Onyx Hub opinions

[stradissimo]

Non-physicist here. Why would high engagement hubs mess with suspension? If you're not pedaling I would think that engagement wouldn't matter

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Anti-squat makes the chain line slightly longer. The theory is that with a high-engagement hub you can feel that as a tiny bit of pedal kick back when the suspension compresses. The chain tension doesn’t let the suspension move freely.

[bagtagley]

I now have a set of the new project 321 hubs that have left me very impressed. I have the quiet pawl option with 216 engagement points. It came pretty damn quiet, then after adding some free hub oil to it, it’s almost silent.

I have the same rear hub, and same experience. What freehub oil are you using? The DuMonde Tech oil they recommend spins well, but needs to be applied more often than I'd like, and is comparatively "loud". Using just grease makes it dead silent, but adds some drag. I've been doing a mix of the oil and some light grease and have been pretty happy.

Only thing I don't like is the effort involved in removing the freehub body. It's really not that involved or difficult, but coming from DT Swiss and Hope, I get annoyed that I even have to remove the cassette.

[S.B.]

On pretty much every full suspension bike, the chainstay length gets longer as the suspension compresses. The chain interferes with that lengthening; tension on the "top" part of the chain will manifest itself as a tug on the pedals when the suspension compresses. This is pedal kickback, and it's easy to see: while off the bike, smack the rear end down. The pedals will spin backwards. Some bikes have more pedal kickback than others, and it'll be different depending on what gear you're in.

This is why you'll hear people say that your suspension works better without a chain on the bike. If you've never coasted downhill on a chainless full suspension bike, you might be surprised at how much better the suspension works. That's why a few world cup teams have experimented with a mechanism to disengage the freehub for portions of the track that don't require pedaling.

In the context of hub engagement, instantaneous engagement means *any* suspension movement is resisted by the chain. The lower the hub engagement, the more the suspension will be able to move before one of the pawls catches and engages the chain.

Anti-squat makes the chain line slightly longer. The theory is that with a high-engagement hub you can feel that as a tiny bit of pedal kick back when the suspension compresses. The chain tension doesn’t let the suspension move freely.

I guess that makes sense, thanks guys. I ride a slash 9.8 with ABP and i9 hubs and I've never noticed this. Either the ABP is working or I'm not in tune enough to notice, which is definitely more likely lol. I do remember watching Gwins chainless race run and hearing him say that the suspension works better with no chain.

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[toast2266]

I guess that makes sense, thanks guys. I ride a slash 9.8 with ABP and i9 hubs and I've never noticed this. Either the ABP is working or I'm not in tune enough to notice, which is definitely more likely lol. I do remember watching Gwins chainless race run and hearing him say that the suspension works better with no chain.

It's really hard to notice until you take your chain off. I used to have that same bike, and thought the suspension worked really well. Then I snapped a chain and did a rough descent chainless. The suspension was very noticeably better.

A low engagement hub isn't going to make the bike ride like it does when it's chainless, but it'll help a bit (at the obvious expense of having shitty engagement on the climbs).

[Gone Skiing]

Just getting acquainted with my new Onyx Vespers. No issues slipping yet, even mashing a 34-51 on a super steep climb or 3. I agree that the instant and soft engagement is awfully helpful in tech moves, especially on a loose surface. They roll great and silent is sweet, although now I have to track down a couple other rattles on the bike!

[gravitylover]

I have the same rear hub, and same experience. What freehub oil are you using? The DuMonde Tech oil they recommend spins well, but needs to be applied more often than I'd like, and is comparatively "loud". Using just grease makes it dead silent, but adds some drag. I've been doing a mix of the oil and some light grease and have been pretty happy.

Only thing I don't like is the effort involved in removing the freehub body. It's really not that involved or difficult, but coming from DT Swiss and Hope, I get annoyed that I even have to remove the cassette.

Have you tried the newer formula Pro X from them? It is a slightly lower viscosity and there is a specific freehub grease https://www.dumondetech.com/pro-x-bicycle-lubricants/ I'm hearing that it makes the 321 hubs as close to silent as it gets.

[Pauldotcom]

I've ridden an Onyx, and it's a different feeling. I wasn't fond of it, but that is an opinion. I've heard they are very reliable. Seriously, if you are going to spend the money, there isn't a better option then Chris King. Nothing feels as smooth and the bearings are for life.

[springsproject]

I've been on an Onyx for the last two years. As others mentioned weight is definitely a thing, doesn't bother me too much but it's noticeable when I pick the bike up. I'm running single speed and I think the best benefit of the hub is the sweet, soft, creamy, fast engagement. It's especially nice in techy sections where you end up having to throw in a ratchet pedal stroke. The quietness is nice for getting you to that zen feeling of floating through the forest in harmony with Mother Earth. The one thing I didn't like was that to switch from an XD driver to a shimano freehub body required getting a whole new axle for something crazy like $120. All that said, I just got a new wheelset - switched form 27.5 to 29 - with Hope Pro 4. They're loud and don't have instant engagement but it doesn't really bother me. Loud hubs are a good way to let walkers know you're coming up behind them.

[meter-man]

Any more recent opinions on these Hubs? Considering putting some in a pair of WAOs.

The silence is the part that’s most attractive to me.


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[plugboots]

Buy them.
I just rode this whole summer on one that I built during the winter. I love everything about it and any other hub that wears out I’m replacing them with an onyx vesper.

[BigHerm]

I've been running Vesper hubs for a couple years now. Love the silence, the engagement, and the speed. They roll fast.

I did have a problem 5 months in when the hub froze and became a fixie. Sent in the wheel and they replaced some guts.

Last month I sent the rear hub in for service before getting a new rim and they noticed a hairline crack on a spoke hole (32). Replaced the entire hubshell with my old guts and 2 out of 4 new bearings. Had it sent over to Berd for a build with Spank 359. New wheel rides nice.

Not a huge dude but I ride decently fast (downhill) on rocky terrain. The original hubshell had like 4 thousand miles on it on a hardtail, then 120 bike, now 170 bike. No park riding.

[bagtagley]

The silence is the part that’s most attractive to me.

Maybe also consider Project 321? Not completely silent but darn close and a good bit lighter. I’ve owned three of their rear hubs and have had zero issues.

[beaterdit]

On my third season on two sets of Onyx classics now. One set on my handrail, the other was on a 138mm bike, now on a 163mm bike. They’ve been totally bomber and the silence is sublime, so is the engagement. They still spin as fast as day one, zero drag.

Don’t feel like the weight or engagement really adversely affects my suspension but that’s a lot of variables and I’ve never ridden these bikes with anything else. Canfield claims the CBF has relatively low chain growth and pretty nuetral anti-squat/anti-rise.

I’ll never run another hub if I can help it, just love them. At the time my wheelbuilder still recommended the classic but in the future I will likely go with the Vesper to save a bit of weight, especially for a suspension bike. That looks like it will be distant future at this point.

Only negative thing I’ve ever heard personally is one friend had an early Vesper that was replaced due to slippage and then he reported a “softer” feeling engagement compared to his Classics. He described it almost like having a rubber band for a chain and he didn’t like it. Maybe the Vesper has more flex? Haven’t ridden them outside of a parking lot myself so can’t comment but haven’t heard anyone else complain about current gen Vespers.

[meter-man]

Maybe also consider Project 321? Not completely silent but darn close and a good bit lighter. I’ve owned three of their rear hubs and have had zero issues.

I looked at P321, but WAO doesn't build wheels with that hub, and P321's webpage says that they aren't producing gen 2 anymore and have not yet started producing gen 3.

I'm already leery of small parts manufacturers but I don't even see how to buy one of these hubs! https://project321.com/

Oh yeah, and apparently they are now part of a firearms trigger manufacturer or something. Yay?

[bagtagley]

Oh yeah, and apparently they are now part of a firearms trigger manufacturer or something. Yay?

That sucks. Maybe that's why they moved to Canada, like carbon offsets.

[meter-man]

On my third season on two sets of Onyx classics now. One set on my handrail, the other was on a 138mm bike, now on a 163mm bike. They’ve been totally bomber and the silence is sublime, so is the engagement. They still spin as fast as day one, zero drag.

Don’t feel like the weight or engagement really adversely affects my suspension but that’s a lot of variables and I’ve never ridden these bikes with anything else. Canfield claims the CBF has relatively low chain growth and pretty nuetral anti-squat/anti-rise.

I’ll never run another hub if I can help it, just love them. At the time my wheelbuilder still recommended the classic but in the future I will likely go with the Vesper to save a bit of weight, especially for a suspension bike. That looks like it will be distant future at this point.

Only negative thing I’ve ever heard personally is one friend had an early Vesper that was replaced due to slippage and then he reported a “softer” feeling engagement compared to his Classics. He described it almost like having a rubber band for a chain and he didn’t like it. Maybe the Vesper has more flex? Haven’t ridden them outside of a parking lot myself so can’t comment but haven’t heard anyone else complain about current gen Vespers.

Thanks for the other comments - follow-up question: the Onyx website suggests Vesper for riders weighing 180 or less and recommends that Classic for ebikes and other heavy stuff. Unclear to me what a 195 pound rider on a regular bike (Spire) should get. Half a Classic?

For future reference, NOBL publishes weights of hubs -- Hydras weigh 301g for Boost/microspline/6-bolt version, DT 350 (277g), Vesper (410g), Classic (458g). https://noblwheels.com/blog/actual-hub-weights/

[evasive_MT]

I’ve had my classic Onyx hubs since 2016 on two different bikes. I did replace the front hub in 2020 when I upgraded to a modern fork with boost spacing. They’ve held up well and I’m just as happy with them as I was to start. I love the silence.

[hball]

What's the collective say about these hubs. Maybe my search sucks but I cant find much. Mainly looking for first hand knowledge on function and durability of both the classic and Vesper. I can evaluate the weight and price.

I have several onyx classics. One singlespeed with just under a 1,000 miles, a suspension bike with a 2,500 miles and a bikepacking bike with almost 7,000 miles. Wife’s bikepacking bike has probably 5,000 miles. I’ve never had a missed beat or any problems. I just opened the higher mileage one this year and it was clean and minty fresh inside.

For smoothness and long term durability I would not hesitate, these are great hubs. Stick with the classic for sure, I’ve heard a few stories about vespers being a little light duty…

[frorider]

I looked at P321, but WAO doesn't build wheels with that hub, and P321's webpage says that they aren't producing gen 2 anymore and have not yet started producing gen 3.

I'm already leery of small parts manufacturers but I don't even see how to buy one of these hubs! https://project321.com/

Oh yeah, and apparently they are now part of a firearms trigger manufacturer or something. Yay?

You might have seen my posts here over the last 3 yrs about how project 321 are the new benchmark IME. They’re becoming pretty mainstream actually…. https://bikerumor.com/resistance-is-...-freehub-drag/

I’m seeing brick n mortar bike shops routinely stock them for higher end wheel builds.

All the hubsets I have were made in Bend OR. Since they moved to Canada, I’ve bought some different end caps recently but haven’t had to deal with the company otger than that.

[SJG]

This is relevant to the pedal kickback issue, many of you may find it intriguing.

https://www.ochain.bike/ochain-mtb-g...kback-solution

[GeorgiaSnow]

Love my vespers so far. I’m a bigger dude, 200-210 riding weight but right how they are in an lighter hard tail setup not doing anything too intense. Probably around 1000 miles with no issues.


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[Pinned]

If you buy these, upgrade the bearings or spend the money on whatever their upgrade is. The stock bearings are not long for this world in even moderately wet conditions. Onyx gave me a real hard time about replacement bearings after all of them seized up a couple months in - didn't think it was excellent service. I ended up buying them myself from Enduro so I could get nicer ones.

Hubs are fine otherwise. They did caution that part of the clutch setup is not anti-corrosion coated and not stainless, which I thought was odd, but haven't had any issue yet.

[meter-man]

Any more recent opinions on these Hubs? Considering putting some in a pair of WAOs.

The silence is the part that’s most attractive to me.

Trigger pulled - WAO Convergence with Onyx Vespers and CX-Ray spokes (@ 20% off). Psyched to give these a whirl!

[Tailwind]

That’ll be a sweet setup! Post thoughts on the hubs once you have them. I’m deeply curious.

Trigger pulled - WAO Convergence with Onxy Vespers and CX-Ray spokes (@ 20% off). Psyched to give these a whirl!

[plugboots]

Couple days ago I was riding a maybe mile long gradual downhill, pretty smooth, on Pine needles, just flying and all I could hear was the crunch of the Pine needles, and I thought oh I should record this so you guys could (not), hear it.