Which Wagon?

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

Alright. Flame suit on.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...0457/overview/

I've owed two of these cars and they are roomy, economical, well built and comfortable. Yahtzee!

Just interested...did you lease? We owned a Hyundai (same company) and everything was great until it hit 60K miles. Then everything started failing. In 80,000 miles I had to replace the struts twice and the brakes 3 times. Again, first impressions are long-lasting with me. So....no Korean cars and no Subarus.

[skimaxpower]

Honestly, you should look at a used Chevy Bolt EV. I've owned one for a year now, and I"m really impressed. 60 mile daily commute. I frequently can charge for free at work, but my monthly fuel bill dropped from $150/month (hybrid car) to $30/month (electric).

260 mile range in good weather. Drops to 170 mile range in cold winter. EPA says 238 mile range. Charge fully overnight on 240 volt circuit.

You can find a used 2017 for well under $20k. I bet Vermont has some state incentives too. It's good enough for Greg Hill.

[toast2266]

Bump.

Any reason I shouldn't buy an Alltrack?

In the market for a wagon / crossover. Don't need anything big (I have a pickup truck for that). AWD and decent ground (snow) clearance are mandatory. I'm semi-rural, so most euro options don't have local dealer support. Manual transmission, decent gas mileage and, conversely, an engine that'll actually move the car along in a timely manner would be nice.

Pros for the Alltrack:
-AWD
-Decent clearance
-Manual transmission
-Not crazy expensive
-There's a local dealership
-It's not a Subaru

Cons:
-Not super awesome mileage for it being a pretty small car that doesn't make a ton of power
-If it was a smidge bigger, I wouldn't complain
-VW's history of being mildly buggy (which was more or less the case with my wife's old Jetta)

[uglymoney]

Do not buy an Alltrack with a sunroof to avoid the extremely common unfixable leak saga. Mileage has been very impressive on mine. Biggest worry/headache is waterpumps/thermostat housing that tend to get weepy on a lot of them/replaced under warranty. Haven't had the issue on mine yet. 24k and still a very happy camper. 18s manual. Awesome road trip machine. Quiet and comfortable with great road manners. Shifting is rarely necessary on hills as long as you are going fast enough to keep engine above 2k it just digs in and goes. Just took a road trip with wife and girl for the first half and solo camper for part 2.

[mtskibum16]

Someone else mentioned it, but leaving criteria at wagon vs crossover/SUV leaves off a lot of good vehicles. They also mentioned Mazda and a CX5 or CX9 should be on your list. They concentrate on driving dynamics more than other Japanese models but should offer better reliability and lower maintenance costs than the Euros you're looking at. Plus when you buy Japanese you don't have to worry about the insane early life depreciation that the Euros have and buying new is a legitimate alternative.

As a counter to your Subaru gripes, my wife has a 2015 Outback we bought new. 85k on it with nothing more than oil changes and averages 26+mpg with upsized all terrain tires and often a roof box. Nothing near sporty but is comfortable and eats up road miles. We could also probably sell it for something like $5k less than we bought it for new 5 years and 85k miles ago. ymmv

[uglymoney]

Good points but keep in mind the Alltracks are like 20-22 brand new with 76k warranty because dealers cannot give away any wagons that aren't Outbacks

The depreciation is depresssing but who cares because you want a turbo and a manual. Let us suppose after 3 years you lose 26% on a 29k Subaru with heated seats or 35% on a 22k VW with heated seats. It is a wash after 3 years you lose 7.5kish on either car but you paid more interest/opportunity cost on the Subaru. Bigger car but super lame CVT and no Mazda has awd and a manual.

That being said - even if you can somehow twist the numbers in a way that makes buying a VW seem reasonable buying a VW vehicle is definitely not advisable. Seems he already knows that.

[mtskibum16]

Good points but keep in mind the Alltracks are like 20-22 brand new with 76k warranty because dealers cannot give away any wagons that aren't Outbacks

The depreciation is depresssing but who cares because you want a turbo and a manual. Let us suppose after 3 years you lose 26% on a 29k Subaru with heated seats or 35% on a 22k VW with heated seats. It is a wash after 3 years you lose 7.5kish on either car but you paid more interest/opportunity cost on the Subaru. Bigger car but super lame CVT and no Mazda has awd and a manual.

That being said - even if you can somehow twist the numbers in a way that makes buying a VW seem reasonable buying a VW vehicle is definitely not advisable. Seems he already knows that.

See my edit above your post re: Subaru. I think we're closer to 17-26% loss in 5 years and 85k miles at 1.9% apr. I am in the PNW where Subaru and Toyota resale values are off the charts high. We've used up nearly half the life of the car with less than 25% depreciation.

[uglymoney]

Yeah. I am not here to talk anybody out of buying a Subaru if that is what they want. Certainly I have been happy with mine.

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[toast2266]

Uglymoney - good info re: the leaking sunroof. Which kinda sucks, because it means I'm stuck with the base model.

Wife has a Subaru Crosstrek. The AWD is good, and it's a good size with good clearance. In all other respects, I fucking despise that vehicle. I'm sure an Outback is better, but I think most of the things I hate about the Crosstrek would at least be moderately present in the Outback.

Mazdas would be on the list, but there's no local dealer. So, at least for dealer support, I'm limited to the 3 American brands, Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Nissan, Subaru and VW. I'd potentially look at something that doesn't have a dealer nearby, but it'd have to be a screaming deal.

[mcski]

My mechanic hates sunroofs and is convinced they all leak and are not worth the hassle

[uglymoney]

The base Alltrack is pretty loaded imo. Heated seats and mirrors. Android auto. All the shit you really need and no wants you really do not need.

Also I am just shy of 6'2" and it sleeps great. Plenty of room to stretch out.

[nickwm21]

I saw an AWD Acura TSX Sport Wagon the other day. I didn’t know they existed. Just another option for you wagoneers.


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[El Chupacabra]

I saw an AWD Acura TSX Sport Wagon the other day. I didn’t know they existed. Just another option for you wagoneers.


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Those were FWD only, in the US. Dunno about Canada or elsewhere.

[nickwm21]

Those were FWD only, in the US. Dunno about Canada or elsewhere.

That’s a shame. The one I saw must have been imported then...

Makes me think... a Lexus IS 350 AWD wagon would own the TGR Dentist market, manual or not.

[El Chupacabra]

That’s a shame. The one I saw must have been imported then...

Makes me think... a Lexus IS 350 AWD wagon would own the TGR Dentist market, manual or not.

Or it could've been "faux wheel drive," with an ebay/Amazon AWD badge to help get past chain control.

Agreed on the IS 350 AWD in wagon form. I have one (sedan), and it is just kinda small. Making it VW Jetta Sportwagen size would be so much more useful.

[alpinevibes]

Bump.


Pros for the Alltrack:
-AWD
-Decent clearance
-Manual transmission
-Not crazy expensive
-There's a local dealership
-It's not a Subaru

Cons:
-Not super awesome mileage for it being a pretty small car that doesn't make a ton of power
-If it was a smidge bigger, I wouldn't complain
-VW's history of being mildly buggy (which was more or less the case with my wife's old Jetta)

Your Pros and Cons were exactly what we were weighing; we have a 2017 SE manual with 22k. The pros outweighed the cons and the price was too good compared to a mid-trim Outback.

Coming from three previous Subaru’s we wanted something nicer, sportier and more enjoyable to operate. We knew that would come at the expense of MPG, possible VW bugs and losing a bit of cargo space, but we’ve made it work.

Our overall MPG (at 8000’, not usually driving it nicely) have been better than rated and better then our previous Outback 2.5i. The clearance has been good enough, and the bugs have been minimal (though the dealer is 1hr away...)

FWIW, we have a sunroof, love it and had the leak problem. The dealer fix (pull the drain plugs) seems to have worked for now. I think we’d still buy it again with one, especially if you’re getting 72k warranty.


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[gregL]

Cons:
-Not super awesome mileage for it being a pretty small car that doesn't make a ton of power
-If it was a smidge bigger, I wouldn't complain
-VW's history of being mildly buggy (which was more or less the case with my wife's old Jetta)

-What do you consider super awesome mileage? Last weekend I averaged 31.5 mpg over about 12 hours of driving @ 80-ish (it said 35mpg, but my winter tires are 10% smaller in diameter than summer). That's with an APR Stage 1 upgrade, so the car pulls more smoothly and efficiently in 6th gear.
-It won't get bigger
-No bugs yet, but it only has 18k on it.

[simple]

Anyone buy the new Outback XT turbo yet? Totally new engine.

[toast2266]

Your Pros and Cons were exactly what we were weighing; we have a 2017 SE manual with 22k. The pros outweighed the cons and the price was too good compared to a mid-trim Outback.

Coming from three previous Subaru’s we wanted something nicer, sportier and more enjoyable to operate. We knew that would come at the expense of MPG, possible VW bugs and losing a bit of cargo space, but we’ve made it work.

Our overall MPG (at 8000’, not usually driving it nicely) have been better than rated and better then our previous Outback 2.5i. The clearance has been good enough, and the bugs have been minimal (though the dealer is 1hr away...)

FWIW, we have a sunroof, love it and had the leak problem. The dealer fix (pull the drain plugs) seems to have worked for now. I think we’d still buy it again with one, especially if you’re getting 72k warranty.

Nice. Good to hear you're getting decent mileage in it. And glad to hear the fix for the sunroof leak is viable. I also notice that the fix doesn't appear to apply to 2019 models, so maybe they've fixed it in the newer ones.

-What do you consider super awesome mileage? Last weekend I averaged 31.5 mpg over about 12 hours of driving @ 80-ish (it said 35mpg, but my winter tires are 10% smaller in diameter than summer). That's with an APR Stage 1 upgrade, so the car pulls more smoothly and efficiently in 6th gear.
-It won't get bigger
-No bugs yet, but it only has 18k on it.

Also good to hear re: mileage. I'm pretty ok with something in the low 30's on the highway (although, of course, better is better). With the new crop of small engines mated to turbos, the question is always how hard does the car lean on the turbo. I've driven some cars where you can be semi gentle, avoid spooling up the turbo, and get along just fine with decent mileage. I've also driven cars where the turbo is spooled up pretty much all the time, resulting in way shittier mileage than the window sticker indicates. Sounds like the Alltrack is in the former category.

[SupreChicken]

That’s a shame. The one I saw must have been imported then...

Makes me think... a Lexus IS 350 AWD wagon would own the TGR Dentist market, manual or not.

My wife and I just settled for a hybrid RAV4. Needed a more fuel efficient ride for her commute with weather capabilities, but...would have paid more for this ^^^^

[SupreChicken]

Anyone buy the new Outback XT turbo yet? Totally new engine.

Curious about this as well. Have a 2018 3.6. Would have much rather had an xt. A buddy’s Manual xt 2005 outback was every bit as fast and fun to drive as my 2005 wrx.

I’d also still love to see the levorg come to the states.

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

As a counter to your Subaru gripes, my wife has a 2015 Outback we bought new. 85k on it with nothing more than oil changes and averages 26+mpg with upsized all terrain tires and often a roof box. Nothing near sporty but is comfortable and eats up road miles. We could also probably sell it for something like $5k less than we bought it for new 5 years and 85k miles ago. ymmv

I would absolutely unload it now if you can get within $5K of what you paid for it. You're looking at a significant repair bill soon for a new head gasket.

[uglymoney]

Nice. Good to hear you're getting decent mileage in it. And glad to hear the fix for the sunroof leak is viable. I also notice that the fix doesn't appear to apply to 2019 models, so maybe they've fixed it in the newer ones.



Also good to hear re: mileage. I'm pretty ok with something in the low 30's on the highway (although, of course, better is better). With the new crop of small engines mated to turbos, the question is always how hard does the car lean on the turbo. I've driven some cars where you can be semi gentle, avoid spooling up the turbo, and get along just fine with decent mileage. I've also driven cars where the turbo is spooled up pretty much all the time, resulting in way shittier mileage than the window sticker indicates. Sounds like the Alltrack is in the former category.

If I have a tailwind I can get upper twenties with a huge box in the roof at 80 mph. To me that is damned good. No box is almost always 30 plus...up to 34 35 on slower roads. The engine lends itself to low rpms.

I can't know for sure on the sunroof since I do not have one but before you buy one with a sunroof I would suggest browsing the Alltrack owners group on Facebook for nightmare story after nightmare story on long sunroof repair stories and repeat leakers/buybacks. It is a VW after all. A company with a long history of fucking customers over. Eyes wide open.

The non sunroof S has substantially more headroom as well.

To me an 18 or 19 S with a manual and turbo and 6/76 at 20 to 22k new or cheaper used is a no brainer if you can find one. Go drive one at least. So nice. I swore I'd never buy a VW but here I am, kind of a fanboy VW hater.

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[mtskibum16]

I would absolutely unload it now if you can get within $5K of what you paid for it. You're looking at a significant repair bill soon for a new head gasket.

That's just not accurate. Maybe if it were a 1995 Outback.

As for the new XT, yeah that's tempting. I would have absolutely bought an XT had it been available in 2015. Had planned on the FXT but just didn't fit right. I do wish they would ditch the CVT for a proper modern auto. The CVT has performed "fine" but I am concerned about longevity.

[huckbucket]

Just bought an Atlas. It's BIG. Feels like a VW. Drives like a VW, It's BIG. Mid-20s mileage in mixed driving.