USFS proposed rule to revamp eMTB access (Sept. 2020)

[SkiLyft]

Damnit #keepgrinchinhisemtbthread

Stop cluttering up all the other bike threads with your opinions.


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[livefreerdie]

You think that would work?
Talk about entitlement. ....
The only "reasonable" forecast is that the added emtb riders will add to advocacy. Cranky old fucks are so entitled they will offer up anything to fire under the bus . Like their rights are the only that matter. A plain and simple exercise in cowardice and entitlement all rolled into a turd soup

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You have actually touched on a point that I had not considered. Boomers are the people who can afford and stand to gain the most by buying eMTBs. They are well know the be the crankiest old fkrs who only care about their own rights, turd soup etc... so they might as well be mobilized by the MTB advocates. It's an interesting thought.

[grinch]

Damnit #keepgrinchinhisemtbthread

Stop cluttering up all the other bike threads with your opinions.


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Gfy. Its a forum. Dont like it dont read it. Makes more sense than the dumbasses forecasting with their entitled feelings. Facts. You should look that up bro

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[smartyiak]

Even simpler to say no e-bikes on non-motorized trails rather than trying to distinguish between them.

That’s sorta where lots of places are now...and how’s that workin?


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[grinch]

Although the entitled part would seem to fit your persona. You messaged me asking questions about town/skiing. Answered all your questions as a friendly neighbor would. Changed your plans so figured no need to reply. No reply let alone a thanks. Just at your beck and call bro. #entitled

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[SkiLyft]

Gfy. Its a forum. Dont like it dont read it. Makes more sense than the dumbasses forecasting with their entitled feelings. Facts. You should look that up bro

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Giving you shit, I adore your passion!


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[mall walker]

riding an ebike* makes you an enormous dork at best, but I really do think if people who ski tour / climb / hike / trail run / cycle / etc could get along better with people who hunt / ride atvs / ride mopeds / etc we would have a louder and more unified voice in favor of keeping public lands public

how about an #anythingbuthorses group eh?

*edit: emtb, not ebike... ebikes for commuting (as an alternative to driving, instead of an alternative to exercising, which is what an emtb is ) are obviously fantastic alternatives to cars in many respects

[SkiLyft]

how about an #anythingbuthorses group eh?

Yeah FUCK horses RAH RAH



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[tgapp]

riding an ebike makes you an enormous dork at best, but I really do think if people who ski tour / climb / hike / trail run / cycle / etc could get along better with people who hunt / ride atvs / ride mopeds / etc we would have a louder and more unified voice in favor of keeping public lands public

how about an #anythingbuthorses group eh?

+100, this. really well put.

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[grinch]

You have actually touched on a point that I had not considered. Boomers are the people who can afford and stand to gain the most by buying eMTBs. They are well know the be the crankiest old fkrs who only care about their own rights, turd soup etc... so they might as well be mobilized by the MTB advocates. It's an interesting thought.

Boomers!? What are you on about. The kids will be all on these. Thats who want them. Right now its split between old fucks, long time mtbers and ex moto guys. Its ok to care about your own rights as long as its not to the exclusion of other peoples rights. Class1 riders arent infringing on anyones fun unless you count the increase in riders. There only 1k -1.5k more than a similar mtb. No need for xtr drivetrain on an eeb so closer to 1k more. Ya theyre great for older people but that is only a fraction. A dwindling fraction. Funfact- im not a dentist.

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[grinch]

riding an ebike makes you an enormous dork at best, but I really do think if people who ski tour / climb / hike / trail run / cycle / etc could get along better with people who hunt / ride atvs / ride mopeds / etc we would have a louder and more unified voice in favor of keeping public lands public

how about an #anythingbuthorses group eh?

Nothing against horses here. Nice to see some smokin cowgirls on the trail. To each their own.
I dont see where you get the "enormous dork" thing. Always a better look to have a dialed bike E or mtb than a mix match of pricey parts on an old bike......with probably a 150mm stem.
Once again for the bizillionth time. Research bro. I burn more calories and gain more fitness on the eeb. Mtb inheretantly involves intervals. You want to ride trail on an mtb , youre doing intervals. Interval riding requires rest and days off. With the eeb ill ride days on end at endurance pace and put in an interval when i want. I may burn more calories in a day on the mtb but ill end up taking a day or 2 off. In a week on the eeb ill burn more on the emtb than the mtb, not to mention more vert , jumps and turns. I couldnt give af about training but i know it allows me to ride more and increase fitness so i can ride more. I may not gain as much explosive power or climbing speed but im not racing. I could do endurance pace to gain endurance fitness on a road bike but road bikes suck and id rather ride my endurance pace days on dirt and use the mode selector to keep me from interval or sprint zone to avoid burning out. No training schedule, just listen to my legs. Feel like pushing i take the mtb and it ends with some intervals because its mtb. Feel like laps or exploring its the emtb because endurance pace means i can ride long and recover faster to ride the next day. You need to compile the facts before you just throw out your impressions all willy nilly

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[mall walker]

lol dude I don’t care at all, ride whatever you want. shit I drive my car around for fun sometimes. BUT you are ridiculously easy to provoke on this issue so apologies if in the course of actually agreeing with you I could not help making fun of you a tiny bit

[El Chupacabra]

Are there E-penny farthing bikes, for the lazy hipsters?

[grinch]

lol dude I don’t care at all, ride whatever you want. shit I drive my car around for fun sometimes. BUT you are ridiculously easy to provoke on this issue so apologies if in the course of actually agreeing with you I could not help making fun of you a tiny bit

Fuck!! Ill give you props for that. It does give me an avenue to put out the facts though. Someone on the E forum said they wouldnt ride such and such bike because the noise of that motor is too much for their hearing. I said i guess i cant ride a haibike because it hurts my already failing eyesight. It has/had a distinctly emtb look/shape/lines. Just joking of course but it kind of did in the early days of learning. Now i see the function as form and there's a certain attractiveness to that form that comes from knowing the function it provides. Theyre toned down now and almost classical understated with the much smaller motors and shaped internal batteries and clean mtb like lines. Im glad theres still a distinct look, albeit less distinct now, because that distinction just says fun day to me. Sounds crazy because you'd have to see the lay up but if i could take someone on an emtb on a few select local trails in the area and end of at rmr bike park it would blow their mind. The park is shaped for emtb use. Almost like the skiing. Its great in bounds but ther's a shit ton of amazing off the gondi backcountry/ob that you can seriously maximize with an emtb. 8k vert of sick trail that you couldnt possibly do in a day without an emtb and getting gondi laps. I could put 3 seperate 6500ft laps in now and next year itll be 5 and still trail left to do

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[panchosdad]

That’s sorta where lots of places are now...and how’s that workin?


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Just fine.

[splat]

Will there even be signage for all these classifications of trails?
Seems like it'd be a no brainer, but less brains has been quite popular lately.

[Conundrum]

riding an ebike* makes you an enormous dork at best, but I really do think if people who ski tour / climb / hike / trail run / cycle / etc could get along better with people who hunt / ride atvs / ride mopeds / etc we would have a louder and more unified voice in favor of keeping public lands public

how about an #anythingbuthorses group eh?

*edit: emtb, not ebike... ebikes for commuting (as an alternative to driving, instead of an alternative to exercising, which is what an emtb is ) are obviously fantastic alternatives to cars in many respects

I hunt out of my backpack and it’s a lot harder than the backpacking or climbing I’ve done. I also BC ski, ride bikes, kayak and raft. The problem with this whole debate is compartmentalizing groups. I know hunters who are equestrians. I know guys who ski and rope. There’s a lot f people who do a lot of things. Forest access is becoming race protests for people with means.

[Eluder]

I am not trying to say ebiking should be banned or anything but it’s just not the same sport, if it was they wouldn't exist. I think they are fun and have a place just so that’s clear and some of that place includes were traditional bikes are allowed. Currently I feel like local land managers should make the call, although some are inept a blanket law will only hurt everyone at stake here. There are trails locally that allow bikes but no moto that I think it makes sense to allow them but there are also multi use trails close to town that I think are a bad Idea and would only lead to bikes as a whole being banned.

Easier access and more users aren’t always a good thing, I totally understand the entitled argument, but a line has to be drawn somewhere doesn’t it? You may be safe on your ebike but not even all class 1 ebikes are the same, some have unpredictable thrust and an unskilled rider could cause some damage on a heavy bike easily. Just because you can control your ebike that doesn’t mean every user can, just because yours is refined and manageable doesn’t mean all on the market are, yes these are broad statements that could be extrapolated to traditional bikes but the whole purpose of ebikes is to broaden the access which intern brings in unexperienced riders potentially at speeds they shouldn’t be. All I am saying is there isn’t a simple answer and in the end its most likely all bikers, ebikers included are going to get screwed if we don’t do this in an intelligent and thought out manner.

[grinch]

I am not trying to say ebiking should be banned or anything but it’s just not the same sport, if it was they wouldn't exist. I think they are fun and have a place just so that’s clear and some of that place includes were traditional bikes are allowed. Currently I feel like local land managers should make the call, although some are inept a blanket law will only hurt everyone at stake here. There are trails locally that allow bikes but no moto that I think it makes sense to allow them but there are also multi use trails close to town that I think are a bad Idea and would only lead to bikes as a whole being banned.

Easier access and more users aren’t always a good thing, I totally understand the entitled argument, but a line has to be drawn somewhere doesn’t it? You may be safe on your ebike but not even all class 1 ebikes are the same, some have unpredictable thrust and an unskilled rider could cause some damage on a heavy bike easily. Just because you can control your ebike that doesn’t mean every user can, just because yours is refined and manageable doesn’t mean all on the market are, yes these are broad statements that could be extrapolated to traditional bikes but the whole purpose of ebikes is to broaden the access which intern brings in unexperienced riders potentially at speeds they shouldn’t be. All I am saying is there isn’t a simple answer and in the end its most likely all bikers, ebikers included are going to get screwed if we don’t do this in an intelligent and thought out manner.

Thats a bunch of nonsense and more forecasting with out any facts to back it up. Call it a different sport if you want but its identical but with a bit of assist. Im always factoring in the difference of speed between mtb and emtb now. 90% of the time on our trails be it xc , steeper more raw backcountry trails the difference in speed only varies 6-8 mph. On logging roads(no roots , rocks, tight corners im adding 8- 14mph depending on steepness.
The speed is controlled by pushing on the pedals with no throttle. They dont fet away from people. If you could call one second followed by a loss of pedal pressure. Basically a natural safety feature. People dont go running into each other anymore than they would on an mtb. On singletrack 6-8 mph adds up to about 1 sexond in reaction time.
More users equals more $ for trail associations equals more trails, more local business sponsors for associations and more govt funding plain and simple. Thats been the case thus far. Common sense says there is nothing that says that will change.
"Unpredictable thrust" ? Give me a break. Thats untrue and pure hyperbole. You only get so much tourque out of 250w and the motors are so refined now that theyre designs are focused on using the existing power regulation cap as intuitively as they can. Its very predictable and seemless. All of them have the first setting as eco. No one starts out in boost unknowingly. If they were inexperienced and did start out in boost, they might get startled for one second. Theyre not going to keep pedaling after theyre startled. The major design focus and feature is theyre super predictable and intuitive. Some more than others but they are all highly predictable.
Skilled riders go faster and can handle the speed. The unskilled are more cautious. Cant believe i have to type that. Either the skilled or unskilled take their feet off tge pedal and , boom, no assist. Its almost like magic i guess
If youre going to do it "intelligently and thought out" should you do some actual riding on one in all these scenerios that youre just making up? Its this never ending made up scenerio where the emtb uneducated hear "ebike" and automatically envision a rocket booster strapped on a bike mowing down a pack of g ma's and moms pushing strollers. It just isnt happening. Some of your research might begin by looking in all the other industrialized countries where they function without any rash of injuries. Theyre not lawn darts where you close your eyes without helmets and hope you dont get smoked

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[jono]

If an e-bike rolls through the forest on an illegal trail, and no one is around to enforce the ban, was it even there?

Kidding, but not kidding.

Yeah, Grinch will get online and tell everyone about how awesome it was.

Word

[Bunion 2020]

Im always factoring in the difference of speed between mtb and emtb now. 90% of the time on our trails be it xc , steeper more raw backcountry trails the difference in speed only varies 6-8 mph.

That estimate if accurate represents 50-70% increase in speed. Keep in mind that you bought that bike to make it easier to climb. I am no Hinault or Armstrong but I enjoy climbing and 6-8 MPH is a very good pace when climbing on "steeper more raw backcountry trails"

On logging roads(no roots , rocks, tight corners im adding 8- 14mph depending on steepness.

And on a logging road your estimate is also about 50-70% faster than the average P-biker.

But that's OK because they have 2 wheels and are really the same.


Luv ya

[Name Redacted]

Brevity and paragraph spacing would probably help some people get their point across better.

[Iowagriz]

50-70% faster and frequently an inexperienced user. What could go wrong?

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[toast2266]

Brevity and paragraph spacing would probably help some people get their point across better.

Grinch needs 50-70% more words to get his point across.

Maybe if you added a bunch more words, your point would be better too. You should try it.

[Name Redacted]

Grinch needs 50-70% more words to get his point across.

Maybe if you added a bunch more words, your point would be better too. You should try it.

TLDR