Official ATK Binding Thread

[Jonathan S.]

Is BD dropping the race binding next year?(Helio 110)

I've always been puzzled why BD ever carried that model in the first place: all the BD ski models would be better mounted with any of the other Helio models rather than the Helio 110.
(Even I of all people mount ultralight yet non-race skis with the Helio 145/180 instead of the 110.)
I'm even a little puzzled why BD bothers with the 145, given the incredible added value of the 180 with adjustment plates, crampon clips, and the nicest leash I've ever used.

[Jonathan S.]

[...]If you send me any data to add:

• Measure the toe pin height with the boot clicked into the toe piece (changes the pin height slightly)
• Measure from the top sheet to the center of the pins (account for any shims you may have on your setup)
• For ramp measurements, measure to where the center of the heel pins would insert into the boot heel.

[...]

I confirmed the 145/180 data from Skimo Co, except that the adjustment plate is definitely 5.5mm (not 5.0 or 6.0), so the 180 ramp deltas should be adjusted accordingly (i.e., downward by a whopping 0.5mm) ... although oddly enough the riser deltas are correctly reported.
(For even more confusion -- although only to the extent of that same half a mm -- the Helio plate is correctly reported here at 5.5mm: https://skimo.co/pin-heights ... even though the identical Hagan plate is reported at only 5.0mm.)

[mall walker]

I will just say I am ecstatic with my ATK Trofeo Plus. Everything just works, super dialed. Heel flap can be lifted with the handle on my ski pole during transitions. The rotation to/from flat mode is not too difficult when it's very cold (ahem Plum). The toes are easy to step into. The toe lock lever locks easily and unlocks easily (via pole handle push). They don't release (I got the 10 RV and I don't want them to release unless I'm in an avalanche).

There's no killer feature separating these from Plum 150s or Trab Gara Titans or anything, but everything on them is perfect, including the price from T-P anyway. This is gonna be the only new binding I buy for a while I think.

[galibier_numero_un]

I confirmed the 145/180 data from Skimo Co, except that the adjustment plate is definitely 5.5mm (not 5.0 or 6.0), so the 180 ramp deltas should be adjusted accordingly (i.e., downward by a whopping 0.5mm) ... although oddly enough the riser deltas are correctly reported.
(For even more confusion -- although only to the extent of that same half a mm -- the Helio plate is correctly reported here at 5.5mm: https://skimo.co/pin-heights ... even though the identical Hagan plate is reported at only 5.0mm.)

Thanks Jonathan. I updated post #1 (and the downloadable spreadsheet). BTW, skimo's ramp delta for the SL World Cup (Helio 110) and Trofeo (Helio 145) look really wacky.

Of interest, I was on skimo's site, and in the Q&A section for the Helio 180, they mentioned that Hagan will be importing the R12 next year (naming it the Core Ultra). I added this name to the OEM column. It's unclear as to whether they'll continue importing the Raider 2.0 (the Core).

Assuming the lack of redundancy between BD and Hagan continues, I'm guessing that the Helio 350 will be the FR14 and not the R12 with an optional Freeride spacer.

... Thom

[smooth operator]

Is the crest brake removable (after mounting)? and does anybody know how much weight is saved by this?

[galibier_numero_un]

Is the crest brake removable (after mounting)? and does anybody know how much weight is saved by this?

My RT10 brake assembly looks like the removable FR14 assembly that @macon documents in post #40.

I suspect your Crest is the same.

I haven't tried removing mine yet, and I suspect you might need to fabricate a cover plate to control snow packing in there.

I'll bet we're looking at a net 40-50 gram savings, if you add back the weight of some light leashes, like the ATKs or Plums.

... Thom

[fleaches]

Is the crest brake removable (after mounting)? and does anybody know how much weight is saved by this?

Easy to remove, 3 torx screws each. Don't have a scale handy though.



Sent from my Pixel XL using TGR Forums mobile app

[sruffian]

#GalibierSavesLives

thom thanks for putting this thread together. I recently mounted ATK Crest 10's to a pair of 186 volkl bmt 94s. Loving them so far.

I can contribute a direct a/b test vs notable heavier pin binding - the dynafit radical 2.0 st10 (aka the rotation). Overall impressions - the ATK is like 350g lighter, which is why I mounted it up. I'm frankly surprised by how much of a difference this made - I either feel like I have rockets strapped to my feet on the skinner or just feel less tired than I should.

Skiing - the crest 10 is 90-95% as good as the radical 2 here. Of note - the difference there is only noticeable in what i'd call shit-fuck snow, and that's just the toe being mounted metal to ski rather than metal to PU to sk. I can't tell any difference in soft snow whatsoever. In fact, in soft snow they feel like they have better power transmission at the heel than plum guides or dynafit radical 1's. Maybe it's because they're new, but I feel much less of the ambiguity from the heel piece as I felt from the plum, rad 1, or speed turn. I am personally okay with giving up 5-10% percent in shitty conditions to lose 350g per foot on my skinny / summer ski set up. I have not released yet, though a few janky 'bench tests' did show that they released about when I had hoped they would.

I was big time on the fence about this brake setup originally. I actually really like it. Storing the brakes when you go from skiing to skinning is super straightforward. When you see the mechanism and touch the parts, it looks like it's going to be a super finicky mechanism, but it's not (so far). Just push the red button and pull the brakes up and it catches them. Compared to the godawful radical 2 where you gotta like push down on the brake/rear afd and THEN rotate the heel while keeping it compressed, it is a whole world simpler. Skinning to skiing transitions are pretty smooth too - kick ski up, rip first half of skin past brake, bush the button, turn the heel, then you can rip the rest of the skin and click in.

Riser heights - I find the high riser to be comparable with others, maybe slightly lower? I usually skin with the heel rotated into the flat / high riser position and that works for me.

Biggest surprise for me is that with the lighter set up, my strides are actually longer. Didn't think that was a thing / would happen.

[galibier_numero_un]

That's interesting about the damping on the Radical 2.0. I always wondered whether the swiveling toe contributed to smoothing out the feel - whether shock absorption from lateral displacement at the heel and rotating about the toe (Dynafit) was as effective as absorption at the toe (alpine binders and Vipec/Tecton).

At the identical weight as Radicals, I've been on Vipecs which are definitely a smooth ride (in comparison with "standard" tech binders).

Yeah, shit-fuck conditions. I ski that stuff fairly slowly in the BC, so the weight savings isn't that much of a trade-off.

... Thom

[Spyderjon]

..........Compared to the godawful radical 2 where you gotta like push down on the brake/rear afd and THEN rotate the heel while keeping it compressed, it is a whole world simpler......

sruffian, You'd find the Rad 2 heel a doddle to use if you actually operated it correctly!

You're operating the Rad 2 heel like it is a Rad 1. One of the big improvements of the Rad 2 heel over the Rad 1 is the automatic brake lock up. To go in to skinning mode you leave the brake levers down/deployed and then turn the upper heel unit 90 degrees clockwise. After that there are two methods of locking the brake levers up. Whilst holding the ski and after applying the skin you push the brake pad/AFD fully down with your hand and the brakes will lock up. However most people will want the brakes still deployed whilst stepping in the binding to stabilise the ski so after clicking in at the toe you simply stand on the brake pad/AFD (not stomp!) to fully compress it and the brake will lock up.

[sruffian]

ha i had no idea. made it probably 60-80 bc days on those, fuckin with the heel like a retard the whole time. still don't know what a doddle is - something you do at night when you're alone???

agreed on the trade-off Thom. Also really like how the crest heel transmits power. good stuff.

[Power_Sauce]

I've got three tours on the RT10 now, and am very impressed so far. Transitions and step in are super smooth, and the brake system works surprisingly well. Time will tell regarding durability, but at this point I'm cautiously optimistic.

[CaliBrit]

ha i had no idea. made it probably 60-80 bc days on those, fuckin with the heel like a retard the whole time. still don't know what a doddle is - something you do at night when you're alone???

agreed on the trade-off Thom. Also really like how the crest heel transmits power. good stuff.

7 doddle units of effort are equal to a faff. And 4 faffs are a hassle. You’ll get it.

[Spyderjon]

.......still don't know what a doddle is.......??

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...english/doddle = something that is very easy to do

[Jonathan S.]

I will just say I am ecstatic with my ATK Trofeo Plus. Everything just works, super dialed. [...]

There's no killer feature separating these from Plum 150s or Trab Gara Titans or anything, but everything on them is perfect [...]

Agreed, re my Helio 145/180. I think much of the credit goes to ATK refining the same basic binding over many (many) years, instead of bouncing around between different designs.

[Jonathan S.]

[...]Of interest, I was on skimo's site, and in the Q&A section for the Helio 180, they mentioned that Hagan will be importing the R12 next year (naming it the Core Ultra). I added this name to the OEM column. It's unclear as to whether they'll continue importing the Raider 2.0 (the Core).[...]

I asked Mike, and the binding is already available:
https://www.haganskimountaineering.c...cts/core-pro-1

[mall walker]

incidentally, being able to lift the race style flap with a ski pole handle (vs the plum 150 which I need to bend over and use my glove to lift, unless I have a whippet) seems to have extended the life of my gloves. again, a small thing, but it’s so nice.

[wilcox510]

I’ve been on Raider 12 2.0s for 3 years now, They are awesome. I really wish they’d put that awesome heel riser system on one of their super light bindings.

[f=ma]

I know there's many different avenues, but where are you guys in the US getting your ATK's bindings?

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

I used telemark pyreness. Had them at my doorstep in less than a week.

Also came to post I love my FR14. Such a good binding. I put some MTN's on a lighter setup and while I like them they're nowhere near as refined as the FR14.

[f=ma]

Cool, so if I want to purchase the new ATK C-Raider 12 for next season, my best bet is telemark pyreness?

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

If you're getting the ATK version there are probably a bunch of Euro sites to shop from. There weren't many deals on the FR14 when I was shopping so I just went with TP.

Bigger picture though - my thought is if Hagan/BD have a version of the ATK binding you want then from strictly a warranty POV it's better to buy it from them. But you can save money buying the ATK version from a euro website (the Trofeo is $499 from BD, but $230 from TP). Or you have to go to Europe to get the ATK bindings that Hagan/BD don't rebrand (like the FR14 this year).

[mall walker]

I used telemark pyreness. Had them at my doorstep in less than a week.

Also came to post I love my FR14. Such a good binding. I put some MTN's on a lighter setup and while I like them they're nowhere near as refined as the FR14.

ditto on t-p

[plugboots]

TP for me as well.

[galibier_numero_un]

T-P here as well, although I've bought from snowinn in the past.

... Thom