Electric car thread

[Dromond]

(This was a repost)

[LongShortLong]

There were a lot of eTravelers late for Thanksgiving dinner this year..

Kettleman City, CA I-5

Shoulda gotta an ICE rental for that drive

[4matic]

Audi E-tron and Jag flopped. Poor sales.
Tesla is running circles around rivals like Audi and Jaguar, and battery range is only one of the biggest reasons why

This year, Jaguar's I-Pace SUV and Audi's e-tron SUV have sold an average of around 217 and 628 units per month in the US,

[jackstraw]

Sony?

https://www.motor1.com/news/391401/s...s-concept-car/

[Bobby Stainless]

Audi E-tron and Jag flopped. Poor sales.
Tesla is running circles around rivals like Audi and Jaguar, and battery range is only one of the biggest reasons why

This year, Jaguar's I-Pace SUV and Audi's e-tron SUV have sold an average of around 217 and 628 units per month in the US,

Enter the Porsche Taycan.

[LightRanger]

If that Fisker Ocean crossover that was just announced can actually meet their price target, it may do well. Especially if AWD.

In related news, check this out. Obviously it was only a matter of time...
https://ww.electrek.co/2020/01/06/wa...tesla-nissan/#

[plugboots]

In related news, check this out. Obviously it was only a matter of time...
https://ww.electrek.co/2020/01/06/wa...tesla-nissan/#

Dang, that's cool. IHNI
Oh, and tank turn:

[PB]

I'm as skeptical as most, but dang - that's undeniably cool. Both the the tank turn, and the EV running your house during an outage! Seems like we're getting pretty darn close - hope the world doesn't go up in flames, or crumble into a pile of rubble, in the near future.

[bodywhomper]

It’d be a fun experience in an icy empty parking lot!!

I’d like to see that “tank turn” done on dry pavement.

[Gcooker]

It’d be a fun experience in an icy empty parking lot!!

I’d like to see that “tank turn” done on dry pavement.

With the weight of that thing it would roast the tires off in no time.... paging Ken Block.

[iceman]

Seems like it wouldn't bother the tires at all if done gently.

[plugboots]

Dang. AWD 304 hp Nissan Leaf. Coming next year.
https://www.motor1.com/news/378219/n...ectric-motors/

[Norseman]

Dang. AWD 304 hp Nissan Leaf. Coming next year.
https://www.motor1.com/news/378219/n...ectric-motors/

500 lb-ft torque!

[LightRanger]

Dang. AWD 304 hp Nissan Leaf. Coming next year.
https://www.motor1.com/news/378219/n...ectric-motors/

Where do you see a release date?

If they can get it under $40k with at least ~200 mi of range, that may be my next vehicle.

[muted]

Dang. AWD 304 hp Nissan Leaf. Coming next year.
https://www.motor1.com/news/378219/n...ectric-motors/

"Even though the sporty Leaf is not going into production...."

I don't think it is coming soon, did I read it right?

[LightRanger]

That's what I got. Maybe plugboots was assuming they were going to offer it because it's a test vehicle for their next-gen EV which is due to be released soon?

Hell, I'd take AWD with less HP and torque than the concept car but decent range in a fun EV that's cheaper than a Model 3 LR AWD. Seems like a no-brainer for Nissan and Chevy to make AWD Leafs and Bolts.

[adrenalated]

"Even though the sporty Leaf is not going into production...."

I don't think it is coming soon, did I read it right?

You read it right. This is a concept/test car. Not a production vehicle.

[LightRanger]

So it looks like its a testbed for a new dual-motor system that *is* likely to go into the Nissan Ariya Crossover that's due out in 2021.

But the HP and torque specs will not necessarily be the same.

[plugboots]

Oops, sorry about the AWD Leaf coming to the US. I obviously was on drugs.

[frorider]

Yeah Nissan stopped doing interesting cars a while back. Although Godzilla lives on.

[adrenalated]

OK, I have a little over 5k miles on my 2019 Chevrolet Bolt now so can share some more thoughts on the actual car and EVs in general.

First off, after driving an EV daily for a few months, I can confidently say that more people should be driving EVs. Ignoring the environmental arguments entirely, they are legitimately better for the majority of driving that most people do.

-they are much quieter and more pleasant than an ICE car. Unlike an ICE car, there is zero vibration, which you never realized was annoying until it's gone.

-one pedal driving is the shit in traffic or in the city. You have no idea how annoying it is to jump between the gas and brake, until you don't have to anymore. This coming from someone that grew up racing and LOVES manual transmission cars on a twisty mountain road. I've always conceded that auto transmissions were better than manual for stop and go driving but one pedal EV driving is a whole 'nother level of better.
I'll note that it's technically possible to have one pedal driving on an ICE car through electronics but I'm not aware of any that do
I'll also note that you definitely want to turn one pedal mode OFF when driving in the snow

-no throttle lag, ever. I didn't realize how much lag there actually is in even a normally aspirated, manual transmission ICE car until I jumped in the EV. You touch the throttle, you get power instantly. And speaking of power...

-generally speaking, EVs punch way above their class in terms of power, particularly torque, which in practical terms means your ability to accelerate. I'm not saying that my Bolt compares favorably to a Camero. I'm saying when you compare it to other vehicles in the same class - affordable compact hatchbacks - it's way more powerful, and in a way that's actually useful, like making a move into the left lane on a congested freeway or to make a pass on a two lane highway.

-you start every morning fully fueled, meaning you never have to go to the gas station to make it to work when you're already late. "Man I really wish I spent more time at the gas station" - said no one ever. Plugging in every evening and unplugging every morning quickly becomes habit and takes 10 seconds to do.

-heaters blow hot right away without waiting for anything to warm up, and every EV has remote start because you want to be able to warm up the vehicle while still connected to shore power

So what's the downside? Charging infrastructure for long trips, and choice of models. I don't think cost because for most people that can afford to buy a new car anyway, once you factor in the tax credits, discounts/actual selling price offered by the manufacturer, and compare the creature comforts and features apples to apples, drastically reduced maintenance costs, and reduced fuel costs, EVs really aren't much different in terms of actual price than comparable ICE cars. I think that's particularly true because most people think they need much more range than they actually do, which I'll get to in a bit.

Charging infrastructure for long trips: this is still a thing, and one that's unlikely to be solved in the short term without a massive investment in infrastructure by our government. There's just not enough chargers in not enough places, right now. It's not impossible to do long trips but the best solution right now is to still own an ICE car. Most households with more than one person also own more than one vehicle so other than needing to get over the idea of "my car" and "her car" this problem is already solved. Daily driving I commute 100mi in the EV and my wife commutes 7mi in the Forester. If I'm going skiing without her, I drive the Forester and she drives the Bolt. If we're going somewhere for the weekend we take the gas guzzling Lifted Tundra Camper, which is a luxury - we could easily manage with just the Bolt and the Forester.

Choice of models: improving, but there's still only a handful of choices, and I get that. Again I think people need to think about what they ACTUALLY need. You don't need two big ass SUVs to ferry the kids around unless you're Morman and have like 10 kids. You need one, which can be your ICE car. You use that when you actually need the space. Your other car can and should be a smaller EV, that's what you drive when you have 3-4 people and not a ton of stuff. My brother-in-law has 4 kids and owns a 3-row SUV and honestly he could easily run a Bolt or a Leaf for his family's second car. A FWD EV is also much better in the snow than a FWD ICE car due to the weight and weight distribution, making AWD/4WD much less important.

Range: I think most people think they need much more range than they actually do. Yes, things like driving at highway speed, cold weather, snow tires, etc. will negatively affect the actual range. But that's fine because you probably don't actually drive that much. I drive 100mi every day, sometimes up to 130ish if I detour out to go mountain biking or to an event after work. My real world range on the Bolt has been somewhere around 185mi for the way I drive, my commute, and the weather this winter. I average 3.0mi/kWh. I've just never had an issue coming close to running out of battery and I bet I drive more than the vast majority of people daily. Again, you have to remember that you're starting every day fully fueled. For most people, a lower range, cheaper EV like the Nissan Leaf, VW e-Golf, Hyundai Ioniq, or even Mini Cooper SE would be totally fine and you can buy one of those for probably $20-25k. If you do drive as much as me, the Chevy Bolt, Nissan Leaf Plus, Hyundai Kona EV, Kia Niro EV, or base model Tesla are great options.

OK, so the actual car itself.

Pros:
-all the EV things above
-it's spacious and has plenty of cargo space for a daily driver. 4 adults fit comfortably even really tall people
-the tech features are great for a vehicle priced as it is. Android Auto on the big touchscreen is great, and all the controls are well laid out and intuitive with a good combination of touchscreen/electronic menus and physical buttons. A few things are done differently than traditional cars but generally better (for example, the climate control)
-this is subjective, but I like the appearance of and quality of the interior finishes.
-sound system is good for a stock system, although I'll probably replace speakers at some point (which is normal for me)

Cons:
-it's kinda ugly from the outside, too egg shaped and tall. Again, subjective
-too tall. I'm 5'9" and with the seat dropped as low as it goes I have like 8" of space above my head. I get that I'm not tall but the roof is excessively high
-the seating position is too high for my tastes and the steering wheel doesn't telescope out far enough. Again preference, but you sit in the Bolt more like an SUV than a car.
-the suspension is too soft. Punching the throttle with any steering input gives you a disturbing amount of torque steer and the front end wants to wander instead of staying planted.
-I have the LT trim with all the packages and the driver aids are somewhat underwhelming, especially compared to how good ProPilot is in the Nissan Leaf. Everything works fine, but this car really should have adaptive cruise control at a minimum. It also really should offer power seats as an option.

All in all the Bolt is a great car and they are readily available and Chevy dealers are practically giving them away.

[Garbowski]

Thanks for the excellent writeup adrenalated.

I've driven a Tesla S and was suprememly impressed with the instant power and the insane amount of it. To be honest it's a bit scary to think of the 'average' driver being able to accelerate that fast.

A PHEV that can run on all electric around town and go into hybrid mode for longer trips seems just about perfect. I'm looking hard at the Mitsubishi Outlander...just wish it was a Toyota.

[plugboots]

A PHEV that can run on all electric around town and go into hybrid mode for longer trips seems just about perfect. I'm looking hard at the Mitsubishi Outlander...just wish it was a Toyota.

So NOT the new plug in hybrid RAV 4?

[Garbowski]

So NOT the new plug in hybrid RAV 4?

I thought the RAV4 was coming in 2021. There are some
other SUV/crossover PHEVs already out, I’m sure everyone has one planned.

[El Chupacabra]

I thought the RAV4 was coming in 2021. There are some
other SUV/crossover PHEVs already out, I’m sure everyone has one planned.

That RAV4 is a 2021 model, reportedly available in summer 2020. I'm interested in it so am following stories on it.