SALOMON WARDEN 11 MNC *DEMO* PAPER TEMPLATE

[gregorys]

Edited - 2019-11-21
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Template updated after a test mount and feedback - see the thread for details. Thanks to Shorty_J for the updates/feedback.

Backpressure appears to be correct, though it's only been tested with two different BSL boots. Testing with a wider range of boots would be good. Boot center should be right. It would be good to get another test mount.

As noted in my Warden 13 MNC demo thread - the heel pattern and the spacing between toe and heel are different between the 11 and the 13.

PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS ***NOT*** A TEMPLATE FOR THE REGULAR WARDEN. IT IS FOR A DEMO BINDING! Please, generally, don't post in this thread about the non-demo version. I just don't know anything about it.

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[This section is from the initial post, which I'm leaving for historical purposes, but which are not much relevant now.]
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So, this is a VERY quick and rough template for the Warden 11 MNC I have in hand.
I have NOT done even a test mount with this template.

It's based on the Warden 13 MNC demo template I also did. [And as such it may still have markings/labeling that says it's a Warden 13. I'll fix those later. Just wanted to get it out there quick.]

I simply eyeballed the toe-heel spacing - which also includes the boot center - and obviously the back-pressure of the binding. [I'm guessing I'm within probably 2-3mm for that spacing, but it's always difficult to know without a test mount.] The screw patterns in the heel and toe look pretty solid - these are easy to measure directly from a binding.

A test mount from anyone would be fab to help verify this very alpha version.
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[Shorty_J]

Thanks for that.

FWIW I measure ~79mm front to back measurement for the heel piece.

Also the measurements for the MNC template you provided are the same on the non-MNC version I have.

[gregorys]

Do a test mount. I've done a visual check with the template under a heel-rail and also with calipers.
The calipers were like 0.2mm less than 80mm. Visual check was also exceptionally close to 80mm.
I think you'll find a test mount is great with the 80mm spacing.

But that doesn't preclude me from changing it, if consensus thinks I'm wrong.

Part of my thinking is this - I can't imagine some engineer tossing it into CAD and saying - "Eh, 79mm seems like good spacing." vs "Lets use 80mm!"
(But then, I'm no engineer, and certainly don't think like one, so perhaps I'm totally whacked.)


-Greg

[Shorty_J]

Part of my thinking is this - I can't imagine some engineer tossing it into CAD and saying - "Eh, 79mm seems like good spacing." vs "Lets use 80mm!"

I know what you mean... but then again I can't figure out why they'd make a different spacing for the 11 and 13 demo, and why warden brakes wouldn't fit the "warden" 11 demo... and they did that.

I'm definitely doing 1 or more test mounts first.

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[Shorty_J]

Did a test mount on a 2x4 tonight and the forward pressure indicator is within the proper range for my BSL with the template as is.

So I'll call it confirmed.

Thanks for putting this together!

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[gregorys]

I don't have the pair I did have access to any more - so I won't get a chance to do a test mount myself - so having your feedback is nice.

But can you drop a few different boots with different BSL's in them [provided you have access to some different sizes] and check back-pressure for those? I'm pretty sure I'm close, but just because one BSL has the right back-pressure doesn't mean that every BSL will be correct. The best/easiest test is simply to drop a range of boots in and see.

Thanks!

[Shorty_J]

I don't have the pair I did have access to any more - so I won't get a chance to do a test mount myself - so having your feedback is nice.

But can you drop a few different boots with different BSL's in them [provided you have access to some different sizes] and check back-pressure for those? I'm pretty sure I'm close, but just because one BSL has the right back-pressure doesn't mean that every BSL will be correct. The best/easiest test is simply to drop a range of boots in and see.

Thanks!

I can try my wife's boots in there as a second data point but that's all I have access to right now.

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[gregorys]

That would be great. It would be at least one more data point.
I think I've got four boot sizes here that I test with, across the range - mine, my daughters and a couple of loaner boots.

[Shorty_J]

I looked closer and while the forward pressure seems correct on both boots I think the boot center is off... but I haven't head made careful measurements of how much... I'll do that later.

Edit:

Forward pressure is within the correct range for a 300mm boot and a 286mm boot.

The 286mm boot centre is about 1cm forward, the 300mm boot comes in about 1.3cm forward.

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[gregorys]

Just to be clear - the boot center needs to move 10-13mm [Lets say 12mm] toward the heel, right? [Speaking as Mr Dyslexia - and I always get turned around - so I just want to be sure I am moving things the right way.]

[Edited to say - I think I've got it backwards. But just say which way I need to move the line, and I'll do it.]

[Shorty_J]

No, the boot center line on the template needs to move forward toward the toe.

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[gregorys]

FYI - Template updated. Left toe-heel spacing as-is, because back-pressure appears to be correct. Moved boot center mark 13mm towards toe, to address an inaccuracy in the template. Boot center should be correct, or very close, now.

Template is beta now. Version 1.2

One more test mount would be good, as well as additional BSL sizes verified for proper back-pressure. [In short, the template should be very close, but might need very small tweaks.]

[Shorty_J]

Did and test mount on v1.2 and the forward pressure is still good and the boot center lines up properly.

[m03f61]

Please, post new version 1.2 of template!!!!!

[gregorys]

Huh?
It's up there - see the first post!
The "old" attached template in the first post was removed and replaced with the most current version - v1.2. Just download it.

[djmurph0311]

would these bindings work with Dynafit One boots?

[Shorty_J]

would these bindings work with Dynafit One boots?

No... they are not MNC so require a DIN standard sole.

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[gregorys]

No... they are not MNC so require a DIN standard sole.

But some Warden 11 Demos ARE MNC!
If they are MNC, then *IF* the Dynafit One is either GW/WTR or ISO-9523 then yes, a MNC version _should_ be compatible. [I say "should" because I've heard that some 9523 boots have so much rocker to them, that it's not possible to get the needed clearances above the floating AFD. Since I know nothing about that particular boot, I can't offer more than the above.]

[Shorty_J]

Nah... they're probably going to die. [emoji12]

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[PeachesNCream]

But some Warden 11 Demos ARE MNC!
If they are MNC, then *IF* the Dynafit One is either GW/WTR or ISO-9523 then yes, a MNC version _should_ be compatible. [I say "should" because I've heard that some 9523 boots have so much rocker to them, that it's not possible to get the needed clearances above the floating AFD. Since I know nothing about that particular boot, I can't offer more than the above.]

Not all Wardens are MNC compatible? Damn. How do I know if some Warden 13 demo binding I bought off of fleabay are MNC compatible?

[knarrrr]

There should be a silver badge next to the AFD that indicates if they are MNC compatible. I believe it was a running change, and the newer Warden 11s are going to all be MNC. We have both versions in the shop and that badge is the giveaway if in doubt.

[RyansFaith]

On the warden 13 demo binding, is it normal to have a small amount of lateral movement in the heel when they do not have a boot attached?

mine has a little bit of play. I figure it must be ok since both have it and I just picked them up from a local shop two weeks ago

[PeachesNCream]

There should be a silver badge next to the AFD that indicates if they are MNC compatible. I believe it was a running change, and the newer Warden 11s are going to all be MNC. We have both versions in the shop and that badge is the giveaway if in doubt.

Woo, got lucky, MNC compatible.

Is there any way to know what brake size they are? Are demo brakes compatible with non-demo brakes?

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[Lars_from_NM]

there are two errors on the Warden 11 Demo Template:
1) One hole on both the heel and toe is off. It appears the concentric hole mark is not snapped to the alignment line.
2) the heel scaling distance is labeled as 115mm and it appears to me that it should be labeled 105mm.

[gregorys]

I'll see if I can update things - I may need some help though. I don't have a pair of W11's to look at any more.