To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[EWG]

Don't think, when you think you weaken the team.

Fair point, Crash.

[wooley12]

Saw that movie and missed that line. Funny, In '64 my JV FB coach said it to me as I came off after the interception. I went sand lot and ran a pass route that "I thought" was better.

[jono]

my understanding is that the source of the variants are thought to be people that are suffering with severe symptoms for extended periods of time and they somehow infect others.

I've seen that noted but I wonder about the proportionality of it. I mean, it seems logical that those would be people who make more virus and making more virus gives more chances for mutation. But do they wind up with a disproportionate number? What is the mechanism for that? If that host has a weaker than average immune system it would seem that their body would not necessarily favor the same mutations that would be more infectious to others--but might create more chances.

On the other hand, patient zero for a new mutation seems like a logical candidate for a longer infection, but the cause and effect is reversed that way.

Just some musing here. If there's more known on proportionality of mutations that'd be super interesting, though.

[bodywhomper]

Yes. It’ll be interesting!

The March for Science FB page is hosting a conversation about what can safely be done once vaxed on Thursday, 6pm eastern time. Their guest is the Katelyn Jetelina from the social media handle, “your local epidemiologist.” Jetelina recently tried to make an infographic to explain this stuff, which seemed to be a failure in simplification. It’ll be interesting in how she evaluated and explains the evaluation of risk.

[ötzi]

welp, we played a little hunch and cruised by the mass vax site here at the end of their day hoping they had extras and it worked out, I just got back from being stuck with J&J and I am fucking stoked.

[Hopeless Sinner]

welp, we played a little hunch and cruised by the mass vax site here at the end of their day hoping they had extras and it worked out, I just got back from being stuck with J&J and I am fucking stoked.

Congrats!

[ötzi]

thanks mang. I have some other not-so-great medical shit going on right now so this is a major relief. Did not need the damn covid on top of my other shit, that's for sure.

[seano732]

thanks mang. I have some other not-so-great medical shit going on right now so this is a major relief. Did not need the damn covid on top of my other shit, that's for sure.

Good for you man! How's the 5G reception though????

[ötzi]

Still working on getting it dialed in. But I never heard colors or saw music before, so it's kinda cool.

[glademaster]

welp, we played a little hunch and cruised by the mass vax site here at the end of their day hoping they had extras and it worked out, I just got back from being stuck with J&J and I am fucking stoked.

Congrats! I was on cloud nine after I got my first shot too.

[chaka]

welp, we played a little hunch and cruised by the mass vax site here at the end of their day hoping they had extras and it worked out, I just got back from being stuck with J&J and I am fucking stoked.

congrats! I've been thinking about doing that... but also don't want to get in front of anyone needing it more than me. I'm likely in one of the last tiers. If you don't mind sharing, was it your tier to go and you were just trying to get it without appointment or were they just done with who had lined up and said sure to whoever showed up? Not trying to harangue you in either case, just trying to understand the situation better (which I'm sure varies place to place as well). thanks.

[ötzi]

Yeah I qualified because of the other medical shit so I was fully legit getting stuck but there weren't any appointments available that I could find despite trying hard so this really worked out in my case.

it seemed like they were gonna turn me away until I said what was up and then they said right this way sir.

[John_B]

I can't speak for Otzi's situation but in WA the vaccination events that I've volunteered at the standards become pretty lax if a lot of doses remain. I'm 32 and got vaccinated at one of the events I volunteered at due to the short notice of the event and inability to book all appointments.

When I got vaccinated they were using the Pfizer so were also unsure of how many shots they were going to get out of each vial too.

[ötzi]

I think with the J&J they coulda just saved the shot for tomorrow (not sure about that) but since I was legit they just put me in the line.

[old goat]

Rev,

The more nuanced answer is that yes, there is actually a news report of a bleeding issue that potentially can be temporally related to SARS CoV2 vaccine administration (it happened to a physician, and the subsequent event of a brain hemorrhage killed him). This is being investigated, and the detailed clinical case report will hopefully eventually come out.

But the association between the SARS CoV2 vaccine and acute ITP described in the article is not yet established and may be either be unrelated or perhaps an extremely rare side effect that the medical establishment needs to be aware of.

In fact, ITP has been associated with a wide variety of medications, including prior vaccines for other diseases. It is definitely a topic of investigation, and at this point a rare enough occurrence that it should not keep one from getting vaccinated.

I wasn't aware of that case. To put it in perspective--the incidence of ITP is 3/100,000 per year. If only 1 of the 60,000,000 who have been vaccinated in the US developed ITP (unlkely) one could say the vaccine protects against ITP (but I wouldn't). That's an unusually severe case though--my recollection is that ITP is usually pretty treatable, no?

This is the kind of thing I hate to see in the press "Dr. Jerry L. Spivak, an expert on blood disorders at Johns Hopkins University, who was not involved in Dr. Michael’s care, said that based on Ms. Neckelmann’s description, “I think it is a medical certainty that the vaccine was related.” Even if it's true. In any case, a rare case of ITP due to vaccination would not be a reason for people with natural or medical coagulopathy to forego vaccination.

[Hopeless Sinner]

congrats! I've been thinking about doing that... but also don't want to get in front of anyone needing it more than me. I'm likely in one of the last tiers. If you don't mind sharing, was it your tier to go and you were just trying to get it without appointment or were they just done with who had lined up and said sure to whoever showed up? Not trying to harangue you in either case, just trying to understand the situation better (which I'm sure varies place to place as well). thanks.

There are local,state and federal wait lists being established.


https://hidrb.com/


https://covidvaccine.idaho.gov/


https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1F...P5V_g/viewform

[ötzi]

^^ just forwarded the first one to my kids, thanks.

[Shredhead]

My wife and I got the J&J yesterday.

Today I got an email that Valley View in Glenwood had extra, so now my 27 year old son is scheduled!

[rideit]

[jono]

I wasn't aware of that case. To put it in perspective--the incidence of ITP is 3/100,000 per year. If only 1 of the 60,000,000 who have been vaccinated in the US developed ITP (unlkely) one could say the vaccine protects against ITP (but I wouldn't). That's an unusually severe case though--my recollection is that ITP is usually pretty treatable, no?

This is the kind of thing I hate to see in the press "Dr. Jerry L. Spivak, an expert on blood disorders at Johns Hopkins University, who was not involved in Dr. Michael’s care, said that based on Ms. Neckelmann’s description, “I think it is a medical certainty that the vaccine was related.” Even if it's true. In any case, a rare case of ITP due to vaccination would not be a reason for people with natural or medical coagulopathy to forego vaccination.

Dr. Spivak feeding RFK Jr. does seem like a poor career move.

At those rates and taking a wild ass guess to the vax weighting by time, it seems like you'd expect like 200 cases of ITP in the vaccinated population by now. 0.5% seems to line up pretty well with "unusual," right?

[Hopeless Sinner]

^^ just forwarded the first one to my kids, thanks.

You're welcome. My 22 yo got the J&J Saturday out of Uncle Joe's stash for teachers. She's been on cloud 9 ever since and is some payback for the effort she's made this school year.

[Tri-Ungulate]

Dr. Spivak feeding RFK Jr. does seem like a poor career move.

At those rates and taking a wild ass guess to the vax weighting by time, it seems like you'd expect like 200 cases of ITP in the vaccinated population by now. 0.5% seems to line up pretty well with "unusual," right?

Yeah, it could be related, certainly the temporal association fits, and as I posted above, ITP is often associated with other vaccinations (as an extremely rare side effect) because ITP (by definition) is an immune-mediated condition and vaccines are designed to rev up the immune system. ITP is also associated with different medications, dietary supplements and even certain foods, as well as infections themselves.

But often as not, we don't ever recognize the underlying trigger for ITP - my mom actually experienced it many years ago, and it was completely idiopathic (no known cause), as are a large portion of ITP cases. I see ITP a lot in my line of work, and often it's relatively asymptomatic or only mildly symptomatic, and yes, usually treated promptly by steroids and/or immunoglobulin transfusion. The brain bleed suffered by the unfortunate Dr. Michael was probably just extreme bad luck piled on bad luck, as only a miniscule portion of ITP patients experience that serious event.

Like og sez, if the rate of ITP in the SARS CoV2 vaccinated population is lower than the "natural" incidence, you could spuriously argue that it had a protective effect.

In any case, regardless of what Spivak says, SARS CoV2 vaccine-associated ITP currently appears to be such a vanishingly rare occurrence that it should not be a reason for anyone to fear getting the vaccine. And as I mentioned earlier, actually getting COVID19 increases one's risk for getting a clotting or bleeding problem by a significantly larger margin, probably by orders of magnitude.

[chaka]

Yeah I qualified because of the other medical shit so I was fully legit getting stuck but there weren't any appointments available that I could find despite trying hard so this really worked out in my case.

it seemed like they were gonna turn me away until I said what was up and then they said right this way sir.

I can't speak for Otzi's situation but in WA the vaccination events that I've volunteered at the standards become pretty lax if a lot of doses remain. I'm 32 and got vaccinated at one of the events I volunteered at due to the short notice of the event and inability to book all appointments.

When I got vaccinated they were using the Pfizer so were also unsure of how many shots they were going to get out of each vial too.

There are local,state and federal wait lists being established.


https://hidrb.com/


https://covidvaccine.idaho.gov/


https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1F...P5V_g/viewform

thank you all for sharing

[The Reverend Floater]

I think with the J&J they coulda just saved the shot for tomorrow (not sure about that) but since I was legit they just put me in the line.

Weird. I always pictured you as a 25 year old Swedish woman.

[The Reverend Floater]

Rev,

The more nuanced answer is that yes, there is actually a news report of a bleeding issue that potentially can be temporally related to SARS CoV2 vaccine administration (it happened to a physician, and the subsequent event of a brain hemorrhage killed him). This is being investigated, and the detailed clinical case report will hopefully eventually come out.

But the association between the SARS CoV2 vaccine and acute ITP described in the article is not yet established and may be either be unrelated or perhaps an extremely rare side effect that the medical establishment needs to be aware of.

In fact, ITP has been associated with a wide variety of medications, including prior vaccines for other diseases. It is definitely a topic of investigation, and at this point a rare enough occurrence that it should not keep one from getting vaccinated.

Thanks, TU. My blood has the opposite effect so I'm guessing bleeding out won't be an issue for me.