Results 51 to 75 of 75
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05-15-2019, 08:06 PM #51Registered User
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I just kinda assumed one would know what drawfiling is but ... fucking dentists eh
Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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05-16-2019, 04:59 AM #52
If anyone is confused about filing direction--for ski files that are held by single angle or multiple angle file holders, push or pull, but only in the direction indicated by the little, hard to read arrow on the edge of the file. For files with a tang, push away from the tang. You could hold the file backwards--tang end away from you--and pull, but awkward. Pushing or pulling a file in the wrong direction--whether drawing it back after a proper stroke or just filing in the wrong direction--dulls the file.
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05-16-2019, 08:49 AM #53Registered User
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I’ll repeat the only thing that does any sort of damage to a ski by going tail to tip is scraping.. you can brush a ski with the gnarliest steel brush from tail to tip and it won’t do any damage or create a slower ski etc. I used to have to prep WC speed skis and part of the initial prep was brushing them backwards with a steel brush. That being said tip to tail is commonplace when brushing. Waxing it makes zero difference.
Always pull the file. Clearly you need to make sure the file is oriented correctly but I would have thought that would be common sense. Pushing the file is a recipe for cutting the shit out of yourself and just being inefficient. I’ve probably prepped/tuned more than 5k skis in my day and never once had the file slip and cut my hand. If you’re having to press that hard the file is dull. You either need a new one or you should break the end off the file to access the sharper teeth. You can break a file quite a few times until you’re down to say the last 2” of teeth. This only applies to those using side edge guides.
When you put a ski in a vice on its side base is always facing away from you.
For those looking to keep their scrapers nice and sharp buy some drywall sanding screen and tape it down to your bench. Run the scraper back and forth. Amazing how easy it it to quickly sharpen it and cut your scraping time in half.
Yes you can maintain your edges with diamond stones. However there’s nothing that can replicate what you clan accomplish with a file. Depending on a lot of variables I’d break out a file every 2-3 uses if the snow is really hard. Stone in between. You would have to file the shit out of your skis 4-5 times a week in order to file through the edge. Only time I’ve ever seen that is athletes at the highest level having their skis tuned almost every day by a technician.
Increasing the side edge bevel does not make them “sharper”. You can create higher edge angles on harder snow with more side edge bevel. They also dull faster. 1-2* side bevel is fine for anything other than stuff that’s sub 80 and dedicated for groomers.
If you’re skiing 110+ skis all day in soft snow it almost doesn’t matter what your edges look like. Just as long as their dull in the rocketed sections and have plenty of base bevel.
I ran the race room at Volkl when I first graduated college. Had to tune/prep/grind hundreds and hundreds of skis for athletes of the highest level, magazine tests, trade fairs, etc. 11 summers between mammoth and Hood tuning a crazy amount of skis by hand every day. Prepping my demo fleet by hand every year for the last 17 years. (80-100 pairs usually). The guy that taught me everything I know won Olympic and World Championship medals as a technician on the WC and now runs one of the premier tuning shops on the east coast.
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05-16-2019, 10:49 AM #54
Pushing a file is called straight filing. It is no more/less efficient than draw filing.
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05-16-2019, 10:54 AM #55Registered User
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so what exactly does scraping in the wrong direction do, i'm assuming something to do with microscopic hairs of P-tex and were you able to prove this in speed tests?
There was a rule in 1st year shop class about which hand the tang goes in, left for pulling or if you are going to push the file ( and make the world stop turning ) tang in the right hand, Altho on-line filing tutorials talk about draw filing both pushing & pulling If you were pushing the file it wouldn't technicaly be draw filfing, ?Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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05-16-2019, 11:23 AM #56
remember you don't tune since you only ski pow, so all that info is irrelevant.
But yes, reverse scrape tail to tip can serve to pull up ptex and create more microhairs which create drag.
Rec ski edges don't necessilarly need to be sharp, but it sure helps if they are smooth.
Especially if you enjoy trying to go faster than gravity.Move upside and let the man go through...
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05-16-2019, 11:33 AM #57Registered User
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Yeah scraping the wrong way causes damage to the p-Tex base and could cause the hairs (or whatever you want to call them) to face the wrong direction, essentially slowing the ski down. The guy I learned from was looking at bases through a microscope. That’s all I know.
You file pushers have fun pushing.
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05-16-2019, 12:24 PM #58Registered User
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Hardly irreverent actualy cuz once a year we put on skin suits and drink massive quantities of beer at the Shussboomer citizen downhill, this year was the 35th annual and due to giving a fuck about wax ( an 80$ piece of 0 to plus 10 tribloc ) for a change I managed to win the 60+ class on a rather short set of AtomicRedster Cameltoe FIS GS skis, besides the touring I was also the oldest person in the slush cup by a good 20 yars ... gotta do it all eh
Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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05-16-2019, 05:06 PM #59watch out for snakes
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05-16-2019, 05:36 PM #60
Fortunately, I can do both. Pushing might technically be more dangerous. People should do what they are comfortable with. But to say "always pull" is just wrong. Just like world renowned life coach 'Dirty' Harry Callahan instructs, "a man's gotta know his limitations"
In all seriousness though. Most of us do not have a WC tuning/prep bench @ our disposal. I gotta make my shit happen in less than ideal circumstances. I gotta do what I gotta do(viceless, benchless for example). I, like you, have also tuned thousands of skis(my tech days are over). High production shop, but we hand finished every ski. Tuned plenty 'o race skis too. Granted, they were not WC skis, but not sure how germaine that is to the situation as 99.9% of the skiing public would be totally outgunned by a WC tune/race skis. Hell, I can't remember what the machine/procedure was called, but our shop even had a little machine that would cut a slight groove in the edge about as long as the boot/binding system. Doesn't mean I wanted it cuz it was 'race' tech.
Everything else you said I agree with
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05-16-2019, 07:32 PM #61Registered User
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I heard of that ^^ a ski bud told me he was trying to market that shit back in the day nobody was interested
Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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05-16-2019, 07:57 PM #62
Well, he made at least 1 sale
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05-17-2019, 06:49 AM #63
My skis must all be broken. Amazed I can get from the lift to the bar
If youre gonna talk microscopes and microhairs on bases, at least admit that any difference is nullified after a couple runs.
Which might matter if we we are prepping for a race and the ski needs to perform optimally the second it hits the snow. But does that describe the people here?
Your universal truth applies to your universe. If your instructions are limited to sub-80 race skis, say that. The tune on your 78mm redster has nothin to do with a 108 freestyle ski. Do those racers go downhill backwards? I forget.
Pick any discipline and the same applies. Do the same margins apply to a full carbon road bike and a full suspension 29er? Does a formula 1 wrench tell weekend rock crawlers they’re doing it wrong? Does an orthopedic surgeon tell a neurosurgeon how to cut bone?
Those of you that have tuned thousands of skis, I respect your experience. I have no doubt it’s invaluable in your field. But like, awareness.
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05-17-2019, 08:06 AM #64
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05-17-2019, 08:07 AM #65
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05-17-2019, 08:28 AM #66Registered User
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05-17-2019, 08:41 AM #67
Unintended positive consequence of skiing lots of gravel was a pro level base structure and edge detune for soft, moist/wet snow. To get the hairs off, just finish with a few laps down a pure sand pitch; buffs the base nice and smooth.
Master of mediocrity.
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05-18-2019, 02:22 PM #68Registered User
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Without knowing the original bevel on a pair of all purpose touring skis can I just a run a file at 90 to get slightly sharper edges? Or is this a waste of time (I don't care if my edges are super sharp) and I should just deburr with a diamond or gummi stone?
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05-18-2019, 02:27 PM #69Registered User
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05-18-2019, 02:55 PM #70Registered User
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I would just go 90 degree but then I always go 90 degree, you can see how much material the file is taking off which will tell you lts about the angles by using machinist die on the edge
also known as a sharpie
do you have a guide & file? Back in the day before I had a file holder I would just clamp a file to a piece of 2x4 with a 90 degree edge using a c-clampLee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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05-18-2019, 03:16 PM #71Registered User
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File, no guide. Your described solution was kinda what I was thinking, hence why I was hoping to go for 90.
These skis have around 200 days on them without a professional tune. Originally a 1 degree side, but I doubt I Will notice a difference. Waxing makes more of a difference but wondering if doing something to the edges will help skiing grabby, hard wind slabs
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05-18-2019, 03:25 PM #72
Without knowing what "no professional tune in 200 days" means, and given the basic nature of your question, I'd start from square 1 and get a true bar on the base to see what I'm up against. Heck! I do that with new skis.
Squirrelly bottoms make for squirrelly skis.
None of this is to dismiss either the Q&P or poor man's guide for the side edge.
Everyone wants to take shortcuts. You have all Summer and most of the Fall to develop your tuning chops. Just do it.
... ThomGalibier Designcrafting technology in service of music
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05-18-2019, 04:05 PM #73Registered User
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Thanks, guess I meant they have never been on a basegrinder. I had a good system prior where I could make most things work with a ptex gun, an old base grinder, and a gummi but don't have access base grinder anymore (live on a remote island / hit a lot of rocks / no shops in the area). I'll work on my file, ptex, and waxing skills though!
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05-25-2019, 06:25 AM #74features a sintered base
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A few guys like couchsending that IMO should be highlighted in this thread, just in case some have missed it.
Yes, I saw someone mention tip to tail for waxing and couldn't figure out why they thought it would matter. Obviously you should wax in both directions while you're heating the base/distributing the wax (so it's more efficient). I actually always finish with a final tip to tail pass, but that's simply due to a little OCD on my part.
Curious, what was the point of the initial steel brush tail to tip work? Just opening up the structure more? I've never done that.
Always pull the file. Clearly you need to make sure the file is oriented correctly but I would have thought that would be common sense. Pushing the file is a recipe for cutting the shit out of yourself and just being inefficient. I’ve probably prepped/tuned more than 5k skis in my day and never once had the file slip and cut my hand. If you’re having to press that hard the file is dull. You either need a new one or you should break the end off the file to access the sharper teeth. You can break a file quite a few times until you’re down to say the last 2” of teeth. This only applies to those using side edge guides.
When you put a ski in a vice on its side base is always facing away from you.
For those looking to keep their scrapers nice and sharp buy some drywall sanding screen and tape it down to your bench. Run the scraper back and forth. Amazing how easy it it to quickly sharpen it and cut your scraping time in half.
Yes you can maintain your edges with diamond stones. However there’s nothing that can replicate what you clan accomplish with a file. Depending on a lot of variables I’d break out a file every 2-3 uses if the snow is really hard. Stone in between. You would have to file the shit out of your skis 4-5 times a week in order to file through the edge. Only time I’ve ever seen that is athletes at the highest level having their skis tuned almost every day by a technician.
Increasing the side edge bevel does not make them “sharper”. You can create higher edge angles on harder snow with more side edge bevel. They also dull faster. 1-2* side bevel is fine for anything other than stuff that’s sub 80 and dedicated for groomers.
If you’re skiing 110+ skis all day in soft snow it almost doesn’t matter what your edges look like. Just as long as their dull in the rocketed sections and have plenty of base bevel.
I ran the race room at Volkl when I first graduated college. Had to tune/prep/grind hundreds and hundreds of skis for athletes of the highest level, magazine tests, trade fairs, etc. 11 summers between mammoth and Hood tuning a crazy amount of skis by hand every day. Prepping my demo fleet by hand every year for the last 17 years. (80-100 pairs usually). The guy that taught me everything I know won Olympic and World Championship medals as a technician on the WC and now runs one of the premier tuning shops on the east coast.[quote][//quote]
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05-28-2019, 02:20 AM #75
Great info in here.
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