Skiing and Covid-19 masks

[SumJongGuy]

I survived wife's COVID in a small house sharing a master bath and spending some time in the bedroom with her under 3M 8210 N95 masks. Full 10 days of her official isolation no issues.. It's not as difficult as naysayers claim to make sure it's fitting correctly. Inhale and feel it pull against your face all around with no leaks = good to go. It leaves some marks for a few minutes when you take it off.

After day 10 still isolated myself because health department told me to stay put 10 days after her 10 days I took it off.. 4 days later I lost my sense of smell Health department told me I didn't have to test but to stay put the full 10 days after losing sense of smell. I did that with no other symptoms and tested positive for antibodies a month later giving blood.. So, ya it worked well but only while I was wearing it hahahaha!

Edit timeline to show N95 worked:
Dec 11th 2020 wife (had headache for several days) collapses after work and has seizure, 911 to hospital. Tests positive.
Dec 12th wife home, me and daughter wearing N95s
Dec 15th me and daughter PCR test negative
Dec 19th me and daughter PCR test negative
Dec 21st health department contact tracing clears wife as no longer contagious
Dec 22nd we stop earing N95 masks but stay home additional isolation per contact tracing.
Christmas Day I lost sense of smell. I called the contact tracer assigned to us and they said just stay home and ride it out unless it gets severe.
Early Feb blood donation reactive for antibodies.

N95 around COVID + in tight space all 10 days protected.. Take it off and BAM..

[Trackhead]

I try to do a neg/pos pressure test every time I put my N95 on to go in somewhere, but I can usually tell if I have a good seal or not from my glasses and the slight inflation of the mask. Interesting to see the more thorough procedure:

This is qualitative testing, not great, and very subjective. Any facility worth a damn should be doing quantitative testing with a PortaCount machine or similar. Tests actual particulate in surrounding air, plus INSIDE the N95 via a fitting for test sensor inside mask. Requires destroying N95 but superior testing metric. I can never taste/smell the quantitative test solutions, so no clue if mask fit is effective.

[Trackhead]

Holy shit. I generally get my Envo mask mostly secured. But, periodically I grab the used (by me) N-95 by my work station and book into a room to stop the covid dementia patient from taking a header.

And- pretty sure we can expect a bunch more of this.

Your response to this video tells me your facility has not fit tested you, this is a fucking OSHA requirement. Have you been fit tested with your mask you utilize?

[Name Redacted]

I survived wife's COVID in a small house sharing a master bath and spending some time in the bedroom with her under 3M 8210 N95 masks. Full 10 days of her official isolation no issues.. It's not as difficult as naysayers claim to make sure it's fitting correctly. Inhale and feel it pull against your face all around with no leaks = good to go. It leaves some marks for a few minutes when you take it off.

After day 10 still isolated myself because health department told me to stay put 10 days after her 10 days I took it off.. 4 days later I lost my sense of smell Health department told me I didn't have to test but to stay put the full 10 days after losing sense of smell. I did that with no other symptoms and tested positive for antibodies a month later giving blood.. So, ya it worked well but only while I was wearing it hahahaha!

Edit timeline to show N95 worked:
Dec 11th 2020 wife (had headache for several days) collapses after work and has seizure, 911 to hospital. Tests positive.
Dec 12th wife home, me and daughter wearing N95s
Dec 15th me and daughter PCR test negative
Dec 19th me and daughter PCR test negative
Dec 21st health department contact tracing clears wife as no longer contagious
Dec 22nd we stop earing N95 masks but stay home additional isolation per contact tracing.
Christmas Day I lost sense of smell. I called the contact tracer assigned to us and they said just stay home and ride it out unless it gets severe.
Early Feb blood donation reactive for antibodies.

N95 around COVID + in tight space all 10 days protected.. Take it off and BAM..

Similar story for us last year. Wife isolated away from me in one of our rentals when I had Covid. Came home after 14 days and two days later she has symptoms.

If you decide to leave the house, a perfectly fitted N95 is about the only thing that might keep you from getting the Omicron right now and even that’s a maybe. Good luck keeping it dry while skiing. They lose effectiveness when wet ya know.

Moral of the story is this. Try all you might, if you leave your house right now, you will be exposed to Omicron, at least around these parts. If you decide to take that chance, then be prepared by being vaccinated and you’ll be fine.

[Trackhead]

Moral of the story is this. Try all you might, if you leave your house right now, you will be exposed to Omicron, at least around these parts. If you decide to take that chance, then be prepared by being vaccinated and you’ll be fine.

I think most non-obese under 65 will be fine, I think there will be hypoxia admissions in vaccinated over 65. My disease burden so far is "mild", but certainly has a significant pulmonary aspect that will tip vulnerable over the edge. And yes, I like what you brought up about wet N95, they function on electrostatic attraction principles, not necessarily "pore size" like a coffee or water filter, and water negates that. Condensation during skiing.......

[SumJongGuy]

I think most non-obese under 65 will be fine, I think there will be hypoxia admissions in vaccinated over 65. My disease burden so far is "mild", but certainly has a significant pulmonary aspect that will tip vulnerable over the edge. And yes, I like what you brought up about wet N95, they function on electrostatic attraction principles, not necessarily "pore size" like a coffee or water filter, and water negates that. Condensation during skiing.......

Think of it like how spraying water on static charged cloth removes that static cling. I do think a light spray of Lysol won't wreck an N95, but if it gets soaked it's toast.

Duke Starts Innovative Decontamination of N95 Masks to Help Relieve Shortages
The process uses vaporized hydrogen peroxide to kill germs without degrading the masks

I don't think the experts have delivered anything beyond the general consensus that Omicron is definitely more contagious and possibly less lethal. Incubates twice as fast. I'd still hope that outdoors with distance folks are OK but side by side or face to face for more than a couple (2-3?) minutes everyone should be masked again even outdoors.

Bringing back a mask mandate in lines won't go well at all. Folks are too fatigued and convinced that it won't be them who ends up on the vent so fuck it, let's ski. Bummer to be that selfish.

[jono]

GWS Trackhead.

If this thread is about skiing the OSHA stuff is way beyond the scope. All the filtration and fit rules assume an environment where the contaminant is evenly distributed (a closed space, for starters). N95's are an industrial solution to give workers some disposable protection. IOW, to keep labor cheap with enforceable standards. Skiing is not addressed well there.

A mask outdoors can be helpful with no filtration at all just by slowing the speed of exhaled particles. Effectively increasing the distance between people. Giving the breeze a chance. For skiing, an "N50" that stays put on everyone is much, much better than wet, crumpled N95s on most people (most masks are very roughly twice as effective against exhale as inhale and an "N" value is based on the worst case particle size--larger particles are much more effectively filtered).

Nothing against getting all sciency and shit, but maybe just dialing it back from hyperbole and false dichotomy would be more useful (not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, this discussion just seems to be drawing out the all or nothing).

[HHTELE]

Your response to this video tells me your facility has not fit tested you, this is a fucking OSHA requirement. Have you been fit tested with your mask you utilize?

Oddly, the guy doing fit testing for my patrol does a better job than than my hospital. Ironic, skiers outside are a relatively low risk.
I had him test me on the Envo, and it killed it. I generally use that.
My hospital does require annual fit testing. I am actually overdue. I don't care, because I am more invested in my health than they are, and what I have works. I have been tested with the hospital supplied n-95 as well. They take a brand new one, and test it in a very undemanding environment with minimal movement. Not exactly like working a covid code. So, I work in something I am comfortable about, and don't give a shit about their testing.

[The SnowShow]

If anyone sees this dickwad at ABasin, please give him the ole right there Fred. He seems to think it’s funny that people’s parents have died during Covid and says it’s a fakedemic.

[AK47bp]

Flat brim…..checks out


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[Trackhead]

GWS Trackhead.

If this thread is about skiing the OSHA stuff is way beyond the scope. All the filtration and fit rules assume an environment where the contaminant is evenly distributed (a closed space, for starters). N95's are an industrial solution to give workers some disposable protection. IOW, to keep labor cheap with enforceable standards. Skiing is not addressed well there.

A mask outdoors can be helpful with no filtration at all just by slowing the speed of exhaled particles. Effectively increasing the distance between people. Giving the breeze a chance. For skiing, an "N50" that stays put on everyone is much, much better than wet, crumpled N95s on most people (most masks are very roughly twice as effective against exhale as inhale and an "N" value is based on the worst case particle size--larger particles are much more effectively filtered).

Nothing against getting all sciency and shit, but maybe just dialing it back from hyperbole and false dichotomy would be more useful (not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, this discussion just seems to be drawing out the all or nothing).

Sorry, you're right. Thread drift is a common phenomenon on TGR, but now that we're all dentists, I'll stay on topic. Was responding from a healthcare perspective, and all I've done at work since this summer is covid. 90% of my day, so view is skewed a bit.

From a skiing perspective, fuck masks, fuck covid. Nothing will stop this shit. If you recently got a booster, better off getting covid now than in 2-3 months depending on your age/comorbidities (I'll spare you the science, per your request). In terms of catching it outdoors, on a chair, with wind.....unlikely, but who knows. On a tram, different story, you're getting it. In the lodge, same, you're getting it sooner than later.

I don't care if someone wears a mask or not on a chair, in a lodge, a grocery store, or anywhere. My risk perspective. Covid is here to stay (in some form or another). Unacceptable risk? Then don't go on the tram.

[Trackhead]

Oddly, the guy doing fit testing for my patrol does a better job than than my hospital. Ironic, skiers outside are a relatively low risk.
I had him test me on the Envo, and it killed it. I generally use that.
My hospital does require annual fit testing. I am actually overdue. I don't care, because I am more invested in my health than they are, and what I have works. I have been tested with the hospital supplied n-95 as well. They take a brand new one, and test it in a very undemanding environment with minimal movement. Not exactly like working a covid code. So, I work in something I am comfortable about, and don't give a shit about their testing.

Yup, those Envo's are nice. I've sorta given up trying to avoid covid in clinical environment. Half the patients I see test positive as an after-thought, right after I finish assessing cranial nerve #9 and get a face full.

[jono]

Sorry, you're right. Thread drift is a common phenomenon on TGR, but now that we're all dentists, I'll stay on topic. Was responding from a healthcare perspective, and all I've done at work since this summer is covid. 90% of my day, so view is skewed a bit.

From a skiing perspective, fuck masks, fuck covid. Nothing will stop this shit. If you recently got a booster, better off getting covid now than in 2-3 months depending on your age/comorbidities (I'll spare you the science, per your request). In terms of catching it outdoors, on a chair, with wind.....unlikely, but who knows. On a tram, different story, you're getting it. In the lodge, same, you're getting it sooner than later.

I don't care if someone wears a mask or not on a chair, in a lodge, a grocery store, or anywhere. My risk perspective. Covid is here to stay (in some form or another). Unacceptable risk? Then don't go on the tram.

No apology needed, I'm not remotely qualified to oppose thread drift, I was just pointing out that it is drift--different answers to different questions.

Nor would I request anyone avoid science, just hyperbole. On the contrary, if you need to bring some science to get over the black and white certainty, please do. For that matter, it sounds like I have a chance to go catch omicron this afternoon if I want, so if you've got an argument in favor that'd actually be really interesting. TIA

[old goat]

Those ENVO masks--with the shield to protect the filter from the wet- look interesting for someone who wants protection in the gondola, want to be able to leave it on skiing or on the chair, and doesn't mind being the subject in the gaper thread.

[Hott Butt Mud]

How about no one is even wearing a real mask either? Again, it's theater when not everyone is wearing N95/KN95 or at very least a surgical mask. When it's just a buff mask and probably not covering the nose too....

[Conundrum]

I’ll be the bad guy here. If someone is lecturing about not riding chairs with the unmasked with no mandate when their house has been full of Covid, I’m less likely to listen.

Signed the the vaxxed and boosted, who wears masks when required and stays home if a public place makes me uncomfortable for Covid reasons.

[jono]

How about no one is even wearing a real mask either? Again, it's theater when not everyone is wearing N95/KN95 or at very least a surgical mask. When it's just a buff mask and probably not covering the nose too....

Professional mask users aside, even buffs aren't as bad as all that.

https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-upd...8/neck-gaiters

"Research on the effectiveness of gaiters and other face coverings is likely to continue. Already Jin Pan, a Virginia Tech graduate student who studies biological particles, is reporting on his preliminary testing of two types of gaiters — a single-layer gaiter made of 100 percent polyester and a two-layer gaiter, made with 87 percent polyester and 13 percent spandex. Pan and his colleagues used mask-testing protocols established by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health and found that both gaiters were at least somewhat effective at blocking respiratory particles. Both blocked 100 percent of very large, 20-micron droplets and at least 50 percent of one-micron aerosols. When it came to smaller particles, the single-layer gaiter blocked only 10 percent of 0.5-micron particles, while the two-layer gaiter blocked 20 percent. However, when the researchers doubled the single-layer gaiter, it blocked more than 90 percent of all particles measured.

Bottom line? Cover your face. Overall, research shows that two layers of anything are better than one and that fit matters — no face covering will be effective if it’s not snug on your face."

[SumJongGuy]

I’ll be the bad guy here. If someone is lecturing about not riding chairs with the unmasked with no mandate when their house has been full of Covid, I’m less likely to listen.

Signed the the vaxxed and boosted, who wears masks when required and stays home if a public place makes me uncomfortable for Covid reasons.

See below: Already noted..

You've never been on a lift that stopped?... for like 10 minutes???

Back to the main question IF IF IF mandated again, will you stay home, comply willingly, or give the staff trying to enforce it a bunch of shit?


I'll walk back the not riding with unmasked to only under a mandate situation. If not mandated I'll either bring a posse to ride together or stay home.. If mandated though I'm gonna be that guy who says not riding with someone not following the rules.

P.S. Wife came down with COVID the week after I was skiing December 2020. I left because the mask requirement in lift lines was only 95% compliance. Ski patrol got tired of yelling at people after about 2 hours. I was outta there by lunch time and headed back home. But the lift ticket only cost $5 that day so got my money's worth and then some..

[Trackhead]

For that matter, it sounds like I have a chance to go catch omicron this afternoon if I want, so if you've got an argument in favor that'd actually be really interesting. TIA

In short: Sucks getting sick, but vaccinated are likely to experience "mild illness" if you consider having a 101 temp and coughing your brains out mild. Roll the dice, just like dropping into an untracked line on a bluebird morning when you dug a pit and made your assessment that it's safe, but you might miss that buried weak layer and die. Or, you might get to the road and look back at your tracks in absolute glory and say fuck you covid.

In face to face primary care/ED settings, I really enjoy these conversations when people are curious.

[SumJongGuy]

I’ll be the bad guy here. If someone is lecturing about not riding chairs with the unmasked with no mandate when their house has been full of Covid, I’m less likely to listen.

Signed the the vaxxed and boosted, who wears masks when required and stays home if a public place makes me uncomfortable for Covid reasons.

In short: Sucks getting sick, but vaccinated are likely to experience "mild illness" if you consider having a 101 temp and coughing your brains out mild. Roll the dice, just like dropping into an untracked line on a bluebird morning when you dug a pit and made your assessment that it's safe, but you might miss that buried weak layer and die. Or, you might get to the road and look back at your tracks in absolute glory and say fuck you covid.

In face to face primary care/ED settings, I really enjoy these conversations when people are curious.

I was thinking those who call wearing a mask in the lift line or on the lift "worst case scenario afraid the sky is falling" but ski everyday in a helmet hypocrites.

[Todds]

A few random thoughts on the subject from a vollie patroller/ER nurse-

Omicron is actually a bit of a game changer. I probably understand this stuff better than most here, and I am not all that knowledgeable. But, I know a bunch of folk who really understand this stuff, and they are changing their behavior doing stuff like masking on lifts. Look at it this way- If you knew, 100% that the person on either side of you was infected with Covid, and you had a decent neckie, or something that would work as a mask- Would you pull it up? FWIW, anybody who works in my ER, Doc, RN, or tech would pull it up. Chances are excellent you will be riding lifts with somebody infected with Covid.

Wearing a mask is pretty easy. Even if you think you know that it doesn't help, it may make a fellow skier feel better. It's a pretty easy way to do something for somebody else.

The OR Ubertube is really good piece of ski kit. If this fucking pandemic ever ends, I'll still wear mine. Not tested or verified, but probably as good as most stuff out there. Much easier than a surgical mask, and when I use the nosepiece correctly, no fogging. Also good for driving around doing errands. Pull it up to go into stores.

Ski areas are already struggling to stay open, and some will probably close because of staff outbreaks. This will be driven by employees who don't vaccinate or take precautions. Already services are being limited, and I know that patrols are helping other departments, as they tend to be some of the healthier employees, and are often come from a culture that does stuff like vaccinate and take precautions- or are required to vaccinate as they are health care workers.

Complaining about ski area restrictions is pointless. In my area, people are losing their shit because they can't boot up in the lodge, and have no idea how that policy could help reduce transmission. Management is mostly doing the best they can. I get the frustration with theater- I still get screened going into the hospital, as if I don't know what the fuck Covid looks like, and I am going to say "Why, now that you mention it, I do have a fever, and can't taste anything". Even if some of it is theater, if that theater makes some more comfortable, and contributes to an atmosphere of caution it may be worth it.

The fact that Omicron MAY be less lethal than Delta is pretty irrelevant here. It isn't deaths that closes ski areas, it is positive tests. In fact, it isn't even deaths that are mucking up hospitals and the entire healthcare system. It's sick people. Dead people use very little in the way of resources. Think about it- If it's 25% less lethal, but 50% more transmissible, how's that going to work out?

And..... You don't want Covid. You probably won't end up on a vent. You probably won't even go for an ER visit, after all, as a skiing god, you have the lung capacity of a dolphin. But, we don't know what your lungs will look like in 5 years. If you like skiing, do what you can to shave the odds a bit in your favor.

X2

We gotta do everything we can to reduce the spread.

[skinipenem]

Professional mask users aside, even buffs aren't as bad as all that.

https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-upd...8/neck-gaiters

"Research on the effectiveness of gaiters and other face coverings is likely to continue. Already Jin Pan, a Virginia Tech graduate student who studies biological particles, is reporting on his preliminary testing of two types of gaiters — a single-layer gaiter made of 100 percent polyester and a two-layer gaiter, made with 87 percent polyester and 13 percent spandex. Pan and his colleagues used mask-testing protocols established by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health and found that both gaiters were at least somewhat effective at blocking respiratory particles. Both blocked 100 percent of very large, 20-micron droplets and at least 50 percent of one-micron aerosols. When it came to smaller particles, the single-layer gaiter blocked only 10 percent of 0.5-micron particles, while the two-layer gaiter blocked 20 percent. However, when the researchers doubled the single-layer gaiter, it blocked more than 90 percent of all particles measured.

Bottom line? Cover your face. Overall, research shows that two layers of anything are better than one and that fit matters — no face covering will be effective if it’s not snug on your face."

This is a good point. Some very false information in this thread. Wearing any kind of mask protects you and others from covid transmission to various degrees depending on type of mask and if you or the other person in your vicinity is the infected. I have a cartoon (Figure) of this somewhere showing the data.. if I get motivated I'll post it up (I'm not that motivated.)

Wear a fricking mask already. Hospitals were already strained for capacity before the pandemic. In our current situation patients can't get transferred to hospitals with higher levels of care, elective surgeries continue to be intermittently cancelled, etc... grow the hell up already or be prepared for us to say sorry Charlie, but your Acl repair is going to have to wait awhile.

Not wearing a mask makes you a selfish POS.

At least we aren't debating the benefit of vaccination and boosters at the moment.

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[Trackhead]

Not wearing a mask makes you a selfish POS.

At least we aren't debating the benefit of vaccination and boosters at the moment.

It's hard to debate vaccine/booster benefit with any logical person who believes the world is round. I do not feel those not wearing masks where not mandated are selfish POS though.

Oh, and I see what you did there with imipenem.

Omicron will touch everyone, very soon.

[Name Redacted]

Omicron will touch everyone, very soon.

Honestly, why even try to avoid it at this point? It is coming for you, and if you aren't fully vaccinated, good luck with all that. Wearing a mask, especially if it isn't an N95, is just a courtesy for other at this point. An acknowledgement that there is still a pandemic going on.

[Trackhead]

Honestly, why even try to avoid it at this point? It is coming for you, and if you aren't fully vaccinated, good luck with all that. Wearing a mask, especially if it isn't an N95, is just a courtesy for other at this point. An acknowledgement that there is still a pandemic going on.

Well, anecdotally, my wife got boosted four weeks ago, me 10 weeks ago. I got sick, she didn't. 10 yr old had covid, got first shot 3 weeks ago, remains asymptomatic. I'm on day 6 of covid, so hopeful they have one of those highly sought after asymptomatic cases.

So my point, is it better to shake hands with Omicron closer to time of booster hoping for asymptomatic or mild case, or is my N=3 anecdote total bullshit. Not sure. Also, can't ignore previous infection and resulting polyclonal immune response/memory.

Disclaimer: not advocating for running out and swapping spit with nearest covid patient.