What makes the Dynafit Beast's so terrible?

[DerekPersson]

So, the touring bug has hit me hard as of late. LCC has been my home since winter 10-11, but mostly resort riding with occasional slack-country treks on OG alpine trekkers and p18's. I ski p18's exclusively and have always just loved the security/feel of that binding on the down. However this doesn't obviously bode well with spending considerable time in the BC. That being said, I'm really going to try and dedicate a good amount of time to the BC next winter and that means I need to make some gear changes.

Little info about myself:
6'1, Low 180's, Big Mountain Competitor with a couple top 10's. 3's and backies are about the extent of my trickery. I ski fast, I like mowing down chop and hitting cliffs with speed.

Before anyone says "CAST system", and yes I know all about it, I wanted to hear what some of your experiences may have been with what I keep hearing the 'Awful' Dynafit Beast 16. My understanding so far is that the toe piece (particularly on the first couple model years) had some issues but were addressed in the most recent realease (16-17 I believe?)

I'm just kind of puzzled because I heard Hoji talking about how he's used the Beast 14's exclusively in filming, resort riding etc the last 4 seasons with no issues...and obviously he rips. I know he's a smaller dude at 5'8 150ish, but still, I heard him mentioning in an interview sending things up to 40 feet with speed on the Beast 14's without issue and that is no small impact even for a smaller guy.

I'm also entertaining the Idea of possibly getting into the Hoji Free boot next year with toe lugs but I know those 9523 tour soles aren't compatible with any AFD from the Pivots or any other high-din/trusty alpine binding that I've seen hence furthering my questions about the Beast 16.

Why do they suck so bad? I need to know!

[auvgeek]

Serious question: what DIN do you run on the P18 and (how often) do you pre-release?

[DerekPersson]

Serious question: what DIN do you run on the P18 and (how often) do you pre-release?

I'm typically running around the resort at a 14-15...I've pre-released probably 5 times this season. A couple of these were 4 point landing some 30+ foot airs on firm snow. For the most part, I come out when I should though...

...also on an important note, the aftermarket Vibrams on my Patron Pros are pretty shot. I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of the problem

[ASmileyFace]

Have 175+ days on my beast 14s. Probably 115ish touring exclusively. While I'm not doing 30 foot airs and throwing tricks on my beasts, I ski fast and jump off stuff too.

I personally think they ski well. I can't even really tell you how many times I've pre-released on them over the years, it's probably less than 10. And a couple of those were from user error of having the forward pressure set wrong. They don't feel as secure as a classic pivot, but what tech binding does?

The reason the Beasts suck isn't how they ski, it's just how finicky and over complicated they are. And the Kingpin and Tecton made them obsolete imo. They suck to tour on anything long or flat. There are so many different moving parts to break, I've replaced the heel risers on both heels and the brakes on one. There is also the stupid metal addition to your boot, because the binding will just tear up regular boot plastic. There is a reason dynafit stopped making this binding.

Really it sounds like you are the perfect demographic for the CAST. I've skied with many rippers who use the CAST exclusively and they convinced me that the new system is rad if you're the kind of skier who is sending that hard in the backcountry.

And if you're dedicated to getting a "freeride" tech binding go Kingpin.

[mr_pretzel]

I think if you dont end up going with the hoji free’s (current one’s fit like a bucket and they say the new ones will fit better, but who knows) you should just get a CAST system.

Have you tried on any of the other hybrid boots/beefier touring boots? Lange freetour, tecnica cochise, nordica strider(again sort of a bucket, but probably the best skiing boot), atomix hawx XTD, fischer free, dalbello lupo, roxa R3, etc?

The beasts are heavy anyway so you aren’t saving that much weight and you will feel much more secure.

Also hoji skis so fucking smooth and always lands perfect in trannies that I bet he could ski just a voile strap around the ski.

[XavierD]

As mentioned, Hoji skis incredibly balanced, and is very light weight. Likely wouldn’t have any pre-releases in a P12.

Also as mentioned, the beast offered a very complicated and finicky way of almost solving the tech binding issue of sloppy heel contact; while requiring you to modify your boot in a manor which makes it incompatible with most other bindings. CAST, Kingpin, Tecton, and Shift all completely solve this issue, with out requiring any boot modification. Kingpins came out very quickly after the beast with a relatively simple design which I’m sure made the product designers at Dynafit and Trab feel like the dolts they are for coming up with really complicated tech versions of an alpine heel.

So: Tours like shit, tends to brake, pretty heavy, makes your boots incompatible with many other bindings, skis worse than lighter better touring bindings.

[DerekPersson]

Have 175+ days on my beast 14s. Probably 115ish touring exclusively. While I'm not doing 30 foot airs and throwing tricks on my beasts, I ski fast and jump off stuff too.

I personally think they ski well. I can't even really tell you how many times I've pre-released on them over the years, it's probably less than 10. And a couple of those were from user error of having the forward pressure set wrong. They don't feel as secure as a classic pivot, but what tech binding does?

The reason the Beasts suck isn't how they ski, it's just how finicky and over complicated they are. And the Kingpin and Tecton made them obsolete imo. They suck to tour on anything long or flat. There are so many different moving parts to break, I've replaced the heel risers on both heels and the brakes on one. There is also the stupid metal addition to your boot, because the binding will just tear up regular boot plastic. There is a reason dynafit stopped making this binding.

Really it sounds like you are the perfect demographic for the CAST. I've skied with many rippers who use the CAST exclusively and they convinced me that the new system is rad if you're the kind of skier who is sending that hard in the backcountry.

And if you're dedicated to getting a "freeride" tech binding go Kingpin.

Thanks man. All of that is definitely understandable. I get how the no flat touring mode could get annoying and how if something breaks now it may be hard to find considering they aren't on the market anymore. Thing that worries me about the kingpin is it only goes up to a 13 and I know I would run into issues with that. The CAST system has been in my sights for a couple years now and it just seems like it'll be the overall better choice assuming I don't lured in by the likes of the new Hoji Free tour.

I think if you dont end up going with the hoji free’s (current one’s fit like a bucket and they say the new ones will fit better, but who knows) you should just get a CAST system.

Have you tried on any of the other hybrid boots/beefier touring boots? Lange freetour, tecnica cochise, nordica strider(again sort of a bucket, but probably the best skiing boot), atomix hawx XTD, fischer free, dalbello lupo, roxa R3, etc?

The beasts are heavy anyway so you aren’t saving that much weight and you will feel much more secure.

Also hoji skis so fucking smooth and always lands perfect in trannies that I bet he could ski just a voile strap around the ski.

Hoji is quite smooth for sure. And CAST has been in consideration for a couple seasons now, possibly leading the decision at this point. The two main Boots other than the Hoji in which I've actually had on my feet and liked are the XT LV and Lupo Factory. Having skied in Kryptons and Langes before, I feel personally for touring the XT Free Pro's might have the edge for my feet.
On another note regarding compatibility with high din alpine bindings, if I were to go Hoji Pro, the amount of high-din alpine bindings to fit the iso 9523 touring sole is almost nil. P18s now have gripwalk compatibility which is great but wouldn't (safely) work with the Hoji Frees based on what I've seen, so they're out as an alpine option. The alpine design I do like that the new Hojis would work with is the Tyrolia attack...but its only in the 14 din version. I just don't understand how a company like Tyrolia can make the same toe piece mold in the attack 18 and 14 (minus the metal in the 18) but can't also have the AT AFD on the 16 and 18 din versions as well to accommodate all types of soles. Ugh...compatibility.

[DerekPersson]

As mentioned, Hoji skis incredibly balanced, and is very light weight. Likely wouldn’t have any pre-releases in a P12.

Also as mentioned, the beast offered a very complicated and finicky way of almost solving the tech binding issue of sloppy heel contact; while requiring you to modify your boot in a manor which makes it incompatible with most other bindings. CAST, Kingpin, Tecton, and Shift all completely solve this issue, with out requiring any boot modification. Kingpins came out very quickly after the beast with a relatively simple design which I’m sure made the product designers at Dynafit and Trab feel like the dolts they are for coming up with really complicated tech versions of an alpine heel.

So: Tours like shit, tends to brake, pretty heavy, makes your boots incompatible with many other bindings, skis worse than lighter better touring bindings.

Thanks for the words XD. So it pretty much comes down to overcomplicating something that didn't need to be complicated and too many moving parts (that you basically can't get anymore if something breaks) and mods that will screw your boots up for other bindings.....yeesh. CAST keeps looking better and better.

[waxoff]

Thanks for the words XD. So it pretty much comes down to overcomplicating something that didn't need to be complicated and too many moving parts (that you basically can't get anymore if something breaks) and mods that will screw your boots up for other bindings.....yeesh. CAST keeps looking better and better.

New on the scene BAM Pindung is targeting the same usage. Any beta testers out there?

[auvgeek]

I'm typically running around the resort at a 14-15...I've pre-released probably 5 times this season. A couple of these were 4 point landing some 30+ foot airs on firm snow. For the most part, I come out when I should though...

...also on an important note, the aftermarket Vibrams on my Patron Pros are pretty shot. I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of the problem

Cast seems like the only option if you want to ski in the bc like you do inbounds. If you can stomach dialing it back a bit, maybe the Tecton could work.

[DerekPersson]

Cast seems like the only option if you want to ski in the bc like you do inbounds. If you can stomach dialing it back a bit, maybe the Tecton could work.

Eh, throttling back is hard...especially when something definitely goes and you want it. CAST is definitely taking the cake at this point.

[Gone Skiing]

Want my CAST system? Get you a good deal. I have a 2nd ski kit, too. I think I'm good with all that weight, I'm going all Kingpin next season.

[madriverfreeride]

Pretty sure you can’t use beast bindings on the hoji boot anyway because you can’t remove the rear tech fitting to replace with the beast horse shoe, at least on the hoji tour it had the new masterfit tech fitting that didn’t have a screw in the back and is molded into the boot.

Cast currently has wtr and alpine afds and I think gripwalk ones are in the works. I have jammed my mountain labs in the wtr ones and skied like that a lot but I wouldn’t trust the release.

[XXX-er]

beast is on sale right now at sport conrad

[DerekPersson]

Want my CAST system? Get you a good deal. I have a 2nd ski kit, too. I think I'm good with all that weight, I'm going all Kingpin next season.

I'll keep you posted Tom...it's looking likely that's the route I'll be taking. Hope all is well amigo, cheers!

Pretty sure you can’t use beast bindings on the hoji boot anyway because you can’t remove the rear tech fitting to replace with the beast horse shoe, at least on the hoji tour it had the new masterfit tech fitting that didn’t have a screw in the back and is molded into the boot.

Cast currently has wtr and alpine afds and I think gripwalk ones are in the works. I have jammed my mountain labs in the wtr ones and skied like that a lot but I wouldn’t trust the release.

Found out today via the man himself the Beast is not compatible with the new Free Tours. I'm really stoked on the new boot though and at the moment I'm just hoping the CAST system and the new GW or WTR AFD's will work with the boot.

[Spyderjon]

......Found out today via the man himself the Beast is not compatible with the new Free Tours. I'm really stoked on the new boot though and at the moment I'm just hoping the CAST system and the new GW or WTR AFD's will work with the boot.

The new Hoji Free Tours have a full AT sole so there's not a hope in hell of them fitting in a alpine/GW AFD - well not without a lot of sole grinding. Your best bet would be the WTR AFD but you'll still have to mod the soles.

[DerekPersson]

The new Hoji Free Tours have a full AT sole so there's not a hope in hell of them fitting in a alpine/GW AFD - well not without a lot of sole grinding. Your best bet would be the WTR AFD but you'll still have to mod the soles.

Dang...just what I wasn't hoping to hear. I really want to make the Hoji Free work for me. As someone who's 180-185 lbs, sends cliffs/hits on firm variable snow and skis really fast, I'm just not very confident with the idea of running a 13-din SHIFT or Kingpin.

There are a couple other boots that could work for me but based off of what I've tried on, the Hoji's were by far fitting the best. Everything about that boot, the feel, weight, construction, smoothness of flex etc. is awesome...but they won't work with any binding I trust, ugh. Just feels like a lost cause.

Wonder if we'll ever see 16-din pin hybrid...

[SUPERIOR]

I give a favorable overall review to the Beast 16.

Having used them inbounds Jackson Hole for the 2016-17 winter, I can say they ride hard and feel intuitive.

My only release was when landing squarely on a rock off about a 10 foot drop. I’ve toured Teton pass with them as well, and do not mind the lack of flat tour mode.

My biggest gripe is that stepping into the binding on an angled surface can be tough, especially on firm snow. When your buddies are charging off into the powder, you can get left behind fucking around with this binder.

Still keep them in my arsenal, and have always thought they’d make a good sidecountry or sled skiing binding. However, I now ski Bridger and Big Sky, so not as applicable in my world.


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[SUPERIOR]

Just find an old pair of Vulcans and stick a fresh intuition to ‘em. They are still kicking around.


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[altacoup]

Any touring is going to be a bigger hindrance to charging than the shift binding. I've owned beast 16 & 14 and shift. Shift is far superior in every way way. Cast is a PITA. If shift is set up properly it will work just fine for you. In wouldn't advise skiing them everyday 125+ days a year off the tram. But for aggressive backcountry skiing they are by far the best option. When I ski in mine the only thing I notice is that my Salomon MTN lab doesn't ski as well as a 150 Doberman plug.


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[madriverfreeride]

In contrast to the last post I really don’t trust the shifts, I watched multiple friends tamohawk because of prereleases on those bindings. One was pretty scary and involved both skis left on the top of a pillow line, pretty hard to retrieve them back in a couple feet of pow, involved a lot of wallowing and swearing.

And before all the people with salomon boners speak up, all of the releases I witnessed were on bindings mounted at solly shops and were tested multiple times. They test perfectly on the machine and fail miserably in the real world.

[DerekPersson]

I give a favorable overall review to the Beast 16.

Having used them inbounds Jackson Hole for the 2016-17 winter, I can say they ride hard and feel intuitive.

My only release was when landing squarely on a rock off about a 10 foot drop. I’ve toured Teton pass with them as well, and do not mind the lack of flat tour mode.

My biggest gripe is that stepping into the binding on an angled surface can be tough, especially on firm snow. When your buddies are charging off into the powder, you can get left behind fucking around with this binder.

Still keep them in my arsenal, and have always thought they’d make a good sidecountry or sled skiing binding. However, I now ski Bridger and Big Sky, so not as applicable in my world.


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Seems like they ski pretty well, but it seems like the lack of compatibility with most boots regarding the horseshoe insert will likely deter me from that setup. But as you mentioned, maybe I could try on some Vulcans and see how they feel.

Any touring is going to be a bigger hindrance to charging than the shift binding. I've owned beast 16 & 14 and shift. Shift is far superior in every way way. Cast is a PITA. If shift is set up properly it will work just fine for you. In wouldn't advise skiing them everyday 125+ days a year off the tram. But for aggressive backcountry skiing they are by far the best option. When I ski in mine the only thing I notice is that my Salomon MTN lab doesn't ski as well as a 150 Doberman plug.


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In contrast to the last post I really don’t trust the shifts, I watched multiple friends tamohawk because of prereleases on those bindings. One was pretty scary and involved both skis left on the top of a pillow line, pretty hard to retrieve them back in a couple feet of pow, involved a lot of wallowing and swearing.

And before all the people with salomon boners speak up, all of the releases I witnessed were on bindings mounted at solly shops and were tested multiple times. They test perfectly on the machine and fail miserably in the real world.

I'm leaning a bit more towards madriverfreeride here. I just don't think I can get myself to trust a predominantly plastic hybrid touring binding with pretty little overall actual consumer hours. Sure the Solly crew will rave about them but they're also sponsored by Salomon and if something breaks they're surely not letting consumers know they're actually on their third pair of the winter...so I always take those "these are the best" statements with a grain of salt.

Sure you're going to be more cautious in the BC and may not frequently throttle as hard as inbounds terrain...BUT when you do, it's nice to know you have some secure attachments to your skis.

[tuco]

I agree w/ mrfr that a ski prereleasing can be downright as dangerous as one not coming off.
D-, in post 3 you said you had probably 5 prereleases this season. Not good! Not so sure you're on secure attachments now dude!

[DerekPersson]

I agree w/ mrfr that a ski prereleasing can be downright as dangerous as one not coming off.
D-, in post 3 you said you had probably 5 prereleases this season. Not good! Not so sure you're on secure attachments now dude!

100%

But I know right? I knew going into this past winter the Vibrams I had on my Patron Pros were pretty worn but they were "testing" OK. However, I think probably 4 of the 5 pre-releases were due to landing firm airs at high velocity and popping out due to the poor Interface of the worn soles even though they "tested" OK. But thats my own fault...definitely staying more on top of this in the future.

[tuco]

Yes, new boots bro!
I personally believe the reason stuff tests ok but doesn't perform ok is because of the static environment of testing. Back in the day the old markers had the most reliable test results via hand-pulled Vermont tester. But out in the real world the twin cam/ upward release tab couldn't keep up with the cycling of the ski in rough terrain.
I believe most prereleases to be boot/binding interface related problems. Mostly people not clearing lugs well enough, which I believe the Shifts to really be susceptible to.