but generally I try to get the forefoot as flat as possible when doing the casting.

[GoldenBC]

If I have to do a first ray post, I usually use 3/4" strips of cork contact-cemented on, but generally I try to get the forefoot as flat as possible when doing the casting.

So same idea essentially but probably more durable.

I’m not sure what you mean about trying to get the forefoot flat. Take my foot for example, and this is quite common: When my foot is flat (heel, 1st met and 5 met all touching) I am heavily pronated, there is no other way around this. If I stand in subtalar neutral my first met lifts and unweights. I can contract my muscles and pull it back down while remaining in subtalar neutral, but I can’t ski flexed all the time. Heel posting won’t stop this.

Are you correcting stances or just making the footbeds as people naturally stand?

[gregL]

So same idea essentially but probably more durable.

I’m not sure what you mean about trying to get the forefoot flat. Take my foot for example, and this is quite common: When my foot is flat (heel, 1st met and 5 met all touching) I am heavily pronated, there is no other way around this. If I stand in subtalar neutral my first met lifts and unweights. I can contract my muscles and pull it back down while remaining in subtalar neutral, but I can’t ski flexed all the time. Heel posting won’t stop this.

Are you correcting stances or just making the footbeds as people naturally stand?

I used to be super anal about maintaining alignment all the way through the talus, to the point of taping people's ankles with athletic tape to hold them in place. Over the years I've changed my philosophy and let most people just stand as they normally do, pronation or no. It's not as if the sole of the boot flops around; it's held stationary by the rigid plastic cast above it. If people are comfortable doing every other weight-bearing activity without correction, I think they should be able to ski that way as well - if they need the medial midfoot/navicular blown out, I do it. If people use heavy correction in their everyday footwear, I'll try to match that in the ski footbeds, usually casting them unweighted and/or using the tape method, but that's rare.

FWIW, I've heard several anecdotal accounts of World Cup fitters just letting the athletes stand as they normally would as well . . .

[One (+) Sentence]

I used to be super anal about maintaining alignment all the way through the talus, to the point of taping people's ankles with athletic tape to hold them in place. Over the years I've changed my philosophy and let most people just stand as they normally do, pronation or no. It's not as if the sole of the boot flops around; it's held stationary by the rigid plastic cast above it. If people are comfortable doing every other weight-bearing activity without correction, I think they should be able to ski that way as well - if they need the medial midfoot/navicular blown out, I do it. If people use heavy correction in their everyday footwear, I'll try to match that in the ski footbeds, usually casting them unweighted and/or using the tape method, but that's rare.

FWIW, I've heard several anecdotal accounts of World Cup fitters just letting the athletes stand as they normally would as well . . .

X2. This is inline with the most current ski boot fitting philosophies.

Accommodate, not correct.

Often creating space in the medial side of the shell.