Official ATK Binding Thread

[galibier_numero_un]

Apart from the convertible tech bindings (Shift, CAST, Marker Duke PT, and Pindung), the only tech bindings which release laterally at the TOE, are Vipecs and Tectons.

... Thom

[fleaches]

Hi All - mounting up a designated pair of touring skis this year (114 waist, 188 Length).
Coming from Hojis with Shifts.

I can't discount all the positive reviews on ATK bindings and just how light they are. I am 6 Ft, 92KG so weight isn't the number one requirement for me, but ATK sure do look great on paper. One thing I'm still trying to get my head around is lateral release on the toe. Originally, I was only considering a pair of Dynafit Rotation 14s, but all research indicates the ATKs ski vastly better with some level of elasticity.

Can someone help me understand the safety and knee safety particularly between the ATK FR14/FR16 and something like the Dynafit Rotation 14?

Vipecs and tectons are the only full on tech bindings that actually release at the toe, dynafits toe wiggle thing is more about keeping the bindings from releasing too easily I believe. I think there were maybe some rumors up thread of an atk with toe release in the future but it doesn't exist now.

The whole toe release being better thing is also about bone fractures not soft tissue damage, I'm not really sure what the latest is on whether toe/heel release is better for knees. Probably best to just not fall

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[Benneke10]

Dynafit rotations are TUV certified but the ATKs use the cam system that probably provide more consistent release at the heel. I wouldn’t expect a significant difference in reliability between the two. The Rotations have a steeper ramp angle but both bindings can easily be shimmed.

The ATK raider EVO bindings are supposed to be released in February-ish last I heard, and they claim
they will have adjustable tension in the toe piece.

[rockymtn]

Dynafit rotations are TUV certified but the ATKs use the cam system that probably provide more consistent release at the heel. I wouldn’t expect a significant difference in reliability between the two. The Rotations have a steeper ramp angle but both bindings can easily be shimmed.

The ATK raider EVO bindings are supposed to be released in February-ish last I heard, and they claim
they will have adjustable tension in the toe piece.

Thanks - appreciate info.
Indecision is killing me. Looks like some trade off between weight and elasticity, with not so much difference in actual "safety". That is at least until the Raider Evo is released.

[gregL]

Apart from the convertible tech bindings (Shift, CAST, Marker Duke PT, and Pindung), the only tech bindings which release laterally at the TOE, are Vipecs and Tectons.

... Thom

And Trab TR2/Titan Vario. Dynafit Rotation bindings still release laterally from the heel, they just have a smoother pivot point at the toe. In terms of knee safety, probably the best solution is something with upward release at the toe (KneeBinding, Tyrolia Protector) which doesn't exist yet in the touring world.

[kid-kapow]

dynafits toe wiggle thing is more about keeping the bindings from releasing too easily I believe.

Dynafit's marketing on Rotations / Radicals is pure rubbish. I guess "we finally released a binding that doesn't pre-releases at the mere sight of a bump" doesn't have the same allure.

The design has no more elasticity than any comparable tech toe, it just limits pre-releases. Just think about it - a binding that rotates around a given point has no increased elastity relative to that point. So what you get is a 600gr binding doing the job that any other brand 300-350gr binding does just as well. (The same goes for Kingpins, though the at least have a heel that brings something particular to the table).

yes, I am no Dynafit fan boy. But there is just no reason what so ever to buy Rotations. Like get ATKs or Tecton/Vipecs - done deal, best bindings in their respective segments by miles.

[Cocximus]

The trab titan vario does not release at the toe. It has lots of elasticity but it does not release. I just tried to double check. With a boot in the toe I can put lots of weight at the BOF and it does not release. Maybe at DIN 50+? The vipec is relatively easy to release by pressing at the BOF. The TR2 does, and I would love to score a cheap set since I have some compatible la sportivas.

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[Matt D]

The design has no more elasticity than any comparable tech toe, it just limits pre-releases. Just think about it - a binding that rotates around a given point has no increased elastity relative to that point. So what you get is a 600gr binding doing the job that any other brand 300-350gr binding does just as well. (The same goes for Kingpins, though the at least have a heel that brings something particular to the table).

I don't normally jump in because it doesn't make my life any easier... but in my opinion this statement is just wrong. The Toe piece is usually the limiting factor in the angle a boot can rotate before it releases from one of the 4 holding pins. The rotating toe allows the binding to use more of the the heel elasticity before the jaws open at the front. The Rotation/radical 2 has a higher impact energy absorption than the standard tech bindings.

I'm not saying which binding is safer, there are too many factors for that, but the Rotation system does increase energy absorption on a side release.

[plugboots]

You forgot the fact that the rotation makes it a pain in the ass to actually attach the thing to your boot. So that’s nice.

[gregL]

The trab titan vario does not release at the toe. It has lots of elasticity but it does not release. I just tried to double check. With a boot in the toe I can put lots of weight at the BOF and it does not release. Maybe at DIN 50+? The vipec is relatively easy to release by pressing at the BOF. The TR2 does, and I would love to score a cheap set since I have some compatible la sportivas.

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Thanks for the clarification. I've played with the TR2 demo and assumed the Titan Vario would be functionally the same . . .

[gregL]

You forgot the fact that the rotation makes it a pain in the ass to actually attach the thing to your boot. So that’s nice.

The new ones have a centering feature when the lever is down. Dynafit marches to their own drumbeat, sometimes they get it right, sometimes not so much.

[plugboots]

The new ones have a centering feature when the lever is down. Dynafit marches to their own drumbeat, sometimes they get it right, sometimes not so much.

Yeah I remember that, but I still have a pretty good memory of my buddy using every cuss word in the book on a changeover once.

[rockymtn]

Thanks for the info here.
Looks like some are ok with the Dynafit Rotation and some people have major issues with it.

Waiting to see if I can find a deal on some ATK otherwise I may look at the Rotation again.

[rod9301]

All the shops in my town in the french Pyrenees stopped drinking the dynafit rotation bindings because of usability issues

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[rod9301]

And not only stopped drinking but also stopped selling them

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[XXX-er]

I bought Verticals so I used to think Dynafit was an amazing company

then my Rad1's blew up, Dynafit introduced the Beast and the Khion

I realized Verts and the Vulcans were just lucky mistakes

[galibier_numero_un]

I bought Verticals so I used to think Dynafit was an amazing company

then my Rad1's blew up, Dynafit introduced the Beast and the Khion

I realized Verts and the Vulcans were just lucky mistakes

^^^ QFT ^^^

Dynafit's marketing on Rotations / Radicals is pure rubbish. I guess "we finally released a binding that doesn't pre-releases at the mere sight of a bump" doesn't have the same allure.

The design has no more elasticity than any comparable tech toe, it just limits pre-releases. Just think about it - a binding that rotates around a given point has no increased elastity relative to that point. So what you get is a 600gr binding doing the job that any other brand 300-350gr binding does just as well. (The same goes for Kingpins, though the at least have a heel that brings something particular to the table).

yes, I am no Dynafit fan boy. But there is just no reason what so ever to buy Rotations. Like get ATKs or Tecton/Vipecs - done deal, best bindings in their respective segments by miles.

That's pretty much the story. I don't see Rotations entering the room, let alone being in the conversation.

I don't normally jump in because it doesn't make my life any easier... but in my opinion this statement is just wrong. The Toe piece is usually the limiting factor in the angle a boot can rotate before it releases from one of the 4 holding pins. The rotating toe allows the binding to use more of the the heel elasticity before the jaws open at the front. The Rotation/radical 2 has a higher impact energy absorption than the standard tech bindings.

I'm not saying which binding is safer, there are too many factors for that, but the Rotation system does increase energy absorption on a side release.

In fairness to the design concept behind the Rotations (not that this would convince me to by them), they're arguing for retention by virtue of the pins not spreading as the boot heel rotates laterally. Taken on it's own, this makes sense, and it might (over time) reduce wear in the boot's toe fittings.

With tech heels, the lateral elasticity seems to be the limit, in the sense that the anecdotal comments point toward stiffer toe springs working just plain fine, with 300g less weight and a whole lot less complexity.

Stated another way, if tech heels had more lateral elasticity, then the heel could rotate enough (in a non-release situation) so that the toe wings spread to the point where even stiff jaws would pop out of the toe sockets.

... Thom

[XXX-er]

I forgot about the Hoji debacle

I duno who at Dynafit thot it would be smart to put a shark nose on a freeride boot but it meant the new boot didnt fit a whole shwack of bindings in the focus group the boot was designed for, I dunno if Hoji had a word with Dynafit or what ?

[Benneke10]

They were probably trying to encourage skiers to switch to tech toe bindings, and the more efficient pivot point on the speed nose is real

[XXX-er]

That ^^ may be but you don't try to make the consumer buy your product cuz its good for them, if you are a company trying to sell a boot to a group of people who have multiple pairs of skis AND don't forget the crampons that need to at least take a boot with an AT sole

the end loser will just take a pass even if they liked the boot fit

I think Shimano tried that same idea with rapid rise which failed twice

[ezgzy]

FYI, the 2023 raider evos are available now on telemark pyrnees, if anyone is interested in being an early adopter

[Benneke10]

They are on the site but you can’t purchase them yet

[Boissal]

Anyone have feedback on the Kuluar yet? Despite the atrociously butchered name (listen to the Blister podcast with the ATK guy about that, hilariously harebrained way to stay away from using the French word), it ticks several boxes for a buddy who has been dragging feet for 3 seasons to get new bindings. Can't find anything wrong with them on paper, if I weren't so content with my Superlites and completely adverse to the ATK hype I'd probably buy a pair just because...

[galibier_numero_un]

FYI, the 2023 raider evos are available now on telemark pyrnees, if anyone is interested in being an early adopter

Here's ATK's page on the 15 Evo. Not much on the toe (and they haven't published the manual yet):

https://www.atkbindings.com/en/produ...ee-touring-en/

Anyone have feedback on the Kuluar yet? ...

So, it's an Haute Route, with a heel base plate assembly that accommodates brakes?

... Thom

[Benneke10]

The Kuluar is a fine binding but hasn't made a huge splash because it lacks the two features that make ATK special these days: the integrated freeride spacer and the cam system heelpiece. Another consideration is the ~12mm of ramp but you can shim the toes pretty easily to lower that if you want.