Ahmaud Arbery

[CHAIR_97]

So does washington the state where you live

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[AK47bp]

Well then that’s fucked up.


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[jono]

Well then that’s fucked up.

Not if it requires witnessing a crime. Pretty critical piece missing for these assholes.

[AK47bp]

Even if they witnessed this guy trespassing, does that mean you can lawfully chase someone down using threat of deadly force?

I could see calling the cops and tailing (pursuit) someone to assist the cops in locating the person but pulling a gun on someone to stop them has to be illegal. How would the person know who the hell was threatening them?

I don’t know, I’ll let the lawyers lawyer and hopefully these fucks go away for a long time.


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[ill-advised strategy]

But one other thing to consider: how do you know he didn't decide that the risks were worth it? That we (really he and other young black men) will never get to that place we hope to reach if guys like him reliably comply with that kind of bullshit and he wasn't going to take it anymore? That's a valid decision and if he did think about this kind of situation ahead of time (which...duh) and this was his reaction.

Fair point. Went out like a soldier.
I hope this is the last time this has to happen. Ever. Fuck all this shit.

[XXX-er]

There were > 15000 gun last year excluding suicides so probably not

[Ted Striker]

The questions a jury will answer is was he legally pursued and was he lawfully engaged.

How is this the questions you have?

The 2 guys that murdered the victim weren’t law enforcement. You know that right?

There is no such thing as “legally pursued” and “lawfully engaged” by regular civilians.

Georgia has a citizens arrest law, the caveat is that you need to witness the crime being committed, which doesn't appear to be the case here.

Even if they witnessed this guy trespassing, does that mean you can lawfully chase someone down using threat of deadly force?

I could see calling the cops and tailing (pursuit) someone to assist the cops in locating the person but pulling a gun on someone to stop them has to be illegal. How would the person know who the hell was threatening them?

The actual law:


TITLE 17 - CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
CHAPTER 4 - ARREST OF PERSONS
ARTICLE 4 - ARREST BY PRIVATE PERSONS
O.C.G.A. 17-4-60 (2010)
17-4-60. Grounds for arrest

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

The bolding is mine.


The McMichaels didn't witness any crime. They saw a guy run down the street. Period. That's it.

Let's say that the earlier 911 call about the guy entering a construction site was Arbery. The caller wasn't either of the McMichaels, and the report was that someone was trespassing. Criminal trespass is a misdemeanor in GA, and simply entering an open construction site might not even rise to that.
https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia...ction-16-7-21/

It's not even clear if that's Arbery on the surveillance video either for that matter.

So without witnessing a crime in (either of) their presence, and without immediate knowledge that any crime - let alone a felony - was committed that day, the McMichaels armed themselves, pursued an unarmed man on foot with a pickup truck, shouted commands at him, attempted to apprehend him, and ultimately shot and killed him.

If Arbery were a white woman that would read like a botched kidnaping.

[seano732]

The actual law:


TITLE 17 - CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
CHAPTER 4 - ARREST OF PERSONS
ARTICLE 4 - ARREST BY PRIVATE PERSONS
O.C.G.A. 17-4-60 (2010)
17-4-60. Grounds for arrest

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

The bolding is mine.


The McMichaels didn't witness any crime. They saw a guy run down the street. Period. That's it.

Let's say that the earlier 911 call about the guy entering a construction site was Arbery. The caller wasn't either of the McMichaels, and the report was that someone was trespassing. Criminal trespass is a misdemeanor in GA, and simply entering an open construction site might not even rise to that.
https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia...ction-16-7-21/

It's not even clear if that's Arbery on the surveillance video either for that matter.

So without witnessing a crime in (either of) their presence, and without immediate knowledge that any crime - let alone a felony - was committed that day, the McMichaels armed themselves, pursued an unarmed man on foot with a pickup truck, shouted commands at him, attempted to apprehend him, and ultimately shot and killed him.

If Arbery were a white woman that would read like a botched kidnaping.

Thanks Ted. Some group of assholes is already posting pictures allegedly of Ahmaud in the house under construction with the tag line “just out for a jog” on social media......So there you have it. Trespassing while black= death sentence in S. Georgia.....Fuck ALL of em.

[ex-powderbroker]

how about the shitheads that photoshopped him in timberlands?

[m2711c]

just obey commands....





don't fight when attacked.

[Kopi_Red]

https://youtu.be/WljQd53vnOk

[riser4]

Say his name fast enough and it sounds like 'armed robbery.'

I wish I could unknow this.

[spanghew]

I wish I could unknow this.

https://youtu.be/5yw2yKNLEPc

[Long duc dong]

The actual law:


TITLE 17 - CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
CHAPTER 4 - ARREST OF PERSONS
ARTICLE 4 - ARREST BY PRIVATE PERSONS
O.C.G.A. 17-4-60 (2010)
17-4-60. Grounds for arrest

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

The bolding is mine.


The McMichaels didn't witness any crime. They saw a guy run down the street. Period. That's it.

Let's say that the earlier 911 call about the guy entering a construction site was Arbery. The caller wasn't either of the McMichaels, and the report was that someone was trespassing. Criminal trespass is a misdemeanor in GA, and simply entering an open construction site might not even rise to that.
https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia...ction-16-7-21/

It's not even clear if that's Arbery on the surveillance video either for that matter.

So without witnessing a crime in (either of) their presence, and without immediate knowledge that any crime - let alone a felony - was committed that day, the McMichaels armed themselves, pursued an unarmed man on foot with a pickup truck, shouted commands at him, attempted to apprehend him, and ultimately shot and killed him.

If Arbery were a white woman that would read like a botched kidnaping.

Thanks for the write up Ted. Law is not my field, so I am quite ignorant on many of the intricacies that involve issues like citizen arrest. Obviously I had heard of it, but I really did not know a thing about it.

I like your ending statement about if Arbery were a white woman, but with all due respect I'm going to tweak it a bit.

Let us say that a 25 year old white man is jogging through a predominantly African-American area. Let's say we have exactly the same video, and the rest of what we know is the same, except that in this case it is a couple of black guys with guns chasing a white guy. If he attempts to flee, gets in an altercation when one of the black guys gets out of the car, and gets shot, would the whites who are supporting these guys SERIOUSLY be calling the black guys heroes? Of course not. If we switch it around we can really see how insane it is.

As for people saying he should not have fought back when confronted by people with guns, it is easy to armchair quarterback. If a group of black guys with guns was chasing me, and I was in an area where I knew there were lots of blacks who hated whites, would I just obey? I don't know that just obeying made sense, I can see someone thinking they are about to be killed and that the only scenario is to fight back and run. Given what occurred that actually seems very plausible. Seriously, if you were a black guy and a couple of white guys with guns come up and order you around I can very easily see reacting the way this guy did. A completely logical inference might be that they are going to either kill you or take you somewhere and kill you. I think fearing for one's life in such a situation is very rational, and a perfectly rational action would be to run and possibly fight back. The scenario of having a gun pulled on you by a hitchhiker is not all that strong of a parallel. Arbery could not have known who these guys were, he just knew they didn't have badges (and he might have had reason to fear in that scenario too) and I can easily see someone thinking that running/fighting back is the only chance for survival. I don't necessarily see this as a situation where he WANTED to fight back because he was being a tough guy, he probably thought that his actions were the best he could possibly take in order to survive. I can certainly see why he felt that way. He probably felt that his life was being put in danger. He was certainly right.

This is horrible all-around, but I would think the fact that the elder gunman was a retired cop would possibly give some of the people he convicted a shot at getting free. The actions he took are a serious destruction of his credibility. The fact that this was a man who was supposedly trained to make the right decision casts some serious doubt on his career in law enforcement. This was senseless, and it absolutely did not have to happen.

I don't feel remotely safe with idiots like this driving around. I don't know what the grounds are for a trial to be moved, but this one probably should be.

It is interesting that brandishing a firearm can be considered assault. I didn't know that, but I like it.

[seano732]

Georgia AG asks DOJ to launch investigation.....

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/10/85358...ud-arbery-case

[neufox47]

Georgia AG asks DOJ to launch investigation.....

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/10/85358...ud-arbery-case

Bill Barr will get right on that. He’s been so big on defending citizens from prosecutorial and police abuses. He’s probably reviewing the Dred Scott case now for ideas.

[jgb@etree]

Horrible situation all-around, but where are you virtue signaling swj's every monday morning after 10-15 people have been murdered in the streets of Chicago on ANY given weekend? Why is the outrage so selective and racially focused?

[My Pet Powder Goat]

Twat.

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[jackstraw]

Horrible situation all-around, but where are you virtue signaling swj's every monday morning after 10-15 people have been murdered in the streets of Chicago on ANY given weekend? Why is the outrage so selective and racially focused?

Does it physically hurt to be so fucking dumb?

[The AD]

Still trying to figure out what an "swj" is. Single white Jew, I guess.

[riser4]

Still trying to figure out what an "swj" is. Single white Jew, I guess.

Bahahahaha

[GeezerSteve]

More applicable law: Patel v. State, 279 Ga. 750, 620 SE 2d 343 (2005), citing Carter v. State, 269 Ga. 891, 894(7), 506 S.E.2d 124 (1998):

Although a private person may make a citizen's arrest under OCGA § 17-4-60, only force that is reasonable under the circumstances may be used to restrain the individual arrested. . . the use of unreasonable force. . . could not have been part of a legitimate citizen's arrest.

[LeeLau]

Horrible situation all-around, but where are you virtue signaling swj's every monday morning after 10-15 people have been murdered in the streets of Chicago on ANY given weekend? Why is the outrage so selective and racially focused?

You should stick to defending Nazis

[Marshall Tucker]

More applicable law: Patel v. State, 279 Ga. 750, 620 SE 2d 343 (2005), citing Carter v. State, 269 Ga. 891, 894(7), 506 S.E.2d 124 (1998):

I'm not an attorney but read tax law a good bit. found this to be a thoughtful analysis -

"J. Tom Morgan, former DeKalb County district attorney, said, “I cannot start an incident and escalate it to defend myself.” If you are trying to make a citizen’s arrest, the crime must have been committed in your presence, he said.Morgan, who is now a law professor, trotted out a 1920 Georgia Supreme Court case that explored issues eerily similar to this: citizens’ arrest and self-defense. That case concerned two private citizens convicted of murder for shooting a man they thought, wrongly, was involved in an aggravated assault.The case found that “a private citizen has as much right to arrest a fugitive felon, where the emergency calls for immediate action.” And that person “has the right to use such force as may be necessary to compel submission and accomplish the arrest and is not bound to wait until he is actually assaulted before resorting to force.”However, the court in that case ruled against the men, saying, “A person cannot create an emergency which renders it necessary for another to defend himself, and then take advantage of the effort of such person to defend himself in the face of such emergency so created, and justify the taking of the life of such person.”

After the conviction (i hope) I perceive the real fun here will be airing out south georgia politics. will be very interested to see where the Brunswick and waycross DAs shake out.

[Ted Striker]

Thanks for the write up Ted. Law is not my field

It's not mine either (I thought everyone knew that, otherwise I would've made the IANAL disclaimer). It was my Plan B, and in retrospect would have been a much better career. But by all means, I could be full of shit.