Ask the experts

[zion zig zag]

I know it's been discussed before, but Fox 36 setup guides....whats with the starting pressures, who is that recco for? I'm currently 18 psi under what they say I should start at. And that gets me near the recommended sag. So how am I supposed to have 85 psi AND have 20% sag.

I wonder how many people out there just use the guide for setup and have absolute garbage feeling suspension.

[XXX-er]

I look at the amount of the fork travel I use according to the tell-tale O-ring so with my ZEB I'm running a lot less psi than the suggested pressure for where I ride and I use all but 3/4" of the travel

[toast2266]

I know it's been discussed before, but Fox 36 setup guides....whats with the starting pressures, who is that recco for? I'm currently 18 psi under what they say I should start at. And that gets me near the recommended sag. So how am I supposed to have 85 psi AND have 20% sag.

I wonder how many people out there just use the guide for setup and have absolute garbage feeling suspension.

Do you have 20% sag while standing with weight on the bars?

18psi under recommended sounds low. I find fox's recommended pressures to be pretty close. I'm usually like 2-3psi above what they say and in the general ballpark of their recommendations for the damper settings.

[g_man80]

As bikes get more and more slack, measuring fork sag becomes inaccurate and difficult to repeat. I no longer get too hung up on the actual sag measurement and prefer to use the manufacturer’s recommended PSI as a starting point and fine tune from there.

[jdadour]

As bikes get more and more slack, measuring fork sag becomes inaccurate and difficult to repeat. I no longer get too hung up on the actual sag measurement and prefer to use the manufacturer’s guide as a starting point and fine tune from there.

True. And one of the things I swear by now in regards to suspension tuning is a simple quote I heard from Steve at Vorsprung:

"If it feels better, its better. If it feels worse, its worse."

[rideit]

True. However, felling ‘better’ with a quick boing-boing on the shop floor is very different than feeling better going Mach-chicken on some sketchy rocks and g-outs!

(Obvious statement is obvious)

[singlesline]

I may give them a try, but I'm trying to find some first-hand reports because the similar pricing to Optical Factor makes me nervous. I strongly suspect that what I really want (big lenses with correction built in) is either impossible or nearly so, but if I have to deal with corrective inserts it may mean I need main lenses that don't curve so much to allow the inserts to be closer.

Zenni is good overall, but most of their "sports" glasses are insert-based...and inserts suck, especially cheap inserts.

I've had some success by just looking for non-sport glasses that are big and have an appropriate shape. Although by the time you add features like a colored mirror flash, polarization, etc., the price is no longer dirt cheap.

Although I just saw this one:
https://www.zennioptical.com/p/mens-...?skuId=1143121

It looks to be a "Sport" frame where the lenses themselves are RX rather than using inserts. I don't love the look of it, but I'm tempted to try a pair. edit: oof, they only let you use fancy lenses with them which means $200 for a transitions, $150 for polarized with a mirror tint which starts to put you in SportRX territory.

[Andeh]

As bikes get more and more slack, measuring fork sag becomes inaccurate and difficult to repeat. I no longer get too hung up on the actual sag measurement and prefer to use the manufacturer’s recommended PSI as a starting point and fine tune from there.

This.

And I bounce on the fork as hard as possible while holding the front brake in my garage. If it bottoms, it needs more air. If it has about 15-20mm travel left, it's safe to ride. More than that, I let a bit of air out.

[toast2266]

This.

And I bounce on the fork as hard as possible while holding the front brake in my garage. If it bottoms, it needs more air. If it has about 15-20mm travel left, it's safe to ride. More than that, I let a bit of air out.

Yup. The "roll forward a bit and slam on the fork while grabbing a handful of front brake" test is critical to proper fork setup.

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[SchralphMacchio]

Yup. The "roll forward a bit and slam on the fork while grabbing a handful of front brake" test is critical to proper fork setup.

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It seems like Fox and RS forks nowadays are tuned to be much more resistant to front brake dive even with LSC fully opened than forks from several years ago. Am I hallucinating here? In the past few months I’ve been on a Lyrik Ultimate, Pike Ultimate, 36 PE, and 38 Factory, and it just seems like a thing.

I’m not sure I’m down with that, it’s like, if you give me one or two more clicks where I can trade a little bit of brake dive and get back super plush initial stroke over rubble, I’d be pretty happy to at least have that option.

[zion zig zag]

Do you have 20% sag while standing with weight on the bars?

18psi under recommended sounds low. I find fox's recommended pressures to be pretty close. I'm usually like 2-3psi above what they say and in the general ballpark of their recommendations for the damper settings.

I watched several videos on how to measure sag and none showed anyone standing with weight on the bars. But sag for a fork seems hit or miss to me anyway. I can try and duplicate results from the same position and get different enough measurements to make be believe sag isn’t accurate.

But you’re seriously over psi for what they suggest? I can’t imagine I’d have any small bump compliance if I was at 88 psi, and I’d never even come close to using full travel unless I was dropping huge to flat. I’d settled at 68 psi, down from the recommended 85. And the Shockwiz still says I’m a few pounds over ideal pressure? I’m also pretty much wide open on HSC and maybe halfway closed on LSC.

Also, if I put 100% of my weight on the front wheel with brake applied, I get about 2/3rds of the way through travel. If I get up some steam and weight the front and grab brake, I have an inch or so of travel left.

[toast2266]

I watched several videos on how to measure sag and none showed anyone standing with weight on the bars. But sag for a fork seems hit or miss to me anyway. I can try and duplicate results from the same position and get different enough measurements to make be believe sag isn’t accurate.

But you’re seriously over psi for what they suggest? I can’t imagine I’d have any small bump compliance if I was at 88 psi, and I’d never even come close to using full travel unless I was dropping huge to flat. I’d settled at 68 psi, down from the recommended 85. And the Shockwiz still says I’m a few pounds over ideal pressure? I’m also pretty much wide open on HSC and maybe halfway closed on LSC.

Also, if I put 100% of my weight on the front wheel with brake applied, I get about 2/3rds of the way through travel. If I get up some steam and weight the front and grab brake, I have an inch or so of travel left.

I don't usually measure sag on a fork, but when I do, I'll usually do it in a "descending" position. So standing, with weight somewhat forward. Bounce the bike a bit in that position, let it settle, then check where sag is.

For me personally (170-175ish lbs riding weight), I run a 36 at about 84-86 psi with 1 volume reducer and usually end up somewhere in the middle on compression settings. I usually bottom it out (soft bottom, not a full on clunk) a couple of times per ride, which feels like as good an indicator on air pressure as anything.

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[zion zig zag]

I think you are riding much, much harder than me. I’m 165-170 and I’m not bottoming out at 68 psi. Grip2 damper?

I understand how speed and terrain would require higher pressures at our weight, but I can’t see how’d you’d get any low speed small bump compliance at all.


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[toast2266]

Yeah, grip 2.

I guess I dunno. I find myself reasonably close to recommended pressures on pretty much any fork from rockshox or fox. I think the zeb is the only fork that I was maybe a bit off from recommended (but that was a couple years ago on the first gen zeb.)

Also worth noting that going softer doesn't always result in better small bump sensitivity. You end up riding deeper in the travel where the spring rate is ramping up more, which can actually make the fork feel more harsh.

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[zion zig zag]

Yeah, grip 2.

I guess I dunno. I find myself reasonably close to recommended pressures on pretty much any fork from rockshox or fox. I think the zeb is the only fork that I was maybe a bit off from recommended (but that was a couple years ago on the first gen zeb.)

Also worth noting that going softer doesn't always result in better small bump sensitivity. You end up riding deeper in the travel where the spring rate is ramping up more, which can actually make the fork feel more harsh.

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So, to continue my hand wringing over this....I spent a lot of time on google and it seems like over recommended pressure is less common than under recommended pressure. But since I don't trust randos on the internet, I need 10 people to weigh in here and tell us who the outlier is .

[El Chupacabra]

If you add or remove volume spacers (tokens), that affects the pressure needed to give a desired feel on the fork (firmer or plusher).

My setup take: I prefer RockShox over Fox generally, and I tend to want the fork to feel supportive - - I don't like brake dive. Also, I don't subscribe to the idea that I should be using all the suspension travel on every ride. I generally don't want the fork to ramp up a ton through its travel. I've played with adding tokens, and don't like it - - generally either leave the stock number of tokens, or remove one and increase psi.

[Spencer123]

One more for 2-5 psi over rec on fox 36 factory. I did the classic add tokens remove pressure and it felt worse and worse, now at one token, more pressure, minimal damping and it rides great.

[zion zig zag]

I did the classic add tokens remove pressure and it felt worse and worse, now at one token, more pressure, minimal damping and it rides great.

This is where I ended up on my last 36 (It was 130mm travel, new is 160mm). I felt like with the factory number of tokens I had to run pressure so low to try and use the travel that I just wallowed in the mid stroke all of the time. I'm still less than 10 rides in on the new fork and I haven't even opened it up to see how many tokens are in there so I'll do some more futzing around this weekend. Strange though that the Shockwiz kept wanting me to lower pressure and add tokens, I knew that didn't seem right.

[grskier]

Yeah, grip 2.

I guess I dunno. I find myself reasonably close to recommended pressures on pretty much any fork from rockshox or fox. I think the zeb is the only fork that I was maybe a bit off from recommended (but that was a couple years ago on the first gen zeb.)

Also worth noting that going softer doesn't always result in better small bump sensitivity. You end up riding deeper in the travel where the spring rate is ramping up more, which can actually make the fork feel more harsh.

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This concept is very difficult for some to understand. It came up a lot with the rear shock on gen 1 megatowers.

[Jtlange]

I am of the opinion that due to tolerance stackups in the manufacturing of any brand of fork there are pretty big differences from fork to fork before we even get to rider differences that make it impossible to make a solid recommendation over the internet past three simple things for me in this order if your fork feels like garbage:

1. Check to see if there is fluid in your fork
2. Check to see if your air spring is clogged with grease
3. Check to see if your bushings need burnishing

Ive reshimmed a few Grip2 dampers for myself and friends that has eliminated the preload on the HSC that has made them far more smooth with more difference in the clicks on the Damping than previous. This was also after burnishing some pretty tight bushings.

I have an excellent copy of a Fox 38 right now that is the best fork I have ever owned, but I did some pretty involved work to get it there.

That being said, I also run more than 5% under the recommended air pressure from Fox, but I use my damping to keep things under control. This previously was not the case with previous Fox stuff where I ran it higher than recommended air pressure and very little damping. Both were fine, I have just found the under + damping works better on this current fork.

[toast2266]

^^^ agreed that there are good forks and bad forks, and it makes a very noticeable difference in small bump compliance.

I don't find it makes much difference in air pressure settings though. For medium to large impacts, the tolerance issues you mentioned become a lot less relevant (unless the fork's *really* bad). So if you're running less pressure to chase small bump compliance, you still don't get great compliance because the fork is just sticky, but now it also gets crushed in bigger stuff.

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[Dromond]

[QUOTE=Jtlange;7095609
3. Check to see if your bushings need burnishing

.[/QUOTE]

I can confirm that you can get a fork with tight bushings that will never work right until it is fixed. I got a new 36 in 2021 with the worst small bump compliance. I tested it by taking out the damper/spring so I could slide the lowers on stanchions without resistance and lo and behold they were tight AF. I sent it back to Fox warranty, they sized the bushings and it came back riding great. I’ve since had a friend get a 36 with the same problem. QC from factory can be really shit, but at least the warranty department techs seem to know what they are doing.

[Ottime]

I'm sure this has been answered before, but I have not found where....

My GX chain is stretched and needs replacing. It is fully 1% I think, so believe the cassette also needs to be replaced. I have the parts and can do the work. My questions -

How long can I ride the bike before replacing? Am I destroying the chainring at this point? Shifting is still good, except when shifting up from 10th to 11th I can not get it to land on 11th. Next shift brings it right up to 12, but no problem then going down to 11. Otherwise, still shifting as smoothly as my GX ever has.

I'm thinking of riding until it wears more on the cassette, but then afraid I destroy the chain ring.

Or do I just replace the chain and see if the cassette is still good. Or do I just do the entire job before I read this next week?

[jackstraw]

I'm sure this has been answered before, but I have not found where....

My GX chain is stretched and needs replacing. It is fully 1% I think, so believe the cassette also needs to be replaced. I have the parts and can do the work. My questions -

How long can I ride the bike before replacing? Am I destroying the chainring at this point? Shifting is still good, except when shifting up from 10th to 11th I can not get it to land on 11th. Next shift brings it right up to 12, but no problem then going down to 11. Otherwise, still shifting as smoothly as my GX ever has.

I'm thinking of riding until it wears more on the cassette, but then afraid I destroy the chain ring.

Or do I just replace the chain and see if the cassette is still good. Or do I just do the entire job before I read this next week?

SC factory demo sale today. Buy a new bike. [emoji16]

[XXX-er]

If you waited till the chain is that worn and it might have fuckered the rear cassette also chain and chain ring

so just replacing the chain only the new chain it might skip in places the old chain did not

you could just keep riding it until its more screwed and count on replacing everything including the chainring

If its SRAM the front chain ring is not an expensive part to replace