Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[old goat]

If Americans wanted a good health care system all they have to do is vote for the politicians who will give it to them. Isn't that how it works in this country. But goddamn, isn't this pandemic divisive enough without throwing "socialized medicine" into the mix. If there are any on the right who don't think covid is hoax that would convince them that it is.

[SumJongGuy]

If they were wearing masks, how would you know?

I have insider info LOL. And front row seats.. They were singing for sure.. Could also see the masks blowing out and sucking in. That's how we could tell who was singing when they weren't standing right in front of us...

[riser4]

Not surprised:. https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/22/healt...ess/index.html

[Benny Profane]

If Americans wanted a good health care system all they have to do is vote for the politicians who will give it to them. Isn't that how it works in this country. But goddamn, isn't this pandemic divisive enough without throwing "socialized medicine" into the mix. If there are any on the right who don't think covid is hoax that would convince them that it is.

Of course, doctor.

[XXX-er]

Americans want to be able to chose the HC they can't afford

[altasnob]

Living by the Code: In China, Covid-Era Controls May Outlast the Virus; The country has instituted a wide range of high-tech controls on society as part of a mostly successful effort to stop the virus. The consequences may endure.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/30/w...smid=url-share

Emboldened by their successes in stamping out Covid, Chinese officials are turning their sharpened surveillance against other risks, including crime, pollution and “hostile” political forces. This amounts to a potent techno-authoritarian tool for Mr. Xi as he intensifies his campaigns against corruption and dissent.

The foundation of the controls is the health code. The local authorities, working with tech companies, generate a user’s profile based on location, travel history, test results and other health data. The code’s color — green, yellow or red — determines whether the holder is allowed into buildings or public spaces. Its use is enforced by legions of local officials with the power to quarantine residents or restrict their movements.

Officials have used pandemic health monitoring systems to flush out fugitives. Some fugitives have been tracked down by their health codes. Others who avoided the apps have found life so difficult that they have surrendered.

Since 2020, Hangzhou has also used video cameras on streets to check whether residents are wearing masks. One district monitored home power consumption to check whether residents were sticking to quarantine orders. The central city of Luoyang installed sensors on the doors of residents quarantining at home, in order to notify officials if they were opened.

The central government has directed the police, as well as internet and telephone companies, to share information about residents’ travel history with community workers so that the workers can decide whether residents are considered high-risk.

[altasnob]

Athletes at the Beijing games apparently have to install an app on their phone that records all conversation and shares that info with the Chinese government.

[altasnob]

Douthout in the NYTimes; Will a Mask Debate Split Blue States?

if you’re a New York City resident, you can experience two completely different realities just by traveling the short distance from the posher parts of Brooklyn to where he lives in Queens — passing from a world of ubiquitous N95s and careful checking of vaccine cards to a world where masking is maybe a 50 percent proposition and, outside of hipster establishments, the vaccine-pass rules are “almost totally unenforced.”

[~mikey b]

Athletes at the Beijing games apparently have to install an app on their phone that records all conversation and shares that info with the Chinese government.

I know an athlete and a patroller going to Beijing. They’ve all been recommended to use burner phones and limit electronic communication.

[::: :::]

It's sort of amazing that we would even consider continuing to turn society upside down, particularly for kids, to stop a disease that a) can be vaccinated for b) disproportionately affects older people when we are increasingly starting to see effects on kids that some of the countermeasures have.

It’s sort of amazing people continue to discount the severity and transmissibility of this virus more than two years in, especially as we seem destined to hit 1M deaths from this virus before the year is out.

[altasnob]

At the beginning of the pandemic, when I read about social distancing, masking, and flattening the curve, it was all about keeping the healthcare system from being overwhelmed. At the time, no expert honestly expected these measures to continue even after hospitalizations are down in a fruitless attempt to control a novel, very contagious infectious disease. But today, there is a segment of society that expects us to attempt to control the virus indefinitely. It's no longer about keeping the the healthcare system operational but instead about saving all lives from COVID, even at the expense of lives lost in other ways.

Just as government delayed their initial response to COVID, we are about to see governments all over Earth delay their relaxation of those rules even with cases and hospitalizations plummeting. This delay is not based on science, but is because of politics.

[jono]

Mazderati, is the stupid button patented? Maybe file quick TM. That has legs.

[CarlMega]

At the beginning of the pandemic, when I read about social distancing, masking, and flattening the curve, it was all about keeping the healthcare system from being overwhelmed. At the time, no expert honestly expected these measures to continue even after hospitalizations are down in a fruitless attempt to control a novel, very contagious infectious disease. But today, there is a segment of society that expects us to attempt to control the virus indefinitely. It's no longer about keeping the the healthcare system operational but instead about saving all lives from COVID, even at the expense of lives lost in other ways.

Just as government delayed their initial response to COVID, we are about to see governments all over Earth delay their relaxation of those rules even with cases and hospitalizations plummeting. This delay is not based on science, but is because of politics.

I don't think you are assessing our current situation correctly - local to me, our health care is stretched beyond functional. Further, I don't think the 'segment' you speak of is meaningful or representative... I don't even know anyone with the talking point of 'indefinitely'. Feel free to cite.

[oldnew_guy]

It’s sort of amazing people continue to discount the severity and transmissibility of this virus more than two years in, especially as we seem destined to hit 1M deaths from this virus before the year is out.

Indeed, which is why it blows my mind that we don’t have better mitigation and safety strategies in place for kids, workplaces, etc

Every American should have been issued an N95 months (a year?) ago. They should have had rapid tests available for free. Schools should have better, clearer protocols and mitigations for what happens when a closure needs to occur. Teachers need more support, they cannot run a remote class for some kids and an in person for others.

Kids need to have access to remote learning if they are quarantined for exposure or illness (not happening in many places, kid just goes home for 10 days) while the rest of their class stays in person.

Some large percentage of people will not get vaccinated, so we will likely continue to have some form of this pandemic around filling up hospitals. Is there a plan to build capacity and restructure healthcare to handle that for years into the future?

Instead we seem to just be muddling along thinking everything will just go back to “normal”.

High schoolers are walking out over this stuff. Teachers are leaving. We are losing healthcare workers.

[altasnob]

I don't think you are assessing our current situation correctly - local to me, our health care is stretched beyond functional. Further, I don't think the 'segment' you speak of is meaningful or representative... I don't even know anyone with the talking point of 'indefinitely'. Feel free to cite.

Yes, hospitals in certain parts of the US at this very moment are at, or past, capacity as the US hit peak Omicron on January 17. But if you want to see your future, look at the NY and DC greater area, as these areas were hit by Omicron first. Cases are plummeting, and hospitalizations are following. But do you think liberal dominated NYC will relax any of its strictest in the US COVID laws soon despite falling cases?

[CarlMega]

But do you think liberal dominated NYC will relax any of its strictest in the US COVID laws soon despite falling cases?

Again, just because some areas have pushed through their absolute peak (still high mind you), it's premature to wave the all clear flag. A little patience.

Didn't NYC relax their rules at least once already? Pretty sure there's been changes from lockdown to quarantine to mask to distancing as the situation has changed; the past summer for example.

So - who are the ring leaders of this 'indefinitely' movement you speak to? Where can I find their policy positions and talking points?

[bennymac]

. Cases are plummeting, and hospitalizations are following. But do you think liberal dominated NYC will relax any of its strictest in the US COVID laws soon despite falling cases?

If we’re not testing are cases really plummeting? Wouldn’t hospitalizations and deaths be a better measure of the wave?

But to answer your question: yes.

[Smoova]

So - who are the ring leaders of this 'indefinitely' movement you speak to? Where can I find their policy positions and talking points?

...

Again, just because some areas have pushed through their absolute peak (still high mind you), it's premature to wave the all clear flag. A little patience.

[bennymac]

so CarlMega is the ringleader! Wow so much influence on policy from padded room posts all the way to the CDC.

[Core Shot]

I know an athlete and a patroller going to Beijing. They’ve all been recommended to use burner phones and limit electronic communication.

Why?

Do they have something to hide?

[CarlMega]

so CarlMega is the ringleader! Wow so much influence on policy from padded room posts all the way to the CDC.

Is that what was implied? I would appreciate that much stroke... but tbh I'm a cautiously optimistic type person who took to heart old sayings and fables: don't count your chickens before they hatch & "the three little pigs".

[bennymac]

If omicron settles this pandemic down to an endemic level and the restrictions loosen then the crayon eaters will say “see what we did with our resistance!”

[altasnob]

If we’re not testing are cases really plummeting? Wouldn’t hospitalizations and deaths be a better measure of the wave?

But to answer your question: yes.

Yes, but go look at the graph I posted (from NYTimes). Hospitalizations are already well past peak in DC and NY areas. Deaths peaking right now. Hell, we're even past peak hospitalizations for the entire US today. We are on the decline and the news is things go down just as fast as they go up.

Just like no politician wants to appear soft on crime, politicians in liberal areas will not want to appear as being soft on COVID. Who wants to place bets on when Canada will stop all their ridiculous border rules? Or when will the US stop requiring a negative COVID test to return on an international flight? When will we no longer need to show proof of vaccines or negative tests to get into large events? Will governments who imposed vaccine mandates end those mandates and rehire unvaccinated staff when new cases are nearly non-existent?

[bennymac]

I’ve seen right and left leaning politicians put strict restrictions in place during surges and then dial them back as the waves subsided. This has happened repeatedly.

[CarlMega]

I’ve seen right and left leaning politicians put strict restrictions in place during surges and then dial them back as the waves subsided. This has happened repeatedly.

Of course. What this discussion is really about is: "this is not on my personal timeline". I used to be impatient with people, but I learned that expecting the world/people to match up right on my schedule/timeline was a terrible approach. Authorities really get the shaft tho - because they need to consider their decisions due to the consequences of getting it wrong tends to be high. So any risk-adverse leaning decision drives the over confident people who routinely go "everyone knows that! can't you see?" nuts.