Official ATK Binding Thread

[ey_allen]

FWIW, I'm planning the same setup as you, brake-less CR12s on wide boards for powder touring. Think the wider footprint will be great for driving bigger skis. Plus, I calculate CR12s ex brakes to be about 260g per binding (w/o freeride spacer, 290g with it) so not a million miles away from the sub-200g category.

And don't worry about ATK's million item lineup, they are notorious for this haha. Just look at all the toe shims and freeride spacers they have now (on top of past models and variations)...

Glad to hear I'm not too crazy at least. I think this is the sweet spot for me on the powder skis pulling the occasional double duty.

[Karl_H]

How well do the ATK “Snowpack proof toe pieces” perform, in practice? Are there still situations where you can build up enough snow and ice under the toe piece to affect the retention / release?

[Jason4]

For what its worth Skimo.co has the hole measurements here: https://skimo.co/tech-binding-hole-patterns

It seems like the C-Raider and Raider have shared the same pattern for past versions so hopefully that is true for the 2024 version as well.

I can confirm that a Raider I bought a year ago matches a Raider Evo mounting pattern that I bought two months ago.

[kid-kapow]

Lateral or vertical prerelease? If its lateral, the elasticity of the vario2 toes might be beyond the return-home range of the r12 heels. I would imagine a carving prerelease to be lateral, unless youre super frontseat in the boots...

lateral.

Heel pin alignment can cause that release issue. Really any tech binding at the correct release setting should hold you in on hard carves so long as it isn't really chattery hardpack, so seems sketchy

Heel pin alignment is not the issue. The rear pins are bang center and the vario and atk toes are the same height.

The vario.2 7-9 heel has a fair bit more resistance to twisting than the R12 at 8 though, so prob an increase in rv is all that is needed.

This is my worry about running frankenbindings with Trab toes

There was a lot of discussion about Trab toes vs [insert your heel] early last year in either this thread or the 300g bindings thread. Lot of heel toe physics being dropped IRC.

yeah, I remember reading most of that discurse. I think a slight bump in rv out back should make for a balanced setup.

I do not think the issue is the toe (even if a stronger clamping ATK toe might prevent some of the movement out back), more that my way of turning by pressuring the center of the ski together with high edge angles, hard snow and potentially too low a RV value to match the toe's characteristics for a balanced system necessitates some slight tweaks for optimal performance.

Yeah, as much as i want to play around, this is why i wont do it. tech bindings are already sketchy, why make them sketchier?

hehe, true - marginal gains is where it is at.

The magic of the Trab Vario is not just the elasticity of the toe, its that the heel can be rotated much further than pretty much any other tech binding and still return to center, and the combination skis very well. There are other heelpieces that perform similarly, but most are heavier. I think the Dynafit Superlite 150 is the only other light heelpiece that performs close. Shame that the Superlite 150 toe is crap.

I am pretty sure that this setup is a few tweaks from performing as intended. I guess that I should use a torque wrench to match the lateral release of the R12 heels to match the 7-9 vario.2 heels - or approximately, time will tell.

Thanks for the thoughts all.

On to something completely different: is it still possible to order the ATK jig? I figured I might as well try to get a hold of one - I do not see me using another brand tech binding any time soon.

[Pins and Skins]

KK, I posted this a few days ago given the 20% discount, not sure if they would deliver to Norway though :/

https://gear.com/products/atk-m06-mounting-jig

[doebedoe]

KK -- if budget is an issue, for personal use MottNs 3D printed/t-slot jig is ~$100 if he prints it for you shipped. Nice piece of kit.

[Westcoaster]

lateral.



Heel pin alignment is not the issue. The rear pins are bang center and the vario and atk toes are the same height.

The vario.2 7-9 heel has a fair bit more resistance to twisting than the R12 at 8 though, so prob an increase in rv is all that is needed.






yeah, I remember reading most of that discurse. I think a slight bump in rv out back should make for a balanced setup.

I do not think the issue is the toe (even if a stronger clamping ATK toe might prevent some of the movement out back), more that my way of turning by pressuring the center of the ski together with high edge angles, hard snow and potentially too low a RV value to match the toe's characteristics for a balanced system necessitates some slight tweaks for optimal performance.



hehe, true - marginal gains is where it is at.



I am pretty sure that this setup is a few tweaks from performing as intended. I guess that I should use a torque wrench to match the lateral release of the R12 heels to match the 7-9 vario.2 heels - or approximately, time will tell.

Thanks for the thoughts all.

On to something completely different: is it still possible to order the ATK jig? I figured I might as well try to get a hold of one - I do not see me using another brand tech binding any time soon.

If youre in the bay/tahoe i have an atk jig.

[kid-kapow]

KK, I posted this a few days ago given the 20% discount, not sure if they would deliver to Norway though :/

https://gear.com/products/atk-m06-mounting-jig

thanks - no shipping across le pondero though. I will send the local ATK guy an email and see what is possible through him.

KK -- if budget is an issue, for personal use MottNs 3D printed/t-slot jig is ~$100 if he prints it for you shipped. Nice piece of kit.

thanks for the tip!

If youre in the bay/tahoe i have an atk jig.

thanks for the offer! I am based in Norway though

[GravityDT]

Anyone have a copy or link for the actual TECH/Shop manual for the FR 15s? Curious on the toe piece adjustments and havent found any info online as to the process etc.... I know there is a screw on front and rear of the toe piece but that is about it. TIA

[timmaio]

How well do the ATK “Snowpack proof toe pieces” perform, in practice? Are there still situations where you can build up enough snow and ice under the toe piece to affect the retention / release?

IDK about those particular toes, but I switched the lightweight setup from the SL World Cup to the Revolution hoping it would prevent icing/snow pack issues and after a long mellow tour in dry cold powder conditions with only one transition(never took the skis off) I found that they had considerable resistance when taking them off at the end. I had to use my ski pole, I could not open them by hand.
So that design may not work as well as hoped. I still prefer my Trab toes when concerned about snow pack/icing under the toe.

[Westcoaster]

IDK about those particular toes, but I switched the lightweight setup from the SL World Cup to the Revolution hoping it would prevent icing/snow pack issues and after a long mellow tour in dry cold powder conditions with only one transition(never took the skis off) I found that they had considerable resistance when taking them off at the end. I had to use my ski pole, I could not open them by hand.
So that design may not work as well as hoped. I still prefer my Trab toes when concerned about snow pack/icing under the toe.

Hmm I have had no issues with raider toe icing. How do you like those revo wc? Always wondered how decently those skied.

[nate s]

I'm trying to get alpine and touring set ups close to matching for fwd lean, delta, etc. Have the boots figured out, now working on the bindings. Currently have FR15 and FR16 and working on getting all my touring skis inserted for easy experimentation and swapping.

Any source for a taller toe shim for FR15 evo? I'll hack up my own if not but was hoping to find a more factory solution.

Also wondering if anyone is running FR15 heels brakeless?

Thinking about running my FR15 toes with ~10mm shim and FR16 heels which I already run brakeless and also have a slightly lower pin height. The FR15 toes are ~2mm taller pin height so with a 10mm shim I should be close to zero delta that I'm going for.

[summit]

My Crest brakes, one of them will absolutely not lock. Nothing appears bent, worn, or out of place... ideas?

[Anachronist]

My Crest brakes, one of them will absolutely not lock. Nothing appears bent, worn, or out of place... ideas?

I think it doesn't take much bending on the wire that clicks into the button hook for the mechanism to fail. Mine did this with no significant bending/damage and I torqued on it a little bit to get the wire to move further down when you press the heel pad down. Has been fine for a while now after that.

[frorider]

FWIW, I'm planning the same setup as you, brake-less CR12s on wide boards for powder touring. Think the wider footprint will be great for driving bigger skis. Plus, I calculate CR12s ex brakes to be about 260g per binding (w/o freeride spacer, 290g with it) so not a million miles away from the sub-200g category.

And don't worry about ATK's million item lineup, they are notorious for this haha. Just look at all the toe shims and freeride spacers they have now (on top of past models and variations)...

I’m running C Raider 12s on my 115 mm pow boards, with a fused leash no brakes, and the Freeride spacer— so far so good. FWIW I’ve talked to large volume AT shoprats who also run this configuration.

After a million vert feet or so in Alpinists I’m comfortable saying the toes never ice up under the spring; their design is very open, and in combination with that elastomer pad underneath that seems to work. Meanwhile the c raider takes the opposite approach and cradles the springs so that theoretically snow can’t get when the toepiece wings are closed. I’m often in sticky pow, curious to see if I’ll get to a million vertical ft with no icing

[Karl_H]

Not my post, but I thought it was worth sharing this report of a broken C-Raider toe piece.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Backcountry...e_piece_broke/

[kevino]

A couple thoughts: despite the Reddit comments, it’s the metal toe wing that broke…who care about the carbon plate.

As far as anecdotal evidence, I skied in -16F with the same binding and had no problem. Also skied inbounds two days in single digit temps and everything worked.

[fleaches]

My Crest brakes, one of them will absolutely not lock. Nothing appears bent, worn, or out of place... ideas?

Had this happen to a pair I had also. If you completely remove the brakes (like take the wire part out of its mount) I suspect you'll see that they are bent a little. They really have to be perfect for the little hook to grab.

Luckily they are easy to bend back.

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[jski171]

I'm trying to get alpine and touring set ups close to matching for fwd lean, delta, etc. Have the boots figured out, now working on the bindings. Currently have FR15 and FR16 and working on getting all my touring skis inserted for easy experimentation and swapping.

Any source for a taller toe shim for FR15 evo? I'll hack up my own if not but was hoping to find a more factory solution.

Also wondering if anyone is running FR15 heels brakeless?

Thinking about running my FR15 toes with ~10mm shim and FR16 heels which I already run brakeless and also have a slightly lower pin height. The FR15 toes are ~2mm taller pin height so with a 10mm shim I should be close to zero delta that I'm going for.

I’m running brakeless FR15 with success. Just need a tiny T6 bit to take the brake arms off and then put the cap back on the binding with the OG T10 screws. End up ditching the spring and brake locking mech as well under the cap.

[Karl_H]

A couple thoughts: despite the Reddit comments, it’s the metal toe wing that broke…who care about the carbon plate.

As far as anecdotal evidence, I skied in -16F with the same binding and had no problem. Also skied inbounds two days in single digit temps and everything worked.

My interpretation was that the carbon composite broke around the pin, causing the toe wing to fall out. The metal parts seem to be missing, not broken.

[ey_allen]

Not my post, but I thought it was worth sharing this report of a broken C-Raider toe piece.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Backcountry...e_piece_broke/

I saw this thread right as I was mounting my c-raiders. Oh well.

My interpretation was that the carbon composite broke around the pin, causing the toe wing to fall out. The metal parts seem to be missing, not broken.

Yeah that was what it looked like to me as well. I've seen that happen to metal toe pieces so it doesn't seem to be specific to carbon. Its just a weak point of the design.

[adamweld]

Can someone explain to me why the newer ATK freeride bindings have a toe DIN? I was under the impression that all releases should be initiating at the heel, and I'm not sure why I'd want the toe to hang on any more than the minimum requirement to prevent chatter-driven pre release.

[Karl_H]

Can someone explain to me why the newer ATK freeride bindings have a toe DIN? I was under the impression that all releases should be initiating at the heel, and I'm not sure why I'd want the toe to hang on any more than the minimum requirement to prevent chatter-driven pre release.

ATK talks about it in a Blister podcast (starting at 45 min mark): https://blisterreview.com/podcasts/a...erences-ep-200

It seems like the general idea was to be to help prevent some unwanted toe pre-releases for bigger, more aggressive skiers and unwanted toe retention for lighter, less aggressive skiers operating at the low end of the release value range.

[ezgzy]

I have a brand new R01 plate i don’t need, 45 shipped takes it if anyone needs


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[mr_pretzel]

What is the correct setup for the height of the freeride spacer on the FR15, FR13?