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02-16-2020, 08:19 PM #51Registered User
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02-16-2020, 08:22 PM #52
No.
I won’t cunt up this thread with the amount of data available about hypoxia and survival rates but do some googling on ncbi studies, the downtime someone can go without oxygen will surprise you.
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02-16-2020, 08:47 PM #53Jacket Cobbler
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www.freeridesystems.com
ski & ride jackets made in colorado
maggot discount code TGR20
ok we'll come up with a solution by then makers....
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02-16-2020, 08:52 PM #54Registered User
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Four minutes is absolutely a reasonable fatal hypoxia time in a person who is actively struggling (i.e. consuming their oxygen stores at a high rate), in pain, and terror. Four minutes is also a totally reasonable amount of time for a healthy sedate(d) adult to go without oxygen and have nothing bad happen.
Context is key. Especially since we know nothing about the victim's general health.
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02-16-2020, 08:58 PM #55
Pure hearsay, but a very important point.
https://www.reddit.com/r/vail/commen..._resort_today/
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02-16-2020, 09:20 PM #56
What is the proper amount of time before we have to wait for the bunny jokes to start
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02-16-2020, 09:32 PM #57Registered User
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02-16-2020, 09:38 PM #58
Terrible story. I worked as a liftie a long time ago. Without more details I don’t think I can add anything substantive to the discussion but I do remember the permanent staff and management spending a lot of time talking about just this kind of thing (they called them hangers). They expected it to happen as skiers got off the lift though, not while loading.
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02-16-2020, 09:58 PM #59
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02-16-2020, 10:03 PM #60
Until someone awkwardly leans down to unbuckle their boots and zaps their pacemaker.
That said it shouldn't be rocket surgery to make a secure latch that doesnt easily break.
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02-16-2020, 10:25 PM #61
C’mon man, nobody even knows how magnets really work, and you want to trust them on a chair lift?
I think not.
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02-16-2020, 10:29 PM #62
thanks for the correction. Obviously I wasn't reading carefully.
question is--was it truly asphyxia or carotid occlusion. You can tolerate not breathing for quite a while if your lungs are full of oxygenated air but if no blood is getting to your brain 4 minutes or less is the limit. BTW--worth mentioning that modern CPR does not include rescue breathing (unless they've recently changed it again) but this does not apply to arrest due to asphyxia--avy's, tree wells, etc.
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02-16-2020, 10:32 PM #63
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02-16-2020, 10:41 PM #64
...or you can just leave the seats down and deal with the snow on them, which is what I am most familiar with at our little hill called Mammoth.
Seen plenty of unobservent lifties in my time in the mountains. Bottomline is I dont count on an underpaid stoned lift to make my chair ride safe. But, most of us a reasonably experienced with shitty loading/unloading operations, and I don't expect the average gaper to be able to deal with it unassisted, hence the liability of Vail in this situation.
I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...iscariot
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02-16-2020, 11:01 PM #65Registered User
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02-16-2020, 11:35 PM #66
Shit even a place like snowbowl has at least 2 lifties running ops at the base, bumping chairs and being ready to hit the switch when needed. Chairs are flipped up at the end of the day too AFAIK. So you feel pretty safe riding the riblets.
Of course this is when chairs aren't falling off the cable or getting eaten by bullwheels, so it's a wash.
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02-16-2020, 11:45 PM #67
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02-17-2020, 12:16 AM #68
medic --
two issues :
asphyxia and Unsuccessful resuscitation --
I guarantee you
this guy does not care how long he Should have been able to survive without ( breathing / oxygen ) --
If / When his heart stopped , the chances of being able to resuscitate him became very, Very low...
I continue to be ,,, stunned by the success rates for CPR - but CPR does nothing to relieve an arrhythmia or an obstruction ( coronary artery obstruction ) --
arrhythmias are common and AEDs are miraculous for arrhythmias
( Timeliness is Everything ) ;
similarly,
CPR for professional rescuers still involves Rescue Breathing - but the critical element of CPR is effective compressions to circulate blood in a body with an ineffective pump --
given our ( 'urban' ) access to EMS And concern about communicable Disease ( hepatitis is no joke ) "lay" CPR currently focuses on Compressions --
Death is usually permanent
( I do have a friend who survived cardiac arrest.
He was his village's first revival... )
Life is fragile ;
try to not make fatal mistakes .
(tj)
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02-17-2020, 01:01 AM #69Banned
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02-17-2020, 01:13 AM #70
Chair could have been partially down and restricted by snow and ice so when he loaded the chair got pushed up at the same time.
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02-17-2020, 03:13 AM #71
absolutely incorrect. how is a 58 year old recreational skier supposed to know what is happening when he sees (if he sees) the chair coming at him with no seat? And more importantly, how is he as a guest supposed to be responsible for knowing what to do in the maybe one second after realizing vail failed to do their duty. Also the guest had no idea the level of danger he was facing.
powdork.com - new and improved, with 20% more dork.
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02-17-2020, 03:13 AM #72Registered User
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There has been several occasions where I had to flip my own seat down... I think it’s little easier for snowboarders because we are standing sideways and have a foot out compare to skiers facing forward with two skis and poles in one hand...
As I started loading chairs with my toddler, I have realized how valuable competent lifties are vs some kids. I was once that kid who worked as a lifty.
Condolences to the family and friends.
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02-17-2020, 03:33 AM #73
I too have flipped the seat down before it got to me. i'm guessing you are also more than a competent skier rather than some bloke from Jersey out at Vail (no offense and he was probably a perfectly good skier).
But damn, when doing so did you ever consider you were saving your life?
Vail has to get a failsafe for this. A laser that shoots through the bottom of the chair as a cutoff or some sort of passive protection. Fuck these days there should be an app that tells the lifty chair 167 is coming down with the seat up instead of telling the world i go through a lift linepowdork.com - new and improved, with 20% more dork.
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02-17-2020, 03:59 AM #74
A simple webbing cross mesh on the seat frame could easily let snow and wind pass through as well as preventing a customer's final dump while the seat bottom is flipped up.
Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat
This is like hanging yourself but the rope breaks. - DTM
Dude Listen to mtm. He's a marriage counselor at burning man. - subtle plague
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02-17-2020, 05:37 AM #75
idk Vail... but i almost got stuck to a lift a the Cantyons by my drawstring... if I didn't plant my skis on exit , and allow the lift to Rip it from my jacket... I would of been taken for a serious ride inverted till it broke free.
And...no lift worker at that one which grabbed my jacket . Its a slow mid mountain lift /unattended.
The seat flipping thing seems like ...idk /some heavy shit there emotionally for skiers n ridersski paintingshttp://michael-cuozzo.fineartamerica.com" horror has a face; you must make a friend of horror...horror and moral terror.. are your friends...if not, they are enemies to be feared...the horror"....col Kurtz
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