Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[californiagrown]

I'll also entertain the possibility that the shit got to the lab FROM the market shakedown.. They've got it there and some of it got out from there too.. It could be BOTH!

Maybe the lab released a variation of the covid virus which infected the wetmarket animals, and was only a small mutation away from being human transmissible?


So many possibilities! I still dont really understand why its so important to know for sure. Labs already implement all safety measures they feel neccessary, and wetmarkets will continue because humans trust culture over science. So really, we want to know, just so we know.

[MultiVerse]

I'll also entertain the possibility that the shit got to the lab FROM the market shakedown.. They've got it there and some of it got out from there too.. It could be BOTH!

I guess that's possible but it would hardly matter at that point because by then the virus was already spreading like wildfire. The live animal trade and live animal markets are a common theme in virus spillover events, with markets such as the Huanan market selling live mammals being in the highest risk category. The events leading up to the COVID-19 pandemic mirror the SARS-CoV-1 outbreaks from 2002 to 2004, which were traced to infected animals in the Guangdong, Jiangxi, Henan, Hunan, and Hubei provinces in China. Unlike the SARS-CoV-1 outbreaks, however, after which animals were sampled, with SARS-CoV-2 the millions of animals in the markets and on surrounding farms were not sampled and were mostly destroyed.


*** To reduce the risk of future pandemics, we must understand, and then limit, the routes and opportunities for virus spillover ***


Source Science 26 Jul 2022: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8715

... but rather just agreeing with Cono's point that "Every idea about the origin of Covid-19 is technically a conspiracy theory."

Cono's point is nonsensical. A conspiracy theory is an explanation for an event or situation that asserts the existence of a conspiracy by powerful and sinister groups, often political in motivation, when other explanations are more probable. We know the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan was the early epicenter of the COVID-19 pandemic. That's not a conspiracy, at all. In other words, not every idea is a conspiracy. At this point given what we know any conspiracy involves all other explanations other than intermediate wildlife hosts coming from the Huanan market.

[californiagrown]

we really DON'T know all there is to know about the virus, despite Bunions assertions that teh science knows all when he said, and I quote...

You don't think we know most everything there is to know about this virus by now?
-Bunion, 2023

guy. You are getting worked up about things he never said.

[californiagrown]

*** To reduce the risk of future pandemics, we must understand, and then limit, the routes and opportunities for virus spillover ***


Source Science 26 Jul 2022: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8715

Isn't it an accepted fact that wet markets contribute and are at high risk for incubating animal-human cross over viruses? Like, thats been known for a long, long time. Still have wet markets though, because culture is stronger than science.

As of right now there are two theories for the creation of the virus: Lab leak and Wet market. Both are obvious and known risks and have been so for decades. I get that science should always seek to understand every mechanism and process, but functionally and realistically it doesnt matter where this virus started because labs are already doing everything they can to prevent leaks, and wetmarkets will continue occuring as long as the local culture demands them (science be damned! Especially in a part of the world that largely doesnt follow western medicine/science and chooses folk medicine instead).

[MultiVerse]

That's not quite accurate in terms of this arising from long held tradition. The existence of wildlife farms in western Hubei Province, including hundreds of thousands of raccoon dogs on farms in Enshi Prefecture, which supplied the Huanan market along with farmed wild animals for use in 'traditional' medicine were created as part of a rural jobs and cultural program promoted by Xi himself. Xi's predecessors, especially Deng looked to modernize and Westernize China, whereas Xi sought both to modernize and nationalize China. Promoting older cultural practices that had fallen out of favor was one of the ways he went about it.

[skaredshtles]

guy. You are getting worked up about things he never said.

I'm pretty sure that won't deter MF.

[SumJongGuy]

And that may still be quite possible. I'm actually not even saying it WASN'T from a natural source with any degree of certainty, but rather just agreeing with Cono's point that "Every idea about the origin of Covid-19 is technically a conspiracy theory."

Is there really much point in rehashing the exact same theory that's been thoroughly investigated and MOSTLY ruled out UNLESS THERE IS NEW INFORMATION WE DIDN'T HAVE THEN? Otherwise, it's simply people pushing bullshit that's been adequately debunked months or years ago trying to act like that didn't happen.. It's not just with this, election results, pretty much everything.. Refusal to accept reality without preponderance of new data which could change previous conclusions is at the least a waste of everyone's time and likely nefarious attempts to sow distrust..

[MontuckyFried]

....and likely nefarious attempts to sow distrust..

Oh, the governmental bodies and medical authorities around the world have done that on their own JUST fine. It's just that SOME people actually paid attention to their non-sensical bullshit, complete inconsistencies, and had the "gall" to call out these authoritarian autocrats and plutocrats on it all.

[dunfree]

Oh, the governmental bodies and medical authorities around the world have done that on their own JUST fine. It's just that SOME people actually paid attention to their non-sensical bullshit, complete inconsistencies, and had the "gall" to call out these authoritarian autocrats and plutocrats on it all.

the funniest part about “lab leak” is it’s proponents are trusting nefarious government orgs that don’t & wont produce evidence as proof.

[BCMtnHound]

I like the old phrase ‘avoid attributing an action or event to malicious intent, that is more easily explained by human stupidity’

[jono]

Every idea about the origin of Covid-19 is technically a conspiracy theory.

I just wish countries like China, Russia, Ukraine would out all the crooks in our govt, and big business, so at least we wouldn’t be pitted against eachother.

Quick sidebar: did you intend to troll Austin with this, or were you aiming elsewhere?

I don't think we have a sophisticated enough rating system for all the variations, but pulling in someone to agree with the troll bait seems like a notable achievement. Not to diminish it if that was a lucky accident--you miss 100% of the shots you don't take and all. Congrats.

[Bunion 2020]

Give Austin a break, he thinks he had a Gotcha moment and intends to revel in it for as long as possible. Right now he is probably telling anyone who will listen to his drivel how he schooled some woke lefty on the Internetz. Little victories I guess.

And as for the impacts on this generation of kids? Yeah its there and the only difference is that this is a different impact than what every generation has to deal with and if his kids are doing so badly, maybe its just that he has rubbed off on them as some parents can do.

[MontuckyFried]

Cono's point is nonsensical. A conspiracy theory is an explanation for an event or situation that asserts the existence of a conspiracy by powerful and sinister groups, often political in motivation, when other explanations are more probable. We know the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan was the early epicenter of the COVID-19 pandemic. That's not a conspiracy, at all. In other words, not every idea is a conspiracy. At this point given what we know any conspiracy involves all other explanations other than intermediate wildlife hosts coming from the Huanan market.

Ok. I'll concede that. Perhaps "conspiracy" is totally the wrong choice of words. I guess we can just stick with plain old "theory." I'm good with that.

I like the old phrase ‘avoid attributing an action or event to malicious intent, that is more easily explained by human stupidity’

True. True. There's probably like a 99.999% chance that THIS is the most likely explanation of all of it.

[bennymac]

it used to be a daily occurrence that MF would come in here - spout the same stupid shit you'd find dumbfuck boomers with zero education posting on facebook - and then get taken to task to the point he'd concede - only to restart the cycle the following day

eventually that slowed down as the pandemic tapered off

what's fascinating is that the revival of the lab leak theory - even just ever so slightly - has led to a resurgence of the same bullshit and a desire to relitigate everything - masks, vaccine efficacy, mandates, lockdowns, kids health, mental health, conspiracies etc etc etc

all it took was for someone to say "hey maybe we can't rule out lab leak 100%" and mothafuckas be all like "See! I told you the jabs were just clot shots! We didn't need to lockdown! Only old people died! I AM VINDICATED!"

It really is fascinating.

Also just an interesting coincidence that skidog's timeout ending coincided with this lab leak news - that is like a troll lottery win for him.

[Mazderati]

And as for the impacts on this generation of kids? Yeah its there and the only difference is that this is a different impact than what every generation has to deal with and if his kids are doing so badly, maybe its just that he has rubbed off on them as some parents can do.

If nothing else, stay-at-home measures were a welcome detour from active shooter drills, huddling in a closets, and Pumped Up Kicks on repeat.

[MontuckyFried]

Give Austin a break, he thinks he had a Gotcha moment and intends to revel in it for as long as possible. Right now he is probably telling anyone who will listen to his drivel how he schooled some woke lefty on the Internetz. Little victories I guess.

Is that really what you think? I keep these enjoyable little spouts contained to this dark corner of the internet. And I don't cross-contaminate to non-related threads. K?

and if his kids are doing so badly, maybe its just that he has rubbed off on them as some parents can do.

Your lack of reading comprehension skills shines through once again. I distinctly said that MY kids are doing great, and quite directly due to the fact that we gave them a proper childhood through the worst of the pandemic. Coupled with the fact that we educated them quite well at home, they're scholastically thriving. My 1st grader reads at a 5th grade level. My kindergartener can do mental math with big numbers better than most high schoolers thanks to the Singapore math we've instilled.

Would love for you to meet them someday so you can contrast them with all the kids out there who suffered developmentally through the lockdowns and beyond. Will hit you up next time I'm in the area. We're all overdue for a mag meetup anyway. Riverhouse for some kickass bbq and beers?

[Bunion 2020]

Also just an interesting coincidence that skidog's timeout ending coincided with this lab leak news - that is like a troll lottery win for him.

He is not filling the pages with more bullshit, did he get another time out?

Riverhouse for some kickass bbq and beers?

Love to. Keep in touch.

[lowsparkco]

love how all the lableak discourse is meta commentary. “Sure we have fuck all to substantiate it but the real crime is not being able to cover ourselves in feces and be accepted”

The lableak discourse is actually that the DOE says it came from the lab. They haven’t released the evidence and they admit the probability is low but that’s the narrative.

You guys have fomented so much hatred for each other and slung so much shit, you all make some good points but you’ve lost all civility. Now, no one will even wade into the muck. Kinda sad.

[Bunion 2020]

The lableak discourse is actually that the DOE says it came from the lab.

Not exactly:

The news that the U.S. Department of Energy now believes with "low confidence" that the COVID-19 pandemic "most likely" was the result of a laboratory leak in China, resulted in a firestorm of debate across the internet.

First reported by The Wall Street Journal and not independently confirmed by ABC News, the DOE, which oversees a system of laboratories in the U.S., changed its stance from undecided -- becoming the second agency, after the FBI, to believe a lab accident resulted in the global health emergency.

Four other U.S. agencies believe the virus was a result of natural transmission and that the virus, known as SARS-CoV-2, jumped from animals to humans at a wet market. Two other agencies are undecided.


"There's just no consensus across the government," John Kirby the National Security Council Coordinator for Strategic Communications told reporters Monday. "The President believes that it is important that we get to the bottom of this."

Without seeing the report that made the DOE reach its conclusion, "it really becomes impossible to speculate," said Dr. John Brownstein, an epidemiologist and chief innovation officer at Boston Children's Hospital, and an ABC News contributor.

You guys have fomented so much hatred for each other and slung so much shit, you all make some good points but you’ve lost all civility. Now, no one will even wade into the muck. Kinda sad.

Yeah, very true. When Covid became political that is the result.

[bennymac]

You guys have fomented so much hatred for each other and slung so much shit, you all make some good points but you’ve lost all civility. Now, no one will even wade into the muck. Kinda sad.

If people want to have an honest conversation about the DOE release that would be welcome.

A lot of posters here took that as an opportunity to host a parade in their honor to bring back every disproven viewpoint - "see! The DOE said lab leak and I said that all along - I also said the earth is flat and you guys shot me down. Checkmate to all you big pharma sheep! This proves I was right about everything you fucking morons!"

Jesus Christ even Cono waded in to bring up Bunny's "banning" (which Cono knows 100% is untrue but he posts it anyway cause he couldn't help but join the parade) - shit are we gonna retlitigate everything?

The response to that is not "hatred". But it is gonna bring out some shit slinging in return and the level of civility *in response* is on par with what posters like SkiDog are bringing to the table. Some of which is straight up lies laced with personal insults - sure you can argue that replying in kind isn't going to change anything - but cmon have some understanding why that's likely going to be the type of response.

[Danno]

Jesus Christ even Cono waded in to bring up Bunny's "banning" (which Cono knows 100% is untrue but he posts it anyway cause he couldn't help but join the parade) - shit are we gonna retlitigate everything?

FWIW, Benny was ultimately banned. He was initially given a time out, but once the time out was over he went scorched earth and wouldn't stop.

[sb]

https://people.com/health/florida-ma...e=facebook.com

Shit. Its brain eating amoeba season already.

I still have my toxic train wreck decorations up.

[CarlMega]

Looks like Skidog banned again. Thank you for your service.

[dunfree]

Yeah, very true. When Covid became political that is the result.

You’ve got it backwards. Covid became political because one group can’t hold the same opinions as the other - the surge in antivax belief being exhibit A. Ukraine quickly becoming Exhibit B.


lucky for you ScottyB you don’t have a brain. Unfortunately for you Russia will be a lateral move.

[bennymac]

FWIW, Benny was ultimately banned. He was initially given a time out, but once the time out was over he went scorched earth and wouldn't stop.

let me be the first to say I was wrong about that then. Apologies to Cono for that comment.

maybe a Skidog, Bunny, and Deebased summit could be facilitated