Switching between boots w/ shift binding

[eSock]

I put shifts on some Billy Goats for my powder ski inbounds/bc and I've got atomic hawx 130 at 324mm and lange rx 120 at 328mm.

I'll just need to adjust the forward pressure/afd when I switch boots, right? Any other considerations? Is this a fools errand and I should just stick w/ the hawx anytime I'm planning to take the BGs out?

Seemed like a good idea end of season but now I'm second guessing it as actual logistics are being planned for.

[HukuTa_KydecHuk]

You also need to adjust the AFD plate according to boot sole, cause it differs from one brand to another. If I recall correctly, improper setup of AFD with Shift binding was the main reason for unwanted pre-releases according to the reviews here in the shift thread.

[sidewaysbeater]

Interested to hear what others say too. I just picked up a 21 pair of hawx ultra 130 xtds and am interested in being able to swap between my regular alpine boots (1mm BSL difference) with shifts (and possibly p18s/sth2s). I'm half hoping that the new liner just makes me want to ski the hawx all the time and I don't even want to do this...

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

My opinion after a few seasons of skiing the switch very hard is that I think a lot of the pre-release issues are related to improperly set AFD and forward pressure. So if you really know what you're doing setting those things then you're fine to switch boots. If you don't, I wouldn't.

I personally thought I would swap boots, but now I don't bother and instead just swap liners (powerwrap for inbounds, tour wrap for uphill). But my local hill requires a lot of walking uphill even on inbounds days. So YMMV.

[eSock]

The difference in weight between boots and BGs makes me question if I'm gonna enjoy a full day of trying to drive such a hefty ski with such a light boot, so that's definitely part of the equation.

I got the hawx right before the pandemic and the buckle broke the first time I took em out, so I haven't really got a chance to test how well they're gonna drive, even though I've read they punch above their weight.

[XXX-er]

Not shift specific but IME on frame bindings that will take AT or DIN I always have to adj for BSL and AFD height when I change boots back and forth

from what I have read just getting the AFD setup right seems to be a bigger problem with Shift than other bindings so you better read everthing you can & figure it out

[HAB]

Not shift specific but IME a binding that will take AT or DIN I always have to adj for BSL and AFD height whening change boots back and forth

from what I have read getting the setup right seems to be a bigger problem with Shift than other bindings so you better read everthing you can & figure it out

Yep. IME Shifts work really well when the setup is dialed, but they're fiddly. You're definitely going to need to readjust when swapping boots, and know what you're doing.

Go read the Shift thread, there's good info in there.

[gregL]

I've got atomic hawx 130 at 324mm and lange rx 120 at 328mm.

You sure about those BSL's?

Atomic Hawx 100mm lasts end in "5", Hawx Ultra 98mm lasts end in "0" and Lange RX lasts end in "6."

In any case, yes, you should adjust them each time you change boots.

[eSock]

You sure about those BSL's?

Atomic Hawx 100mm lasts end in "5", Hawx Ultra 98mm lasts end in "0" and Lange RX lasts end in "6."

In any case, yes, you should adjust them each time you change boots.

Oops, I stand corrected, I was trying to go off memory. The Lange RX are indeed 326. I couldn't find the length in mm on the Hawx boot, but it says 102mm narrow on the bottom?

EDIT: Evo site says it's 322mm

[gregL]

Oops, I stand corrected, I was trying to go off memory. The Lange RX are indeed 326. I couldn't find the length in mm on the Hawx boot, but it says 102mm narrow on the bottom?

EDIT: Evo site says it's 322mm

322mm is a possibility if it is a Hawx Ultra XTD (walk mode boot), not sure what you have as 102mm is the Magna, their "wide" boot - Hawx Ultras are 98mm.

[HAB]

322mm is a possibility if it is a Hawx Ultra XTD (walk mode boot), not sure what you have as 102mm is the Magna, their "wide" boot - Hawx Ultras are 98mm.

Wouldn't a 28.5 Ultra XTD actually be a 102mm last? I know the Ultras are nominally 98mm, but that's the 26.5. 322 BSL checks out for a 28.5.

[gregL]

Wouldn't a 28.5 Ultra XTD actually be a 102mm last? I know the Ultras are nominally 98mm, but that's the 26.5. 322 BSL checks out for a 28.5.

Yes, but I've never seen them print it on the sole. Could be something new, I've sold a bunch of XTD's this season and never looked at the bottoms.

[eSock]

Yeah, I guess I should be more specific when talking to a boot fitter about boot models haha, forgot the Ultra XTD part. I got em in the spring from evo, otter set me up with em!

At least I got the 4mm bsl difference right

[kid-kapow]

The difference in weight between boots and BGs makes me question if I'm gonna enjoy a full day of trying to drive such a hefty ski with such a light boot, so that's definitely part of the equation.

I have lots and lots of days on ON3Ps (BGs, C&Ds, Wrens and Woods) mounted with Shifts and used with XTD 130s - aka my main resort setup. I really like the combination of lighter FOMOfied boots+bindings and a full on ski. I find that the bindings and boots compliments each other nicely.

I've primarily used XTDs with XTD120 liners (aka beefier) inbounds and ProTours while touring (still more supportive than the first year stock liners) though, upgraded with Booster straps this last season. Both beefier liners and especially Booster straps are well worth it imho - making the XTDs even more capable.

Besides, BGs are not so much driven through the front as from a centered stance, so your setup should work wonders

And yeah, you will def 100% need to adjust the AFD and forward pressure between those two boots. If not, prepare for a prerelease fest

[doebedoe]

@kapow -- were the protours a pretty direct fit replacement for the stock? I'm still on the 1st year stock liners (orange flimsy things) and they are in need of replacement. Thinking protour in the same size. Touring only.

[HAB]

@kapow -- were the protours a pretty direct fit replacement for the stock? I'm still on the 1st year stock liners (orange flimsy things) and they are in need of replacement. Thinking protour in the same size. Touring only.

I've got MV Pro Tours in the older black/orange shell XTD 130s. They're a little bit more snug than the stock liners, especially in the heel and ankle. Using 26 liners in a 26.5 shell.

If your shell fit isn't super tight they should work nicely. If you're really tight, there's the LV version.

[doebedoe]

Cool -- thanks HAB. i'm in the older shell too. Thinking the MV should be right, it's a good fit but not aggressive. Heel/ankle in these already fits my foot really well but I imagine it's no problem to pack a little more in there with some heat molding to finish it off.

[eSock]

Hmm, maybe getting a downhill liner for the hawx (ultra xtd) on the inbounds powder days will make swapping boots unnecessary..

[sidewaysbeater]

Hmm, maybe getting a downhill liner for the hawx (ultra xtd) on the inbounds powder days will make swapping boots unnecessary..

What model year are the Hawx? I'm guessing 19/20? The newer ones have a much beefier downhill liner that's supposed to be very similar to the non XTD one I think. They're selling them separately too.

I picked up a 20/21 pair and the flex feels pretty much as stiff as my s max 120s so I'm hoping I can just retire them.

[eSock]

What model year are the Hawx? I'm guessing 19/20? The newer ones have a much beefier downhill liner that's supposed to be very similar to the non XTD one I think. They're selling them separately too.

I picked up a 20/21 pair and the flex feels pretty much as stiff as my s max 120s so I'm hoping I can just retire them.

Yup, picked em up last spring.

[atree]

Yup, picked em up last spring.

There’s definitely a tweaking process to get shifts set correctly. I put inserts in all of my skis and regularly swap bindings around based on conditions and boot/binding combinations, particularly when traveling. The one pair of skis I have mounted with shifts are a static combo. No way would I swap bindings/boots with shifts. They get the same boots every time. But they ski really well once you dial in the adjustment.


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[DarthMarkus]

I would guess it's true with Shifts as it has been with frame bindings this whole time - but if you do end up adjusting the AFD for different boot heights, make sure that you dial the AFD down lower before you make the adjustment. Don't jam a boot into it if the AFD is cranked up to a high height.

[SkiLyft]

Came here to say that after attempting to use inserts with the shift and swapping between 2 pairs of skis the fiddle factor is real.

The shift works wonderfully when it’s adjusted and left alone. Swapping boots and skis with the shift isn’t all that great!


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[kid-kapow]

@kapow -- were the protours a pretty direct fit replacement for the stock? I'm still on the 1st year stock liners (orange flimsy things) and they are in need of replacement. Thinking protour in the same size. Touring only.

sorry for the belated reply - did not notice your post.

I too run the MV liner - 26s in a 25.5 shell pr Intuition's recommendation to size up with ProTours + added custom foot beds - in my black/orange first year Hawx XTD130s. They fit quite well after a bit of use / molding, though when you do not use them for a while they grow tight again (duh). They are a bit more snug than stock first year XTD120-liners and actually a bit more supportive (due to snugger fit and lacing), though as they are worn in that difference is negated. They tour a lot better than my XTD120 liners though. T

he XTD130 + ProTour liner combo ski really well and are comfortable. The ProTours are lighter than stock too my memory serves me right, so you end up with a very light, yet surprisingly capable setup.

I can't remember how ProTours compare to the stock 130 liners - I hardly used them before making the switch.

[huckmadtrix]

I too have experience issues with the toe height and AFD. I feel like even when it's adjusted securely there's still a "click" in the toe when I'm skating and putting pressure down on the AFD. Techs say leave a business card gap between boot sole and AFD. Are people doing that and living with the small amount of movement?