Katana 108 - the resurrerection

[gaijin]

Imma put my foot down. Any K108 (or today's M108) is a different ski from any HL ski.

It's two different classes of skis--
-- Those we buy on rebate because they're left-over because not many people bought them, or
-- Those we pre-order because we know we can't buy them again.

Nothing Volkl or Heritage Lab are even in the same league. Nobody is pre-ordering anything Volkl. That doesn't mean Volkl suck, it just means that we know they'll be discounted next year after there is leftover stock. I love Volkl.

Every HL ski is pre-ordered. It took a measly 2 years of rider-feedback to cement that business model. If you're buying any pre-drilled HL ski, it's only because the seller also has multiple pairs of the exact same ski. A used HL seller is nothing like a used Volkl seller.

The difference is huge, yo.

[kiril.gueorguiev@gmail.com]

Imma put my foot down. Any K108 (or today's M108) is a different ski from any HL ski.

It's two different classes of skis--
-- Those we buy on rebate because they're left-over because not many people bought them, or
-- Those we pre-order because we know we can't buy them again.

Nothing Volkl or Heritage Lab are even in the same league. Nobody is pre-ordering anything Volkl. That doesn't mean Volkl suck, it just means that we know they'll be discounted next year after there is leftover stock. I love Volkl.

Every HL ski is pre-ordered. It took a measly 2 years of rider-feedback to cement that business model. If you're buying any pre-drilled HL ski, it's only because the seller also has multiple pairs of the exact same ski. A used HL seller is nothing like a used Volkl seller.

The difference is huge, yo.

I kind of got the idea behind the HL Business model, with the athlete feedback and the preorder thing.
I trust you when you say those are two different leagues of skis. It is a very personal approach what Marshal has been able to build up around the brand. It is what you don't receive from the volkls nor from the atomics.
I am absolutely positive I would be willing to participate in the athlete feedback loop and I tried to put a deal together with Marshal's help. He is a great guy, no dought about it.
Like a wrote in another thread, I am not trying to cure cancer here. If I could find anyone who could have brought the skis over it was a done deal. The same thing I believe goes for any of you us based skiers?
I pointed out a good deal on the k108 as probably I thought that could help someone.

BR
Kiril

[gaijin]

I think I was just trying to point out demand.

I have nothing against Volkl. I've been on them since the G41. I'm all in. I'm a big fan. I just sold my M102 and kept my '93 OG Gotama because it's that rad.

I didn't like the OG M102's carbon tip. But, who cares? That ski has morphed into a carbon-stringer tip and is still coveted by comp skiers. People love it.

But... and that's a BIG but...

Nobody is pre-ordering Volkls. This is why you (all readers) should be paying attention to HL.

That's it. When anyone notices that a K108 is on sale for 399euro from 900... that should be a giant red flag. While that may have been a well-rounded ski for that group of skiers on the retail market, including me, it obviously didn't fit the niche skiers around the world that prefer a more refined product... many of whom are willing to actually spend retail for a ski that will last them 20 years.

Are we catching on?

For Volkl, Blizzard, Kastle, they're playing the "Race to the bottom" game. "Who can be be cheapest but best?"

HL is is playing the race to the top... but on a pre-order basis. "Who can be the best without a consideration to price?"

It's genius. Because it's taking all my money. And it's leaving little to no overhead for the producer.

I don't want a 300dollar ski that will last me 5 years. I do want an 800dollar ski that I'll have in my quiver for 20 years.

Volkl did this. The OG Gotama is still in my quiver. It's too bad the M102 is not, but the HL AM100 will be.

[kiril.gueorguiev@gmail.com]

I think I was just trying to point out demand.

I have nothing against Volkl. I've been on them since the G41. I'm all in. I'm a big fan. I just sold my M102 and kept my '93 OG Gotama because it's that rad.

I didn't like the OG M102's carbon tip. But, who cares? That ski has morphed into a carbon-stringer tip and is still coveted by comp skiers. People love it.

But... and that's a BIG but...

Nobody is pre-ordering Volkls. This is why you (all readers) should be paying attention to HL.

That's it. When anyone notices that a K108 is on sale for 399euro from 900... that should be a giant red flag. While that may have been a well-rounded ski for that group of skiers on the retail market, including me, it obviously didn't fit the niche skiers around the world that prefer a more refined product... many of whom are willing to actually spend retail for a ski that will last them 20 years.

Are we catching on?

For Volkl, Blizzard, Kastle, they're playing the "Race to the bottom" game. "Who can be be cheapest but best?"

HL is is playing the race to the top... but on a pre-order basis. "Who can be the best without a consideration to price?"

It's genius. Because it's taking all my money. And it's leaving little to no overhead for the producer.

I don't want a 300dollar ski that will last me 5 years. I do want an 800dollar ski that I'll have in my quiver for 20 years.

Volkl did this. The OG Gotama is still in my quiver. It's too bad the M102 is not, but the HL AM100 will be.

Thank you, gaijin,
We cool now?
BR
Kiril

[Bandit Man]

Don’t worry about gaijin. He’s just tired of that carbon-tip pinging from those Volkl M102’s. He’ll get his new HL skis in some Japow in a few months and he’ll be all good. [emoji6]

[LCC-ski]

Any opinions on how the 184 Katana compares to the Dynastar M Pro 108 192cm (or 182cm to keep it apples to apples on length). Anyone here ridden both? Trying to decide which one to go for this season

[forumskier]

I’m going to be comparing 191 Katana 108s to 192 MPro 108s this season. The Katanas were my “daily driver” last season, I will be buying another set probably next year. I haven’t tried the MPros yet. In hand the Katanas are noticeably stiffer. I cannot imagine the MPros being as good on firm snow as Katanas, nor as carvey as Katanas are. I can imagine the MPros being the better soft snow ski, and being better for jumping off things.

[LCC-ski]

I’m going to be comparing 191 Katana 108s to 192 MPro 108s this season. The Katanas were my “daily driver” last season, I will be buying another set probably next year. I haven’t tried the MPros yet. In hand the Katanas are noticeably stiffer. I cannot imagine the MPros being as good on firm snow as Katanas, nor as carvey as Katanas are. I can imagine the MPros being the better soft snow ski, and being better for jumping off things.

Appreciate it! The Katana’s sounds like the ticket. I’ll try to demo both but Katana sounds right up my alley for mixed conditions/crud

[Island Bay]

I’m going to be comparing 191 Katana 108s to 192 MPro 108s this season. The Katanas were my “daily driver” last season, I will be buying another set probably next year. I haven’t tried the MPros yet. In hand the Katanas are noticeably stiffer. I cannot imagine the MPros being as good on firm snow as Katanas, nor as carvey as Katanas are. I can imagine the MPros being the better soft snow ski, and being better for jumping off things.

Disclaimer: haven't skied the MPro 108, but the LP/MPro 105 is also deceptively soft flexing, yet VERY good on firm snow. They are just so damp and composed.

[Bandit Man]

Level Nine Sports has all sizes of the 2024 Katana 108 on sale for $467 right now. Even have 191’s for you maniacs.

[forumskier]

Disclaimer: haven't skied the MPro 108, but the LP/MPro 105 is also deceptively soft flexing, yet VERY good on firm snow. They are just so damp and composed.

The MPro 105s (I have another pair mounted up, love them) have more of a “race room” feel in hand. The MP108s are a bit softer overall, however they may actually have the more consistent flex pattern. Pro Riders have a noticeably stiffer camber section and feel stiffer through the less rockered tail, but then the tip gets as soft as the MP108s. MP108s feel pretty stiff underfoot and then very gradually get softer through the tips n tails. The most noticeable difference besides the racier feel of Pro Riders, is the MP108 has a modern swing weight feel. Feels like more of the mass is centered underfoot. Even though only 100g/ski difference, carrying the MP108s feel like tiptoeing in a garden whereas I immediately notice a lot more torque on my forearms moving the Pro Riders around.



After spending more time playing air guitar with all of them, the Katanas are not actually that much stiffer than MPro 108s. Katanas and Pro Riders could be seen as similar in terms of overall average bending hand flex, Katanas being the more consistent, but Pro Riders torsional stiffness is unmatched in hand or on snow. On snow, Pro Riders feel much stiffer and beefier and have a higher speed limit (also a lot more locked in).

Can’t always go by hand flex. The Declivity X 115 are 2500g, stiffer than all of them in hand, but I find on snow they ski softer than Katanas and especially Pro Riders. As they should, being a lot more pow specific. But the fact that they hand flex noticeably stiffer, then have a slight “jiggle” underfoot for me when I ski them hard, makes me think hand flexing means little.

Level Nine Sports has all sizes of the 2024 Katana 108 on sale for $467 right now. Even have 191’s for you maniacs.

Good find! I saw those on LevelNine a few times over the summer, but I coulda sworn they were a bit higher priced and said “limited stock, available for pickup at SLC locations” or something like that.

Wow, I should snag a pair. I didn’t want to buy anymore skis this year, but then I see Corbetts price on Reckoner KFs..and now these pop up. I’ll regret not getting those this time next year when I’m looking for new-in-plastic 191 Reds. I’ll be kicking myself in the ass harder if Volkl discontinues them after this pink year, which I have a feeling they will.

[Island Bay]

Good post, forumskier. Interesting comparisons.

I know this will sound completely retarded, but part of me wants to whack a 200gr binding on an MPro 108 for big lines in NZ backcountry.

[riff]

Good post, forumskier. Interesting comparisons.

I know this will sound completely retarded, but part of me wants to whack a 200gr binding on an MPro 108 for big lines in NZ backcountry.

I used to ski 18x full rocker double metal 2010ish Katanas with minimal touring bindings; one of my all time favorite combos honestly. Unstoppable skis, way fun.


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[forumskier]

Big red for 500 CAD; props to Bandit for the find…

http://volkl.com/en-ca/p/katana-108-2024

Damn I missed these!

[El Chupacabra]

I finally picked up a pair of 184 Katana 108s, used, drilled for my BSL - mounted bindings and they're unskiable. Crazy hooky, the slightest tip on edge and they want to turn sharply and immediately. Conditions are Tahoe firm right now - basically testing these on groomers, nothing else is skiable.

I checked bases for flatness (ski visions tool), set base edge bevel at 1* (they were slightly uneven), set side edges at 2* (pretty sure they were at 1*, and I do 2* in everything that isn't a pure hard groomer ski). Polished with diamond stones, de tuned tips and tails a little, and... No improvement, still hooky.

Detuned the tips and tails more aggressively. Mild improvement, still hooky. Dulled the entire edge somewhat. Still hooky.

Anyone else just not get along with this ski? It feels nothing like the original 191 Katana, which I loved. I was hoping for some of that magic feel, in a more groomer friendly package for travel ski use. This ski doesn't have it.

[Beder]

^^^ I wish I had an answer for you. My guess is the previous owner put a new tune on them. My pair skied beautifully right out of the wrapper, as did the Kendo and M102. When I beat hell out the M102 they came back from the shop all together different. Others here have had a similar experience. My only gripe about this line of Volkls is they seem extremely sensitive to tuning. Somebody here was looking into the solution but I don't know what came of it. Good luck

[rod9301]

Yeah, i love the k108, maybe not as much as the previous katanas, in powder only though.

Not hooky

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[kootenayskier]

I finally picked up a pair of 184 Katana 108s, used, drilled for my BSL - mounted bindings and they're unskiable. Crazy hooky, the slightest tip on edge and they want to turn sharply and immediately. Conditions are Tahoe firm right now - basically testing these on groomers, nothing else is skiable.

I checked bases for flatness (ski visions tool), set base edge bevel at 1* (they were slightly uneven), set side edges at 2* (pretty sure they were at 1*, and I do 2* in everything that isn't a pure hard groomer ski). Polished with diamond stones, de tuned tips and tails a little, and... No improvement, still hooky.

Detuned the tips and tails more aggressively. Mild improvement, still hooky. Dulled the entire edge somewhat. Still hooky.

Anyone else just not get along with this ski? It feels nothing like the original 191 Katana, which I loved. I was hoping for some of that magic feel, in a more groomer friendly package for travel ski use. This ski doesn't have it.

Hasn’t snowed here in a while, so I’ve been exclusively on my M6s, but I was finding my K108s well behaved in a variety of soft snow conditions, with only a tip and tail detune.

[MotoBeak]

I picked up a cheap pair of 184 demos to see what this ski is like and compare it to my 191 originals and Cochises. I must have gotten a cursed pair with a shitty tune also. I usually like the tunes at the shop these came from, but maybe they had some new guy practice tuning on these or something. I couldn't get them to carve at all on groomers. They're solid rocketships through crud and have that Volkl feel, but I couldn't figure them out at all. Moving the binding so I'm 1cm behind the line helped a lot, but still too much work. These will be headed to the ski swap next fall.

[rod9301]

I picked up a cheap pair of 184 demos to see what this ski is like and compare it to my 191 originals and Cochises. I must have gotten a cursed pair with a shitty tune also. I usually like the tunes at the shop these came from, but maybe they had some new guy practice tuning on these or something. I couldn't get them to carve at all on groomers. They're solid rocketships through crud and have that Volkl feel, but I couldn't figure them out at all. Moving the binding so I'm 1cm behind the line helped a lot, but still too much work. These will be headed to the ski swap next fall.

Mine carve really well on groomers. Check the base angle, maybe it's 2 instead of 1

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[kootenayskier]

I’ve been skiing with family that have the same BSL, and have been swapping run to run between my M6 Mantras, K108s and VWerks Katanas, all in 184cm. All great skis, but have been most surprised at the extent to which the K108s match the bumped-out all mountain and firm groomer versatility of my Mantras, as well as the soft snow tree ninja prowess of my Vwerks. These could easily serve as my only ski.

[Beder]

SOLD

I'm selling my pair of Katana 108. 184 cm, drilled for STH2 @ 305. Very nice condition, skied maybe 30 days. Edges touched up with diamond stones only, never tuned. Bases and top sheets minor cosmetic scrapes and scuffs only. $269 shipped USA ski only. PM me for pics via text or email.