help recommend me an inbounds jong ski

[old goat]

yeahhhhh the reason i put the backland on the list is because my comfort zone is lighter/softer skis. again, i'm a light dude, and i'm not a "turn it up to 11" skier anyway. i'm just afraid that with a name like The Enforcer, it would kick my ass.

and i'm tempted by those Woodsmens, I just don't know if they'll be 2 much 5 me

I'm not light--180 (should be 170)--but I'm old and slow. I'm sking Enforcer 93's which per Blister are stiffer than the 100's, and I'm not having any trouble with them. I haven't skied them in powder but in shallow wind affected, crud, bumps, groomed.

[skuff]

Praxis MVP

[snowaddict91]

Pivots and be done with it.

This, unless you want to use boots with a rockered sole.

[The Suit]

and i'm tempted by those Woodsmens, I just don't know if they'll be 2 much 5 me

I got a pair of Woodsman 108s last year, 187cm. Mounted with Pivot 14s. I have maybe 15 days on them. I'm similar size to you and I'm guessing a few years older (58). Definitely not a badass.

I had to detune the tips as they were initially hooky on hardpack. From reading the ON3P thread it's clear others had the same issue. The mount point is more forward than I'm used to and it took me a few days to get used to the feeling of extra tail (heh, heh). Now that I'm used to it I like the extra tail.

Overall, I'm super-happy with the Woodsmangs. They're very damp and stable. I'm more comfortable at speed on them than with any other ski I've owned. I haven't skied them on a true powder day, but they're rock solid arcing a turn on anything from chopped up mank to moderately firm groomed. They're not super-turny, at least not for me, and they're not at their best sliding around on groomers. They do fine in soft bumps as well as hard bumps with a few inches of fresh on top.

I have other skis for hardpack and powder days, but if I had to stick with just one pair of skis I'd be happy skiing the Woodsmanses every day.

[galibier_numero_un]

Hey @tgapp,

Meh on Pivots - especially if you want to press touring boots into service. Also, the Pivots are a pain to get into in powder.

Hey! I had a Look Dildo fetish dating back to the Look Nevada N89 heel (ca. 1970), and I gave in to it again about three years ago. If I owned alpine or Gripwalk boots, I confess that I'd likely succumb to the lure of the dildo again ... but not for any rational reason

Get a Warden MNC or Aaatack AT.

People will tell you that you get much better control with Pivots, and that hasn't been my experience, but you know me ... more than 5 feet of air happens only rarely (and accidentally) ;-) I don't notice this stuff, and I doubt you'd notice any theoretical superiority of Pivots either.

The Tyrolias have a slight bit less step-in resistance (powder entry) than the Wardens do, and they both ski about the same to me. I like the forward tension adjustment on the Wardens over the tab setting on the Tyrolia, but if you're not adjusting frequently, this is a non-issue.

Your observations about tail release on the CD104Ls is interesting. I didn't find this with the 104s that are now in @mall walker's possession. I did find a slightly squirrely tip in harder snow, but it was a good trade-off for predictability in manky snow.

I haven't gotten out on my post-COVID acquired 104Ls, and this year is looking like a continuation of last Spring (as in deferred skiing). I'm really excited about these skis, and in carpet testing, I was surprised at how damp they felt - surprisingly so for a light, carbon ski. My "scientific" test was to rest the tail on the floor, hold the ski somewhere above its midpoint, pull back on the tip and let go ... feeling how long the boinnnnng took to die out ... much damper than my 2014 Billy Goat Tours, and a bit damper than my GPOs.

...I have other skis for hardpack and powder days, but if I had to stick with just one pair of skis I'd be happy skiing the Woodsmanses every day.

This is my sense as well. I don't know this category of daily driver inbounds skis, 'coz i run CD114s and GPOs (narrow enough, 'coz I rarely ride lifts when the snow is hard). When I last demoed ON3Ps, I was torn between the Wren & Kartel, and if I were to guess, the answer (for me) lies in the Woodsman, but this is just extrapolation on my part.

... Thom

[tgapp]

The Tyrolias have a slight bit less step-in resistance (powder entry) than the Wardens do, and they both ski about the same to me. I like the forward tension adjustment on the Wardens over the tab setting on the Tyrolia, but if you're not adjusting frequently, this is a non-issue.

Your observations about tail release on the CD104Ls is interesting. I didn't find this with the 104s that are now in @Boissal's possession. I did find a slightly squirrely tip in harder snow, but it was a good trade-off for predictability in manky snow.

I haven't gotten out on my post-COVID acquired 104Ls, and this year is looking like a continuation of last Spring (as in deferred skiing). I'm really excited about these skis, and in carpet testing, I was surprised at how damp they felt - surprisingly so for a light, carbon ski. My "scientific" test was to rest the tail on the floor, hold the ski somewhere above its midpoint, pull back on the tip and let go ... feeling how long the boinnnnng took to die out ... much damper than my 2014 Billy Goat Tours, and a bit damper than my GPOs.

... Thom

Thanks for the excellent advice re: bindings. That's exactly what I need.

Re: CD104L's, I think my expectation going into them was that they would be like a fatter LD90, and that is just not the case at all. They're damper, require a little bit more energy to drive, and the tails don't break out as quickly as the LD90's, and the mount point (IIRC) is a little bit forward from the LD90. They're overall a fair bit stiffer (especially midsole back). I like them; I think it's more a question of learning curve. I've got ~8 days or so on 'em, and the more I ski them, the more I enjoy them. And yeah - in a word, those skis are DAMP.

[altacoup]

I’m preferential to pivots. But the tyrolia is way better than the warden. The new salomon heel piece used on the warden and sth2 is garbage. I have to run my sth2 +2 my normal din to not experience heel pre release. If your really going to get a purely inbounds set up I also highly recommend getting alpine boots. Even the most aggressive touring boot simply doesn’t have the flex, suspension and control of an alpine boot. Race boots can be found fairly cheap


Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

[galibier_numero_un]

I get that it makes sense to not ski pin binders inbounds. I fail however, to see enough of a difference between alpine binders to develop brand loyalty (well .. .maybe disloyalty to Marker). I've never had elasticity problems (pre-release) with Aaatacks, Wardens, or Pivot 14s.

I get that this is TGR ...

Me ... I'm 165# and I know athletic "advanced" skiers who ski as fast as I do (i.e. 40-45mph on a groomer is plenty fast for me). As @iggy says ... groomers are just a means to get to non-groomers. So, if you drink too much beer, eat too much pizza, and like to rail GS turns on pancake flat snow, then my comments don't apply.

I could easily ski my Z-G Tour Pros happily ever after inbounds, and the main reason I don't do so are because (1) I had previously purchased some XT Freetour 130s (1st year they were out), and (2) 'coz touring boots aren't built for as much wear and tear, so why beat them up unnecessarily.

Now, if yer gonna get a second boot for inbounds anyhow, then finding a deal on a dedicated alpine boot makes a lot of sense, but I'd still opt for a Warden/Aaatack so I have the option of pressing my touring boots into service for road trips (maybe not an F1, but certainly a Hawx/Z-G type boot).

I definitely notice the difference between the Freetours and the ZGs in situations where I hit a compression. The ZGs bottom out more easily. So, I most definitely prefer the Freetours, but I'd quickly adjust if pressed to use only my Z-Gs.

Oh yeah ... I meant the CD104Ls went to @mall walker (not @Boissal), but you knew that.

... Thom

[fleaches]

I’m preferential to pivots. But the tyrolia is way better than the warden. The new salomon heel piece used on the warden and sth2 is garbage. I have to run my sth2 +2 my normal din to not experience heel pre release. If your really going to get a purely inbounds set up I also highly recommend getting alpine boots. Even the most aggressive touring boot simply doesn’t have the flex, suspension and control of an alpine boot. Race boots can be found fairly cheap


Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

I would second the warden heels being a little finicky. Everyone here hates makers but I have had 0 pre releases on griffons. I had to turn up the heel on my wardens a couple of notches to keep from walking out of them when landing 6" micro jumps. After doing that I like them fine.


Sent from my Pixel XL using TGR Forums mobile app

[jmills]

I didn't find qsts difficult to release at all, just kinda dead and not lively. Damp for days (great at chunder for their weight) and fun in deep snow but that's it really.

I have the 18’ QST106 in 181 and 20’ QST106 in 188. Mounted for a 309 BSL and in SLC if you are close to that and want to compare them.
I like the 20’ much more than the 18’

[Bandit Man]

Get an Enforcer 100 or 104...seriously cover 80-90% of most skiers’ needs. Not full on chargers but dang good skis. Amazingly versatile, especially for your size and weight.

[stuntmanbo]

If you can find one, in the same class as the Enforcer 104, there is the Kastle BMX 105 (non HP). I’m approx the same size as you and really like them. Good carving capacity for their width, really great float for their width, and damp even if no metal.
Regarding bindings, I’ve tried them all (griffon/attack2/sth2/pivot12), griffons are hard to get into, pivots are IMO not practical due to the rotating heel.
Attacks2 vs STH2, skiability is a bit the same but the sth has more adjustability options and is easier to adjust.
I have some green attack2 on my bmx105 but if I had to do it again I’ll take sth2 even if it’s less pretty on that ski.

But you can’t go wrong with the enforcer, I demoed the 100 and liked it too, great ski.

[MakersTeleMark]

If I had the money, I would get the Line Blade and call it my everyday resort ski for sure.

[mattig]

I would second the warden heels being a little finicky. Everyone here hates makers but I have had 0 pre releases on griffons. I had to turn up the heel on my wardens a couple of notches to keep from walking out of them when landing 6" micro jumps. After doing that I like them fine.


Sent from my Pixel XL using TGR Forums mobile app

Exact opposite experience. I've had several bullshit pre releases on dildo heels (had to run one at 12 and the other at 10) and nothing but consistency from warden/sth heels.

Warden is an amazing Jack of all trades binding unless you are hucking big meat (then pivot by all means or sth2 16). Wish I'd bought 5 more pairs when they were on sale for 129 a few years back. Easy to adjust. 24mm of adjustment range. Nicer damping vs pivots (at the expense of stack height). Easier pow day step in. Prefer that style of AFD as well. Better brake design IMO.

Anyway, on the skis, dynastar aficionados could refine this suggestion with some new ski that I don't know about, but I would add legend 106 (or whatever the better/newer equivalent may be) to your list of 100-110's.

[2FUNKY]

182 Dynastar MFree108 and put whatever binder on it that fancies your heart. I own the 192 and have been really impressed by this ski. I would label it a playful charger if I had to. Lays trenches in firm snow, pivots through tight spaces with zero effort and mobs chop easily. Surfy in pow as well. Had mine in 12”+ of untracked and they came right up and surfed nicely. They will be on my feet again tomorrow.

[Bandit Man]

Exact opposite experience. I've had several bullshit pre releases on dildo heels (had to run one at 12 and the other at 10) and nothing but consistency from warden/sth heels.

Totally agree. My STH2/Warden/Guardian heels have all been great. Then again, I don’t ski them on shop recommended release values. I can practically walk out of any heel at those settings.

When I used to drop big stuff, I’d be 4+ from the recommended settings. Then again, maybe that was to compensate for my backseat charlie/backslap landing style. [emoji6]

[mattig]

182 Dynastar MFree108 and put whatever binder on it that fancies your heart. I own the 192 and have been really impressed by this ski. I would label it a playful charger if I had to. Lays trenches in firm snow, pivots through tight spaces with zero effort and mobs chop easily. Surfy in pow as well. Had mine in 12”+ of untracked and they came right up and surfed nicely. They will be on my feet again tomorrow.

Thanks 2F. I think that's the legend 106 upgrade that I sorta remembered reading something about. Maybe it was LVS who said it was the ski he wished the 106 had been?

[chaka]

check out the 4FRNT MSP. I have a couple days on my new 99's, I really really like them as a do it all lowish tide here in PNW (heavy snow).

[TurxSki]

I guess I'm missing something? Why not demo various skis at resort to help you in your quest?
Sure, you might not find every brand, but come on mang, you are right there, as far as how it feels on groomers/hard pack.
Why make it such a conundrum?
Or do you only want to "talk about" skiing?

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using TGR Forums mobile app

[tgapp]

I guess I'm missing something? Why not demo various skis at resort to help you in your quest?
Sure, you might not find every brand, but come on mang, you are right there, as far as how it feels on groomers/hard pack.
Why make it such a conundrum?
Or do you only want to "talk about" skiing?

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using TGR Forums mobile app

Sorry man, I just don't have the luxury of planning ski days around demo days, nor do I have the interest in dropping $120 on a lift ticket just to fuck around with a bunch of skis on groomers. It's not my bag. Maybe if I had a pass (and a bunch of spare time where I'd rather be on piste then in the backcountry) I'd go that route, but it's much easier for me to get some recommendations, do some research, and then opportunistically pull the trigger on a good deal within my narrow search criteria.

I've had really good luck with the buy cheap/sell cheap strategy for trying new gear; maybe if I was going to go all in on something I wanted with no compromises I would walk into a ski shop and walk out with a brand new set of sticks still in plastic, but both my financial (and time!) priorities substantially favor touring.

Worst case scenario, I buy something for cheap (likely Enforcer 104s), try them out, and if I don't like em, I sell them and move on.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

[tgapp]

Oh and to all the mags who have actually taken the time to give me thoughtful advice and recommendations, thank you. It's super helpful and means a lot. There are few communities on the internet that are able to provide such good, detailed, and helpful advice the same way that TGR does.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

[skifishbum]

id just ski my skis with tech binders on em every day some days in some days out o bounds sum both
theres somethin to say bout the kiss system and the ability to leave an open gate at any moment
not to mention the gear fomo it doesnt create
i got passes with yur name om em
decent demos nsm
fuck dildos
lemme know ill score ya tyro at or wardens at my cost
im more of a tryo fan

[tgapp]

just an update to this thread

i picked up a pair of cham 107 2.0's here from WSTDeep - they're the right dimensions for me, and the right length too, and the price was very right

i also picked up a pair of shift10's from BeHuWe for dirt cheap too, stoked on that deal

might not be the end all front side set up, but for less than $400, new, and the fact that i can tour sidecountry with it...i'm pretty stoked

thanks all