Ask the experts

[D(C)]

^^^ what he said.

I'd just add, re: #3, new Pikes are a lot better than the old Pikes. Current model nice Pikes are on par with a Fox 36 in terms of suppleness. Pikes might even be a touch better over small bumps, although 36 is definitely more supportive through mid stroke.

Just wondering - have you tried an older Pike with a 2019+ Debonair shaft installed? I put one in a 2016 Pike and found the fork to feel really good, on par with more modern alternatives.

In which other ways are the new Pikes "a lot" better? I would think that the minor tweaks to the chassis and damper would only be incremental improvements compared to the new air spring.

[El Chupacabra]

Real questions for toolbox / shop setup experts:
What tools should go on pegboard hangers vs inside toolbox/cabinet drawers?

IMHO pegboard with tools is for a bike shop, where you're going to using those tools -- and only those tools -- all day long. Unless you have enough space to make your workbench a dedicated bike shop bench, I wouldn't put any tools on pegboard. That takes up a lot of wall space that can be used for other storage.

I have one drawer in my rollaway cabinet that holds all the dedicated bike tools, like cassette tools, chain whip, cone wrenches -- the stuff that does not really have a use for anything other than on a bike. Other drawers are sorted by what they hold: flathead screwdrivers, philips, standard wrenches, metric wrenches, etc.... there's a lot of non-bike-specific tools that are used on bikes, but also used for cars, household, etc. I wouldn't want to pull apart a metric set of wrenches just to segregate the bike-specific sizes -- I keep all the metric tools together.

[toast2266]

Pegboards suck. If you really want to hang stuff, do nails into plywood.

But really, once I'm working on something, all the tools are just scattered on the bench. Storing them on the wall is less convenient and takes up more space. All of my stuff goes in drawers.

Just wondering - have you tried an older Pike with a 2019+ Debonair shaft installed? I put one in a 2016 Pike and found the fork to feel really good, on par with more modern alternatives.

In which other ways are the new Pikes "a lot" better? I would think that the minor tweaks to the chassis and damper would only be incremental improvements compared to the new air spring.

I haven't tried an upgraded pike, but yeah, the biggest difference is definitely the debonair spring. Newer dampers are noticeably better too though.

[EWG]

I'm with Toast on this one. I have a pegboard but it's barely used. I have some stuff on there like a screwdriver rack that holds 25 screwdrivers, and some bulky items like a park headset press, and a few daily household tools like a utility knife, but mostly is unused. Right now the biggest things hanging on it are a 24" kids specialized frame and fork, about 3-4 different disc brake setups, a set of 10 year old ultegra shifter/brakes, a bunch of clamps, and a dartboard.

Scralph: In terms of setup I have a U shape one like this:

On one side a pretty bomber workbench about 8' long that also coverts to a waxing station with a wax shaving catcher for skis. On the workbench is a 4 drawer Kolbalt tool chest with nothing in it but bike tools. On top of that I keep my pedros portable tool box that has all the tools in it I need to travel with. Also on top is a truing stand, and on one side a vice. This is where the pegboard is.

On the opposite side I have a mechanics craftsman rolling tool chest - one of the 4 foot high ones. General tools mostly, plus all my old framing stuff, but also a whole drawer for drivers and bits, and another for bike specific tools like a tensionometer and headset setter, stuff like that.

On the third side it's all metal shelves. Not all tools, but a lot of it is, including hand power tools. Also have about 20 shoeboxes on the shelves, and each is full of spares and parts of a different bike component - extra brakes in one, crank parts in another, seatposts, shifters, cassettes, bottom brackets etc etc. - they each get their own box. Also a bunch of those plastic boxes with tons of little compartments full of different bike small parts.

In the middle is the bike workstand.

Works really well for me. Biggest problem is that, as Toast mentioned above, I just scatter tools all over the place while I work. My shop friends tend to be really good at putting tools back in their place. I am the opposite of that. Wrench, leave shit everywhere, pick it back up when done. So I like a lot of surfaces to put stuff on.

[SchralphMacchio]

Space is currently not a problem in my extra-deep 1-car garage that we don't need for parking a car. I've got two 6' workbenches side by side (one nice, one ghetto, but I only have extra-bright lighting above the nice one) and a decent amount of wall space.

I bought 3 sections of 16" x 32" horizontal steel pegboard from amazon - "Wall Control" brand which is slotted and also has conventional holes. So I can mix and match various hangers, shelves, hooks etc. I am a fan of the Japanese 5s philosophy and probably once the pegboard is set up with a solid workflow I'll do sharpie outlines so it's very clear what tools go where and which ones are "missing" aka in use aka on top of my 20 ft2 of workbench surface somewhere.

I also have a ton of shelving space where I plan to use open 10" wide bins for spare parts and stuff, but it's in a different part of my garage so the idea is to grab whatever parts are needed and bring them over to the benches for the project of the day.

Right now I'm kind of thinking commonly used hand tools on the pegboards and specialty tools, drill bits, sockets, etc in the drawers. I would love to be able to hang my drill/driver on the pegboard since that one gets used so much.

[Cabinfever]

2/3nd on plywood wall w nails and shelves as you see fit.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[HankScorpio]

I use a small peg board for the 10 or so tools I'm always reaching for - cable cutters, BB tools, crank puller, cassette tool, etc. I recently picked up a large roller tool cabinet for everything else.

A couple random shop storage tips that I find handy - I use a magnetic knife strip on the wall right in front of my bench to hold L shaped allen wrenches and torx bits. Just grab one and stick it back on when you're done.

https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Powe...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

I also picked up a small parts organizer/drawer to keep the countless small bikes parts organized - ferrules, end caps, tubeless valves, bolts, etc. etc. This has routine bike work much easier.

https://www.amazon.com/Akro-Mils-101...n%2C181&sr=1-2

Its remarkable how many tiny bike parts you accumulate with multiple bikes.

[jackstraw]

I use a small peg board for the 10 or so tools I'm always reaching for - cable cutters, BB tools, crank puller, cassette tool, etc. I recently picked up a large roller tool cabinet for everything else.

A couple random shop storage tips that I find handy - I use a magnetic knife strip on the wall right in front of my bench to hold L shaped allen wrenches and torx bits. Just grab one and stick it back on when you're done.

https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Powe...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

I also picked up a small parts organizer/drawer to keep the countless small bikes parts organized - ferrules, end caps, tubeless valves, bolts, etc. etc. This has routine bike work much easier.

https://www.amazon.com/Akro-Mils-101...n%2C181&sr=1-2

Its remarkable how many tiny bike parts you accumulate with multiple bikes.

Fuck Amazon.

[nortonwhis]

How does everyone feel about progressive coil springs?
Cane Creek just launched them for trail riding. I have a coil shock for my yeti which didn't work amazingly (due to linear nature etc) but if the ramp in the spring works it could be better. I had also heard that progressive springs don't really work on mtbs for whatever reason.
https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-...ine-Shock,3261

[simple]

Works on my moto and my truck. Why wouldn't it work on a bicycle?

[jono]

Fine on more linear suspension designs, less fine if the mechanism is too progressive for it.

[adrenalated]

How does everyone feel about progressive coil springs?
Cane Creek just launched them for trail riding. I have a coil shock for my yeti which didn't work amazingly (due to linear nature etc) but if the ramp in the spring works it could be better. I had also heard that progressive springs don't really work on mtbs for whatever reason.
https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-...ine-Shock,3261

The MRP progressive spring feels great on my Transition Patrol (a fairly linear bike).

[nortonwhis]

That sounds like 3/3 positive which is incredibly weird for TGR!

Maybe it was variable rate springs that didn't work. I vaguely remember discussion that some kind of spring didn't work like they thought it would.

[XXX-er]

maybe certain suspension needs a certain spring also it looks to me like all the current yetis (except for the the 165 ) are designed for an airshock ?

[Andeh]

The MRP progressive spring feels great on my Transition Patrol (a fairly linear bike).

Did you put it on a DHX2 or the MRP Hazzard?

[adrenalated]

Did you put it on a DHX2 or the MRP Hazzard?

MRP Hazzard replacing stock DPX2

I haven't really ridden it enough to give a full review but I haven't had a bottom out yet. I also haven't done anything really stupid that should result in a bottom out, but as far as I can tell, the progressive spring is doing it's job.
It's massively better over small bumps and square edge hits. That was noticeable immediately. It's a bit worse pedaling and obviously weighs a fuckton.

[skaredshtles]

MRP Hazzard replacing stock DPX2

I haven't really ridden it enough to give a full review but I haven't had a bottom out yet. I also haven't done anything really stupid that should result in a bottom out, but as far as I can tell, the progressive spring is doing it's job.
It's massively better over small bumps and square edge hits. That was noticeable immediately. It's a bit worse pedaling and obviously weighs a fuckton.

MRP and DVO are apparently both making coils that will fit shorter-travel trunnion frames now... makes me *really* tempted to get one for my '18 Trance.

The DPX2 on it, like all Fox suspension I've had, has been completely underwhelming. Had a CC DB Inline coil on my old Reign and that shock had *really* nice performance.

Both (MRP & DVO) seem to come with a type of "climb switch" as well, which should be nice for the pedaling. Does the Hazzard on your Patrol have that switch?

[Andeh]

MRP Hazzard replacing stock DPX2

I haven't really ridden it enough to give a full review but I haven't had a bottom out yet. I also haven't done anything really stupid that should result in a bottom out, but as far as I can tell, the progressive spring is doing it's job.
It's massively better over small bumps and square edge hits. That was noticeable immediately. It's a bit worse pedaling and obviously weighs a fuckton.

Thanks. I have an 11-6 on my Sentinel, and was sort of fishing for info on how it might feel vs. a conventional coil. I find the 11-6 to be great over small bumps, especially very fast ones. It takes the edge off big hits due to the bumper but I can definitely feel them when they happen, and it doesn't take huge jumps to reach that point. But in contrast, the DPX2 with the largest token resists getting to that bottom-out more, but once I get there, it's a hard "clack". I feel the DPX2 is a bit more wallow-y at the sag point (31%) even with a lot of LSC (only 4 clicks from closed). The most surprising thing I think is that the 11-6 actually pedals better, probably due to running a lower sag. And yes, it weighs a fuckton and a half. I'm halfway tempted to try a progressive coil on a lighter weight base shock (like DHX2 or Hazzard) just because I feel fairly confident that I don't NEED Push to tune it for me (even though it does feel spot on).

[Andeh]

One more question for the experts, since I don't want to post on the dumpster fire torque wrench thread.

If you assume your torque wrench is slightly inaccurate, how much should you undershoot the torque specifications by to ensure you don't overtorque? I assume that you want to under torque, since over torquing can increase wear on bearings/pivots and make it harder to disassemble. What I've been doing is match the torque rating up to like 3nm. Up to 10nm, I undershoot by 0.5. Between 10-15, I undershoot by 1nm. Up to 45, I undershoot by 5nm. If it matters, I'm using a Pro Tools (Shimano) mini torque wrench for 1-15nm, and a Park one for 10-45nm. I suspect the Pro Tools one is inaccurate due to finding bearing binding and wear on linkages after following the rating exactly.

[adrenalated]

MRP and DVO are apparently both making coils that will fit shorter-travel trunnion frames now... makes me *really* tempted to get one for my '18 Trance.

The DPX2 on it, like all Fox suspension I've had, has been completely underwhelming. Had a CC DB Inline coil on my old Reign and that shock had *really* nice performance.

Both (MRP & DVO) seem to come with a type of "climb switch" as well, which should be nice for the pedaling. Does the Hazzard on your Patrol have that switch?

Yeah, the Hazzard has the climb switch. It definitely firms things up... too much for Front Range climbing IMO. I want the suspension to be a little active for climbing techy trails. If I ever find myself climbing a jeep road or something I'll for sure lock it out.
The climb switch on the Hazzard is pretty similar to going all the way closed on the DPX2 3-position switch. It'd be nice to have something in the middle.
Also, worth noting I haven't dicked with the LSC on the Hazzard at all yet. It's very likely I could get it to pedal better by doing that.

[sethschmautz]

One more question for the experts, since I don't want to post on the dumpster fire torque wrench thread.

If you assume your torque wrench is slightly inaccurate, how much should you undershoot the torque specifications by to ensure you don't overtorque? I assume that you want to under torque, since over torquing can increase wear on bearings/pivots and make it harder to disassemble. What I've been doing is match the torque rating up to like 3nm. Up to 10nm, I undershoot by 0.5. Between 10-15, I undershoot by 1nm. Up to 45, I undershoot by 5nm. If it matters, I'm using a Pro Tools (Shimano) mini torque wrench for 1-15nm, and a Park one for 10-45nm. I suspect the Pro Tools one is inaccurate due to finding bearing binding and wear on linkages after following the rating exactly.

Torque wrenches can be high or low. The harbor freight wrench I bought was dead on until it stopped working completely.

Our shop has a calibrator that I check my wrenches on occasionally. I have no idea where else would have one that would check it for you, but finding a local resource for this would be perfect.

Seth

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

[toast2266]

One more question for the experts, since I don't want to post on the dumpster fire torque wrench thread.

If you assume your torque wrench is slightly inaccurate, how much should you undershoot the torque specifications by to ensure you don't overtorque? I assume that you want to under torque, since over torquing can increase wear on bearings/pivots and make it harder to disassemble. What I've been doing is match the torque rating up to like 3nm. Up to 10nm, I undershoot by 0.5. Between 10-15, I undershoot by 1nm. Up to 45, I undershoot by 5nm. If it matters, I'm using a Pro Tools (Shimano) mini torque wrench for 1-15nm, and a Park one for 10-45nm. I suspect the Pro Tools one is inaccurate due to finding bearing binding and wear on linkages after following the rating exactly.

You're gonna need to take that question over to MTBR.

[XXX-er]

Well call me cra-cra but I believe that America really did land on the moon and that a torque wrench will be accurate

[rideit]

One more question for the experts, since I don't want to post on the dumpster fire torque wrench thread.

If you assume your torque wrench is slightly inaccurate, how much should you undershoot the torque specifications by to ensure you don't overtorque? I assume that you want to under torque, since over torquing can increase wear on bearings/pivots and make it harder to disassemble. What I've been doing is match the torque rating up to like 3nm. Up to 10nm, I undershoot by 0.5. Between 10-15, I undershoot by 1nm. Up to 45, I undershoot by 5nm. If it matters, I'm using a Pro Tools (Shimano) mini torque wrench for 1-15nm, and a Park one for 10-45nm. I suspect the Pro Tools one is inaccurate due to finding bearing binding and wear on linkages after following the rating exactly.

PM Pauldotcom

[Andeh]

I guess I deserved that.