Official ATK Binding Thread

[CaliBrit]

Mounted my new Wayback 88s with Trofeo+ 10s. Absolutely love the binding. Now that I'm in 2-buckle boots, I vastly prefer the race-style heel for simplicity. Also 100% onboard the leash train now.

Honestly, kind of regretting the Freeraiders on my other skis now. I'll probably just start using cheap Trofeo+s for everything going forward. Maybe check out the Ski Trab Vario down the line.

Do you feel any difference in vibration damping between the Trofeo style toe and the freeraider toe?

Anyone else have input on this?

[Benneke10]

There is a review on Evo for the Helio 200 with the toe piece catastrophically failing, has anyone seen this kind of failure before?

https://www.evo.com/outlet/alpine-to...gaAtPSEALw_wcB

[CaliBrit]

I don’t think I’d seen it noted before but I saw a video of the evo heel elastic response set up with 0 heel gap. Is that accurate?

[Westcoaster]

There is a review on Evo for the Helio 200 with the toe piece catastrophically failing, has anyone seen this kind of failure before?

https://www.evo.com/outlet/alpine-to...gaAtPSEALw_wcB

Everything has a failure mode. I bet.this guy wrenched on the toes while they had some ice in the toe fittings on the boot or something. It is not a load bearing structure, user error.

[gman321]

Do you feel any difference in vibration damping between the Trofeo style toe and the freeraider toe?

Anyone else have input on this?

I ski in WA. Conditions are usually either powder, in which case I won't feel a difference, or utter garbage, in which case it's gonna suck regardless of which toe I have.

That's probably why I haven't noticed a difference.

[stuntmanbo]

Could use some help with people who actually know what they're talking about. I'm planning on getting some ATK bindings but seems like there is a lot of choice. The bindings would be for Armada Whitewalker 121s, my usual DIN is 8-10. Someone suggested the freeraider 14 for that but then I saw the raider 11 evo has a new toe release system that I think my knees could potentially appreciate. Skis would be used mostly for big powder skiing.

Don’t buy a binding on the first year, and yes, it’s not really a new system but just an adjustment of the toe spring strength, I mean the lateral release is still at the heel.
I’d say go with the FR14, or R12 plus freeride spacer if you want to be in the middle of the range.

[cydwhit]

I ski in WA. Conditions are usually either powder, in which case I won't feel a difference, or utter garbage, in which case it's gonna suck regardless of which toe I have.

That's probably why I haven't noticed a difference.

I live in the Tetons, not Washington, but I pretty much agree with this. In shitty conditions, they feel equally shitty, to me at least. In good conditions, they feel equally good. With a homemade freeride spacer installed, I feel like I'm getting 80-90% of the "feels good and not harsh or suspended" quality with the Trofeos that I'm used to with Freeraiders.

[meter-man]

Query for the collective: are ATK FreeRaider 14s (actually, Moment Voyager 14s) inordinately predisposed to pre-release at the toe?

I have owned Plum Guides, Kingpins, Tectons, and Vipecs, and never had a prerelease. I've now had two really bad prereleases with the Voyager 14. The first was a slide for life situation - I got lucky and lived. The second was much more pedestrian (today), but I still bunged up my shoulder and jaw. The first I was chattering on hardpack (refrozen corn) at 15-20 mph. The second I was turning on some wintry (not firm) snow on 30ish degree pitch and POOF no more ski attached.

After my first prerelease, I only skied them downhill with the toe locked, even in non-YFYD terrain. I tried them today inbounds to feel out some punches in my boots, and had the audacity to ski down in downhill mode. Big mistake I guess. The bindings were inspected by the Moment folks after the first incident.

I checked the spacing at the heel - exactly 4 mm (spec). RV is turned up to 14 in both the vertical and lateral plane because I still am leery of the bindings. Spacers on the freeride stomp pad thing fit perfectly. Ski is a 2022 4FRNT Hoji - stiff underfoot. Third run of the day - the first two were on much steeper and more consequential terrain (KT at Squawlisades Tahoe).

Yeah yeah, I know tech bindings can be prone to prerelease, but this seems like something is wrong with the design.

[CaliBrit]

Query for the collective: are ATK FreeRaider 14s (actually, Moment Voyager 14s) inordinately predisposed to pre-release at the toe?

I have owned Plum Guides, Kingpins, Tectons, and Vipecs, and never had a prerelease. I've now had two really bad prereleases with the Voyager 14. The first was a slide for life situation - I got lucky and lived. The second was much more pedestrian (today), but I still bunged up my shoulder and jaw. The first I was chattering on hardpack (refrozen corn) at 15-20 mph. The second I was turning on some wintry (not firm) snow on 30ish degree pitch and POOF no more ski attached.

After my first prerelease, I only skied them downhill with the toe locked, even in non-YFYD terrain. I tried them today inbounds to feel out some punches in my boots, and had the audacity to ski down in downhill mode. Big mistake I guess. The bindings were inspected by the Moment folks after the first incident.

I checked the spacing at the heel - exactly 4 mm (spec). RV is turned up to 14 in both the vertical and lateral plane because I still am leery of the bindings. Spacers on the freeride stomp pad thing fit perfectly. Ski is a 2022 4FRNT Hoji - stiff underfoot. Third run of the day - the first two were on much steeper and more consequential terrain (KT at Squawlisades Tahoe).

Yeah yeah, I know tech bindings can be prone to prerelease, but this seems like something is wrong with the design.

Have been flawless for me. Pushed hard but no drops.

[Beder]

Query for the collective: are ATK FreeRaider 14s (actually, Moment Voyager 14s) inordinately predisposed to pre-release at the toe?

I have owned Plum Guides, Kingpins, Tectons, and Vipecs, and never had a prerelease. I've now had two really bad prereleases with the Voyager 14. The first was a slide for life situation - I got lucky and lived. The second was much more pedestrian (today), but I still bunged up my shoulder and jaw. The first I was chattering on hardpack (refrozen corn) at 15-20 mph. The second I was turning on some wintry (not firm) snow on 30ish degree pitch and POOF no more ski attached.

After my first prerelease, I only skied them downhill with the toe locked, even in non-YFYD terrain. I tried them today inbounds to feel out some punches in my boots, and had the audacity to ski down in downhill mode. Big mistake I guess. The bindings were inspected by the Moment folks after the first incident.

I checked the spacing at the heel - exactly 4 mm (spec). RV is turned up to 14 in both the vertical and lateral plane because I still am leery of the bindings. Spacers on the freeride stomp pad thing fit perfectly. Ski is a 2022 4FRNT Hoji - stiff underfoot. Third run of the day - the first two were on much steeper and more consequential terrain (KT at Squawlisades Tahoe).

Yeah yeah, I know tech bindings can be prone to prerelease, but this seems like something is wrong with the design.

I have a Voyager 12 on a Salomon QST 98 that I ski inbounds sometimes. I ski it hard at RV 10 and I have had it release just once, when I buried a tip. No idea what could be happening with yours.

edit...what about your boot?

[Westcoaster]

Query for the collective: are ATK FreeRaider 14s (actually, Moment Voyager 14s) inordinately predisposed to pre-release at the toe?

I have owned Plum Guides, Kingpins, Tectons, and Vipecs, and never had a prerelease. I've now had two really bad prereleases with the Voyager 14. The first was a slide for life situation - I got lucky and lived. The second was much more pedestrian (today), but I still bunged up my shoulder and jaw. The first I was chattering on hardpack (refrozen corn) at 15-20 mph. The second I was turning on some wintry (not firm) snow on 30ish degree pitch and POOF no more ski attached.

After my first prerelease, I only skied them downhill with the toe locked, even in non-YFYD terrain. I tried them today inbounds to feel out some punches in my boots, and had the audacity to ski down in downhill mode. Big mistake I guess. The bindings were inspected by the Moment folks after the first incident.

I checked the spacing at the heel - exactly 4 mm (spec). RV is turned up to 14 in both the vertical and lateral plane because I still am leery of the bindings. Spacers on the freeride stomp pad thing fit perfectly. Ski is a 2022 4FRNT Hoji - stiff underfoot. Third run of the day - the first two were on much steeper and more consequential terrain (KT at Squawlisades Tahoe).

Yeah yeah, I know tech bindings can be prone to prerelease, but this seems like something is wrong with the design.

Glad youre ok. It does seem like there have some issues with prerelease, what vintage are the fr14s? I have an early pair and have not had any issues, but anecdotally i could believe they are more sensitive to detritus in the pin fittings on boots.

Why were you skiing kt in pin bindings?

[meter-man]

Thanks peeps.

Have been flawless for me. Pushed hard but no drops.

Yeah, that's what I usually hear about ATKs - "flawless."

I have a Voyager 12 on a Salomon QST 98 that I ski inbounds sometimes. I ski it hard at RV 10 and I have had it release just once, when I buried a tip. No idea what could be happening with yours.

edit...what about your boot?

It could be my boot - I'm running them in Zero G Pro Tours, not exactly an exotic boot. I'll take another look and bring it to my local shop for a look see. However, I had Moment inspect the bindings (and boot/binding interface) back in 2021 when I had my first big prerelease. Nothing apparent.

Glad youre ok. It does seem like there have some issues with prerelease, what vintage are the fr14s? I have an early pair and have not had any issues, but anecdotally i could believe they are more sensitive to detritus in the pin fittings on boots.

Why were you skiing kt in pin bindings?

Thanks. Vintage: 20/21 Moment Voyager 14s, which I understand are identical to the current Voyagers except the change in release value (now, 12 and 16). https://www.momentskis.com/products/voyager-xvi

Assume you're asking why I would subject pin bindings to KT-level abuse, not why I'm skiing steep terrain! I was skiing the resort in pin bindings (something I always tell people NOT to do) to test out some punches in my boots. Trust me, I don't normally do this.

Just frustrated: never had any prereleases with other tech bindings. I bet I would have had a lot more prereleases if I wasn't locking my toe in most situations.

[Benneke10]

My buddy is a very aggressive skier but not a big guy, maybe 160lbs, and he uses Freeraiders on Ravens. He has had several pre releases and almost always skis locked out at this point. He is hard on bindings though, he pre-releases on any tech binding he uses but he said the Freeraiders felt more prone to pre release than the Superlite 175 R12 and Salomon MTN he has on other skis. I'm just saying this so Meter-Man can feel seen, they are certainly not perfect bindings for all skiers in all conditions like some might say..

[John_B]

Meter I know it's what everyone says about tech bindings prereleases but are you sure there was no snow in your pin sockets and under the toepiece? I've got no experience with those ATKs but it sure does sound abnormal.

Edit: I'd sure have a tough time trusting them after the two prereleases that you've had.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

I’ve had two prereleases on my ‘19/‘20 FR14’s. One was 99% due to snow in the pins. The other, I was skiing deep pow fairly fast, hit a little unexpected ice mid turn and threw a ski. Think I blame that on the binding. I’ve also done a lot of dumb, high speed stuff on them with no issues, but I only use them on pow skis so they don’t see hardpack.

My take on the FR14/16 is that they’re beautifully made and, I think, more bomber than a lot of tech bindings. I’ll likely ski my pair for years and years. But would I buy them again? Nah. An MTN with expert springs is just as good for a few hundred less dollars (as long as you’re ok fixing the heel play they can develop).

[Westcoaster]

Thanks peeps.



Yeah, that's what I usually hear about ATKs - "flawless."



It could be my boot - I'm running them in Zero G Pro Tours, not exactly an exotic boot. I'll take another look and bring it to my local shop for a look see. However, I had Moment inspect the bindings (and boot/binding interface) back in 2021 when I had my first big prerelease. Nothing apparent.



Thanks. Vintage: 20/21 Moment Voyager 14s, which I understand are identical to the current Voyagers except the change in release value (now, 12 and 16). https://www.momentskis.com/products/voyager-xvi

Assume you're asking why I would subject pin bindings to KT-level abuse, not why I'm skiing steep terrain! I was skiing the resort in pin bindings (something I always tell people NOT to do) to test out some punches in my boots. Trust me, I don't normally do this.

Just frustrated: never had any prereleases with other tech bindings. I bet I would have had a lot more prereleases if I wasn't locking my toe in most situations.

Yeah, there was some rumor they upped the toe spring force after the first year of production, but atk denied this.

I think it's possible the nature of the toe spring arrangement is more susceptible to friction from dirt/grime, in that the spring force is effected through a wedge, not directly. A bit of oil or silicone grease on the toe center maybe?

[riff]

After a few scary prereleases on rough firm snow, I’ve decided that my ATK’s are only for skis under 100 mm. MTNs are absolutely more confidence inspiring. Btw, how DO you fix the heel play in MTNs?


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[kathleenturneroverdrive]

I think you just pull the heel from the ski and there’s a screw in the heel tower you can tighten. But that could be wrong. I have a little play in mine, but haven’t bothered fixing it as I don’t feel it when I’m skiing.

[ezgzy]

Query for the collective: are ATK FreeRaider 14s (actually, Moment Voyager 14s) inordinately predisposed to pre-release at the toe?

I have owned Plum Guides, Kingpins, Tectons, and Vipecs, and never had a prerelease. I've now had two really bad prereleases with the Voyager 14. The first was a slide for life situation - I got lucky and lived. The second was much more pedestrian (today), but I still bunged up my shoulder and jaw. The first I was chattering on hardpack (refrozen corn) at 15-20 mph. The second I was turning on some wintry (not firm) snow on 30ish degree pitch and POOF no more ski attached.

If I'm remembering right, the guide measured the highest force necessary to release the toe when Lou tested them. Or if not the highest, in the top few. How did you think the plum's ski compared to the raiders overall? I'd consider the summit or guide in the same general class as the raiders even though they're a little bit heavier and less flashy

[riff]

I think you just pull the heel from the ski and there’s a screw in the heel tower you can tighten. But that could be wrong. I have a little play in mine, but haven’t bothered fixing it as I don’t feel it when I’m skiing.

Unfortunately I have tried that, and the true problem is that movement develops in the rail interface for bsl adjustments. The bolt was tight on mine. I don’t think there’s a fix. Sorry for the thread drift….

And, I’ll be testing out a Plum Oazo toe soon on zero g 105’s, hoping it’s as stout as the Guide toe.

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[Tailwind]

Back to ATK commentary after this…. But…

Same issue with play on my MTN’s. I took them apart and concluded that the screw was tight. I think that’s one of several ways they can develop play. Mine has play in the tower itself and the track. Sadly I think they’re just ‘worn’ and there isn’t anything that can fix it outside of a new heel track and tower.

Unfortunately I have tried that, and the true problem is that movement develops in the rail interface for bsl adjustments. The bolt was tight on mine. I don’t think there’s a fix. Sorry for the thread drift….

And, I’ll be testing out a Plum Oazo toe soon on zero g 105’s, hoping it’s as stout as the Guide toe.

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[Westcoaster]

For what it's worth that new evo design appears to dispense with the fr14 toepiece style wedge. The adjustable toe release is also interesting.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

Haha welp, there goes my “the MTN is just as good as the FR14/16 for less money” theory. Bummer the heel play isn’t as easy to fix as I had thought

[stuntmanbo]

@Meter, did Moment check your setup with your boot ? If your boot is not 100% aligned with the binding, I mean, if the heel of the boot has like 2mm of misalignment with the heel of the binding, that can cause prereleases.

One trick for those who’ve got issues is, after stepping in, to lock and then unlock the toe, before skiing. Sometimes it helps to engage the toe just a little more but can make a difference.

Reg toe spring strength, it’s not a rumor, I’ve got 2 pairs of 2020 R12 and one of 2021, the 2021 one has definitely a stronger spring at the toe.

[MrLarsen]

The mounting pattern is as the regular Raider and Freeraider 16/14 models (but not the C-Raider), ie using the ATK jig is P3-P3-H1-H1 for the toes and for the heels it's H-H-H-H.

I've not ordered any Evo 11's and the Evo 15 production has been delayed so I haven't handled either of them but I presume they'll be the same as above.

I can confirm, after e-mailing ATK, that the mounting pattern for the Evo 15 is the same as FR14/16.