First to Close???

[muted]

When ski areas in Utah all closed in late Mach there were about 50 Covid cases a day in the State. Yesterday there were over 5,000 new cases in Utah and all the ski areas are getting ready to open in the next few weeks. How does that work?

Back then no one knew much about how COVID and how to treat it and they didn't want tourists coming in until they figured things out, got PPE for workers, etc. So things got shut down. Businesses closed and many workers become WFH. Utahs goal was to get under 500 cases a day, and that happened for a short while.


What happens now? I dunno. Governor mandated no inter-family get togethers after the election and we are waiting two weeks to see if that dropped the cases significantly, as hospitals are full now. Check back after T-Day for the next plan for UT.

[Smoova]

I think that's stupid, not only as a punitive view on a fellow human, but vaccines are most effective if the population as a whole takes them, preventing the disease from festering.

At some point, we've got to get off the political based divisiveness, especially against the people that have been tricked.

Willful ignorance has natural consequences.

[PB]

I think that's stupid, not only as a punitive view on a fellow human, but vaccines are most effective if the population as a whole takes them, preventing the disease from festering.

At some point, we've got to get off the political based divisiveness, especially against the people that have been tricked.

All true, but can we just vaccine-dart the trump base-heads from a safe distance?

[~mikey b]

https://www.saminfo.com/headline-new...BUL3Jkz-DPmi94


NM closing ski areas for now and OR keeping them open

[summit]

I still don't buy the argument that COVID restrictions are causing permanent damage to the Constitution.

First, you gotta understand that people don't like rules, especially American individualists. People really don't like inconvenient rules. People absolutely detest inconvenient rules when they don't understand the rationale... and rarely have motivation to gain that understanding. The cognitive bias is towards dismissing the validity of such rules in order to justify the natural desire for noncompliance.

The twisted mindset of "constitutional violation" requires the following logic:

1. Public health orders, which are county and state level legal actions, abridge some freedoms. People naturally don't like this, but one has to imagine that:
a. These are constitutional protected freedoms that cannot be abridged and
b. One must ignore the 10th Amendment that those unenumerated rights "are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

2. Believing that public health orders violate rights protected by the US Constitution is not enough. Even in cases where it is conditionally so, SCOTUS clearly allows for draconian health actions that otherwise abridge freedoms, such as quarantine, in the name of serious threats to public health. So now it is necessary to argue that the abridgement of rights is not justified. The easiest rationale to seek is that measures being ordered are useless, or unneeded, and thus not justified which would make them an abuse of power and violation of the Constitution.

That is how folks get from natural dislike of being told what to do down the torturous illogical tunnel justifying noncompliance by misunderstanding the constitution to dismissing the seriousness of the situation, denying that masks work, and doubting any bit of science which supports such interventions... all in order to confirm their natural bias against the measures needed to control the situation. Now tropes like "it's just the flu" or "it only kills diabetic geezers" or "masks don't work" provide the needed confirmatory rationale. The bias is glaring.

Unfortunately, it naturally follows from the above that there must be nefarious motives behind everything. Why else would authorities push rules that are both unjust and unjustified? This logic trap is self-reinforcing and promotes conspiratorial thinking, dismissing further evidence, and outright buy-in to "it's a hoax" and "they are trying to control us" tropes right on into the "they are intentionally lying and destroying our lives to achieve evil agenda X, Y or Z."

[Buster Highmen]

Willful ignorance has natural consequences.

Maybe, but that doesn't mean others should be so gleeful about it.
That's bullshit, it's time to treating one another like countrymen.

[Buster Highmen]

All true, but can we just vaccine-dart the trump base-heads from a safe distance?

No we have to treat them with some respect and convince them instead of being snotty. Trust won't be reestablished unless it's done at the personal level.

Man it up.

[Smoova]

Maybe, but that doesn't mean others should be so gleeful about it.
That's bullshit, it's time to treating one another like countrymen.

You are mistaking resignation for glee.

[Buster Highmen]

You are mistaking resignation for glee.

You're doing a bad job of making the distinction at the outset.

"fuckin awesome' really doesn't convey resignation.

Lots of decent people are being duped by authority figures. Treating them like shit is how this got going in the first place.

[Smoova]

You're doing a bad job of making the distinction at the outset.

"fuckin awesome' really doesn't convey resignation.

Lots of decent people are being duped by authority figures. Treating them like shit is how this got going in the first place.

That's fair: I'd prefer "fine" to "fuckin awesome." That said, giving folks the choice of what to inject into their bodies doesn't seem to be "treating them like shit." I also don't believe that many (any?) Trump supporters have been unwillingly fooled and I've got hordes of them on both sides of my family and all over my workplace and neighborhood. If you do, then I'll agree to disagree.

[Buster Highmen]

That's fair: I'd prefer "fine" to "fuckin awesome." That said, giving folks the choice of what to inject into their bodies doesn't seem to be "treating them like shit." I also don't believe that many (any?) Trump supporters have been unwillingly fooled and I've got hordes of them on both sides of my family and all over my workplace and neighborhood. If you do, then I'll agree to disagree.

So you're fine with wishing a long and twisted death not only on ignorant fellow humans or countrymen, but your relations as well?

[SKIP IN7RO]

I have a few aunts and uncles, and my cousins will be getting a "thoughts and prayers" card when their parents die.

[Smoova]

So you're fine with wishing a long and twisted death not only on ignorant fellow humans or countrymen, but your relations as well?

I understand that freedom often has messy consequences. I also understand that one group of folks acting like they are more enlightened or better equipped to make decisions for "ignorant fellow humans" is exactly what allowed Trump to rise to the presidency in the first place.

[Buster Highmen]

I understand that freedom often has messy consequences. I also understand that one group of folks acting like they are more enlightened or better equipped to make decisions for "ignorant fellow humans" is exactly what allowed Trump to rise to the presidency in the first place.

Don't misconstrue what I'm getting at; I said nothing about making decisions for others. Nice try, though.

At least you own not giving a shit about other citizens and family.

The country is fractured and that sort of divisiveness that's keeping it that way.

If you want to try to do something about it, you could. If you don't, at least you own it.

[Smoova]

Don't misconstrue what I'm getting at; I said nothing about making decisions for others. Nice try, though.

At least you own not giving a shit about other citizens and family.

The country is fractured and that sort of divisiveness that's keeping it that way.

If you want to try to do something about it, you could. If you don't, at least you own it.

I care enough about "other citizens and family" to allow them their own values and decisions. That's why I spent a couple tours in the sand box soaking up lead. I own all of it.

[powdork]

Maybe, but that doesn't mean others should be so gleeful about it.
That's bullshit, it's time to treating one another like countrymen.

They seem perfectly gleeful to convince anyone they can not to wear a mask.

[Buster Highmen]

They seem perfectly gleeful to convince anyone they can not to wear a mask.

That doesn't seem like a good reason.

[Buster Highmen]

I care enough about "other citizens and family" to allow them their own values and decisions. That's why I spent a couple tours in the sand box soaking up lead. I own all of it.

Again, that's a lot different than 'fuckin awesome'.
If someone makes a bad decision based on bad information, it's fucking tiring as hell to try to convince them otherwise. Giving up on that is one thing, but mocking their pending misery is another, that's all.

[powdork]

That doesn't seem like a good reason.

it's largely why we are where we are. how many more have to die like this.

wedding reception for 55 people (over Maine's limit) and guests refuse to wear masks leads to 7 deaths none of whom attended party
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6945a5.htm

and don't get on smoova for the fuckin awesome thing, that was me.

[Buster Highmen]

it's why we are where we are.

I'll give you that; bad reasons justify a lot of st00pidity.

[summit]

The right to peaceably assemble is unequivocally protected by the first amendment. The 10th doesn’t apply, unless 4th amendment restrictions suddenly only apply to federal police.

Yep, so 1A abridgement in public health orders under Gibbons v. Ogden and Compagnie Francaise de Navigation a Vapeur v. Louisiana State Board of Health. Even vaccines can be mandates as per Jacobson v. Massachusetts.

[summit]

No one ever said the courts get it right all the time.

So what are you saying you believe? I don't want to assume or put words in your mouth.

[~mikey b]

it's largely why we are where we are. how many more have to die like this.

wedding reception for 55 people (over Maine's limit) and guests refuse to wear masks leads to 7 deaths none of whom attended party
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6945a5.htm

and don't get on smoova for the fuckin awesome thing, that was me.

funny

there’s a wedding party in town this weekend - booked the entire lodge

[Buster Highmen]

it's largely why we are where we are. how many more have to die like this.

So perpetuating it is a good idea?

wedding reception for 55 people (over Maine's limit) and guests refuse to wear masks leads to 7 deaths none of whom attended party
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6945a5.htm

and don't get on smoova for the fuckin awesome thing, that was me.

Hey, well, he chimed in.

C'mon, it's not fuckin awesome.

Skiing and sex are fucking awesome.

Seeing your fellow citizens being duped into making bad decisions is not fucking awesome.

Lots of us disagree about the right wings response to COVID as well as the election. If people want to stoke those divisions, I think that's weak.

I get it about being tired of the different views on this stuff, views that are promoted by the lies of leaders, of people supposedly in trust.

But that kind of reveling in the opponents pending misery on social media is just as much of cause for the failure of democracy as the authoritarian manipulation that creates the divisions.

[skifishbum]

I care enough about "other citizens and family" to allow them their own values and decisions. That's why I spent a couple tours in the sand box soaking up lead. I own all of it.

people who aint taken it
dont seem to realize the oaths an oath you dont git to defend and insure freedom for a select few you agree with
its all or dont take the oath and serve
drive on with wood and happy belated veterns day and thanks
and vibes for your loss fdfm