Scarpa F1 strap buckle mod — max ROM

[frorider]

When I first tried on a pair of F1’s, the fit and progressive flex were outstanding. But I was disappointed in the missed opportunity with the Velcro cuff strap/buckle...they could’ve easily shipped an L angle piece that enabled quick & full disconnection. So on yo-yo tours I’ve been living with the reduced ROM resulting from leaving Velcro strap alone and just opening the buckle. On longer or steeper uptracks I generally have to rip open the Velcro to get buckle entirely disconnected and full ROM.

Eventually I made a part to solve this issue. Now the strap is adjusted to a tight setting but with this quick disconnect I get full ROM and fast transitions.

[MegaStoke]

Are you using a Voile strap as your upper power strap?

[frorider]

Yup. Someone here recommended that. Works well. Plus you now have an extra strap for repairs etc.

[MegaStoke]

Interesting. I could see the progressive flex working well. What are you doing with it when going uphill?

[frorider]

Voile strap is left unbuckled. Two of the holes engage with the small plastic knobs that hold the stock Velcro upper strap, so the voile strap just sits inside the pants & doesn’t move around much.

[climberevan]

Fantastic innovation! The upcoming F1 - RS hybrid also seems to have stepped on its dick by using the same stupid F1 buckle instead of the awesome RS one. I have both, and I'm going to make some of your hooks, which will prob mean that I use the F1s more, since they do ski better than the RS.

[frorider]

I’ve been field testing this mod (while Sheltering in Place) and it is FKNA awesome. Allows me to transition from super snug to free & easy in 2 seconds. Cinching the voile strap first is the key. I kinda feel like I’ve reached AT boot nirvana finally. Not getting rid of my Mercurys and Maestrale RS’s but for most tours the F1-80 will be my jam.

[frorider]

Aluminum stock at many hardware stores (I used DIY in SLT). A drill and coping saw enabled the slot. The pop rivets aren’t absolutely necessary but make buckling up easier/faster.

I had some time to kill so made these rough protos with hand tools.

Would be awesome if Scarpa stamped these out of aluminum and included with the boots. If I worked at Scarpa I’d shape this piece more as a J hook...lower profile.

[natebob]

Nice mod! I seem to recall something similar to what you made coming stock on other brands' boots. The buckle I remember seeing was on a Tecnica, I think, and went a step further in being able to "quick release" the buckle without having to rip the velcro, hence needing to re-establish your preferred setting every time you get in and out of the boot. It was some kind of open slot arrangement, sorry no pics, and probably not explaining it well. I asked Scarpa why they continued with the F1 strap on next seasons' F1 LT, they said they were aware of the issue but there was some kind of patent thing going on with sourcing a longer throw buckle with a QR feature. I don't know about that, but a better strap and buckle would be nice. I have been lucky enough to spend a few days on the F1 LT, pretty nice boot.

[frorider]

went a step further in being able to "quick release" the buckle without having to rip the velcro,

Thought my OP was clear—the entire point of my mod was to enable full disconnect w/o touching the Velcro. Also notice the electrical tape that freezes the position of the Velcro.

I’ve seen this type of disconnectable buckle on various boots over the years. It’s a mystery to me why Scarpa didn’t include it on the F1.

[jhyatt]

Nice! I also have F80 and someone here recommended the red voile strap and it works awesome. The upper black velcro strap was so stupid. You have to totally undo it every time you start uphill. I removed it, but then it was a pain to get that buckle strap tight.
Um... can you make me acouple of those metal thingies? Pleez? I think you could bang out a bunch all at once? Or maybe someone here is a machinist?

[GeezerSteve]

Nice simple DIY mod. Well done.

That hardware store Al angle might be shit or might be 6063 or 6061 which should last indefinitely. Was it marked?

I think you could bang out a bunch all at once? Or maybe someone here is a machinist?

A vertical mill and metal bandsaw would make that a 2 minute project. If fro provides a drawing with dimensions and enough people sign up, I could make a batch for cost of materials and shipping.

[jhyatt]

That would be awesome! How many do you need to make it work out? Frorider can make a sketch please? Rough cost for materials and shipping? $20?
Here is a google sheet I made (my lame contribution) that you can edit if you have the link and add yourself so we can get a rough number.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Nice simple DIY mod. Well done.

That hardware store Al angle might be shit or might be 6063 or 6061 which should last indefinitely. Was it marked?

A vertical mill and metal bandsaw would make that a 2 minute project. If fro provides a drawing with dimensions and enough people sign up, I could make a batch for cost of materials and shipping.

[GeezerSteve]

I don't need no stinkin' spreadsheet. : ) Might be best for me to fab them without the rivet holes, which might be better positioned by inserting into the buckle and marking with a sharpie before drilling. End user can do that, then install rivets and grind or file them to proper length.

And maybe I'd ship a batch to you for distribution to the masses.

ETA: Re material, it'd likely be around $3 per pair. I would order the angle stock from Online Metals. I usually order will-call, then pick it up in Seattle back in the pre-Covid-19 days when I hit Seattle each week or so. That routine has changed.

[jhyatt]

I can deal with distribution

I don't need no stinkin' spreadsheet. : ) Might be best for me to fab them without the rivet holes, which might be better positioned by inserting into the buckle and marking with a sharpie before drilling. End user can do that, then install rivets and grind or file them to proper length.

And maybe I'd ship a batch to you for distribution to the masses.

ETA: Re material, it'd likely be around $3 per pair. I would order the angle stock from Online Metals. I usually order will-call, then pick it up in Seattle back in the pre-Covid-19 days when I hit Seattle each week or so. That routine has changed.

[riff]

Nice mod! I seem to recall something similar to what you made coming stock on other brands' boots. The buckle I remember seeing was on a Tecnica, I think, and went a step further in being able to "quick release" the buckle without having to rip the velcro, hence needing to re-establish your preferred setting every time you get in and out of the boot. It was some kind of open slot arrangement, sorry no pics, and probably not explaining it well. I asked Scarpa why they continued with the F1 strap on next seasons' F1 LT, they said they were aware of the issue but there was some kind of patent thing going on with sourcing a longer throw buckle with a QR feature. I don't know about that, but a better strap and buckle would be nice. I have been lucky enough to spend a few days on the F1 LT, pretty nice boot.

Natebob, can you give us a quick review on the F1LT? I’m really curious.
I’ve been in tlt6’s for 7 years, hoping to make a move to the F1 next year. ROM, skiing, flex, durability, etc? I was looking hard at Alien RS’s, but cord breakage problems seem worth waiting for the F1.
Any way to get hands on some earlier than next fall?


Also, I’d definitely go for a set of these quick releases if Steve makes em! Outstanding idea.




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[frorider]

Yeah I’ll post up a drawing with dimensions when I get a chance.

My angle stock was 6000 series as I recall. I’ve done enough field testing to conclude that the dimensions are dialed.

[natebob]

frorider, my bad, your post was clear about not having to rip the velcro. I was only half a cup of coffee into the morning.

[natebob]

Natebob, can you give us a quick review on the F1LT? I’m really curious.
I’ve been in tlt6’s for 7 years, hoping to make a move to the F1 next year. ROM, skiing, flex, durability, etc? I was looking hard at Alien RS’s, but cord breakage problems seem worth waiting for the F1.
Any way to get hands on some earlier than next fall?


Also, I’d definitely go for a set of these quick releases if Steve makes em! Outstanding idea.




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Sure. I measure 28.5, medium volume and instep, C+ width, prominent inner ankle bones. For years my go to boot has been size 29 orange Maestrale, including the current version. These have fit well with a liner mold, some float padding for ankles, no shell work. Here's my take on the LT compared to a few other boots:

Compared to TLT 6:
It's been a while since I had a pr. of these, so take this with a grain of salt.
Width is similar. I punched my TLT 6 for 5th met but could have gotten away without it. Width on LT feels similar because I might want to punch it but could get away with not. Toe box profile is narrower.
Instep is a bit higher.
Ankle is roomier.
Heel is roomier.
Stiffer than TLT 6.
Liner is at least as good as stock 6 liner.
ROM/friction of cuff is much better.

Compared to F1:
Width is narrower, toe box profile is narrower.
Instep is slightly higher.
Ankle is much roomier.
Heel is much roomier.
Cuff/liner height is similar.
Stiffer, has some progressive flex and some deformation of the lower.
Liner seems comparable to F1, reinforced in key spots. Not super thin and minimal like some liners in this class.
Forward lean is 9, 11, 13 degrees +/- 2 with a spoiler, so much more upright than F1.
Boot board angle feels flatter than F1.
ROM is incredible, no friction or resistance from cuff pivots.
Gaiter and fabric bits seem to be made of durable materials and attached well to the lower.

Compared to current Maestrale:
Definitely narrower.
Slightly higher instep.
Ankle is roomier.
Heel is roomier.
Cuff height is higher than Maestrale without spoiler. Liner height is the same.
Stiffness is similar to orange Maestrale, a little less progressive feel.
Forward lean can be made comparable to Maestrale in more upright position.
Better ROM and cuff freedom.

Compared to Alien RS:
I'm going to say the lower fit is very similar, but feels a bit wider. I think this is because they added a boot board, raising the foot into the wider part of the shell. Can't explain it, but I found the RS pretty narrow, but the LT is surprisingly doable for me. Still might punch for 5th met, but def. wider feel than RS.
Ankle is roomier than RS.
Heel feels a bit roomier, but should be pretty similar if the lower is the same. Maybe feels looser because of ankle being roomier.
Cuff/liner height similar to RS.
Stiffness feels similar to, maybe a little less brick wall feel.
Liner seems a bit thicker, more substantial.
Forward lean- there is some crossover, but overall LT is more forward.
ROM/friction is like RS.
Gaiter and fabric bits are the same.

Hope that helps!

[riff]

Amazing level of detail nate, thanks!
I’m going to ponder all if that, maybe it’s not as slam dunk as i thought, my heel and ankle are pretty low volume. Sounds roomy everywhere but the forefoot where i need it. Excellent information!


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[North]

X2 thanks for that detailed info. Where is Scarpa finding all these deformed kankles to model their scaffo lasts after? I had to add a ludicrous amount of foam to get heel hold out of the RS, and I have the boniest ankles/heels around. Can't imagine more room in that area.

[natebob]

Amazing level of detail nate, thanks!
I’m going to ponder all if that, maybe it’s not as slam dunk as i thought, my heel and ankle are pretty low volume. Sounds roomy everywhere but the forefoot where i need it. Excellent information!


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Yeah, well as always, take it for what it's worth. Hopefully someone else here can chime in, I know there are others that demoed this boot. But yes, my overall impression of volume/width was, starting from the toe moving backward, to be low volume/narrow trending to high volume. The fit above the ankle for me is snug, that combined with the tall cuff and liner help the boot ski well. If you are looking for low volume rear foot and more forefoot room than TLT 6, I don't think the LT is it. Could maybe be punched enough to make you happy though.

I skied the LT on Voile Objective 178, Voile Ultra Vector 177, Voile Hyper Charger 177. Like a lot of boots in this class, I think it can ski above it's pay grade, and drive bigger skis. Depends on conditions and expectations.

[frorider]

Ok can’t get my CAD app working so here’s a pic with dimensions in mm. The alu stock is 1/8” thick, ie 3.2 mm. The clearance between the baseplate and the lower portion of the rivet needs to be at least 6 mm.

(Pic is of the first mule. Next one looked much nicer.)

[GeezerSteve]

Got it. I will order some angle stock and advise.

ETA: What is the thickness of that angle stock? 1/8"?

ETA: What is the width of the slot?

[frorider]

X2 thanks for that detailed info. Where is Scarpa finding all these deformed kankles to model their scaffo lasts after? I had to add a ludicrous amount of foam to get heel hold out of the RS, and I have the boniest ankles/heels around. Can't imagine more room in that area.

Agree on the RS. I have normal sized heel and ankle, but RS reqd significant padding. Meanwhile the F1 is perfect with zero pads around heel or shell mods for my average width forefoot. So kinda bummed to hear this F1LT info above.