College Admissions Scandal

[MarcusBrody]

I read this and was somewhat amused for a couple of reasons:

1. There were a couple of cases where they apparently forgot to tell the kids that they were an "athlete". One of the coaches involved was Georgetown's tennis coach. I went to Georgetown and when I got in, the admittance letter, it specifically referenced that they were impressed with my accomplishments in tennis. i had in no way indicated that I was interested in playing tennis.

2. Who the fuck pays $500,000 to get their kids into USC? Have some standards. And heck, if you have that much to spend, you can generally just openly bribe your way into a school by contributing a large amount to the school as a tax free donation to build a dorm or something. I've been at places where there are totally different tours for wooing these potential donors. I seriously doubt they reject the students after that.

[highangle]

I think this is just a smoke screen to throw some wealthy folks under the bus while completely sweeping the whole NCAA basketball recruiting thing under the rug. The feds won't go after coaches of universities for the fear of exposing the corrupt recruiting system that's been in place for decades. The NCAA won't tough the multi billion dollar golden goose. They just sentenced a low level manager from Adidas for 8 months in prison but nothing has/will be done to the coaches that participated in the process that paid for recruits to sign at schools. Bottom line is if you have money and connections you can buy or access more things than the guy without it, this will never change.

That's a more useful Theory of Money than most.

[highangle]

I read this and was somewhat amused for a couple of reasons:

1. There were a couple of cases where they apparently forgot to tell the kids that they were an "athlete". One of the coaches involved was Georgetown's tennis coach. I went to Georgetown and when I got in, the admittance letter, it specifically referenced that they were impressed with my accomplishments in tennis. i had in no way indicated that I was interested in playing tennis.

2. Who the fuck pays $500,000 to get their kids into USC? Have some standards. And heck, if you have that much to spend, you can generally just openly bribe your way into a school by contributing a large amount to the school as a tax free donation to build a dorm or something. I've been at places where there are totally different tours for wooing these potential donors. I seriously doubt they reject the students after that.

You went to fkn Georgetown and don't understand endowments? Dang.

[Ottime]

yeah, he's listed as "spouse" in the indictment (but not charges) and in the transcript sounds about as dumb as the criminals William H. Macy plays on film.

It's not that shocking that people are willing to pay for the best, really. And this case was about people who could pay*, they just couldn't pay enough to do it legally. It also reinforces the dynamics of the world now.

*except for the USC dentist who refied his house so he could fake his daughter being a lacrosse player to get her into USC.

I'm not sure being someone's spouse is evidence of culpability. But hey, lets live in a world of assumptions and guilty till proven innocent. I'm not defending Macy, just not slinging arrows until more facts surface.

I guess when I used the word "evidence", I meant evidence as opposed to association. Are you saying if my wife goes out and murders her lover, then I should also go to prison?

As for dumb, Mamet sure sounded dumb coming out and defending them, and blaming the schools. Sure, the schools create this shit storm, but it's these parents who cheat it with lies and money.

There is a ton to this story, such as admission processes, entitlement, fraud. Non of it is shocking. We should not be shocked that enough lies and money can get you any where including POTUS and SCOTUS. It happens every day. But we do not need to just accept it as the way things get done. Just like we don't need to accept that IKON/EPIC is the future of skiing.

Besides, all of this is for sure just smoke andirons to keep the country's eye off the ball, and make Hollywood and Education look bad. The Justice Department is a part of the Executive. This was a purposeful role out to let us know that it is not just Manafort that is a bad guy, but those liberals too.

Schools are more competitive and more expensive than ever. There are still a ton of good schools out there, where anyone willing to put in the effort can get an excellent education. There was a comment about B grade students. Nothing fucking wrong with a B grade. An A should only be awarded for excellent, well above average, impeccable work. A C grade is Average. Let's not shame B ever students, cause they are lot fucking smarter than most. Part of the problem is creating a society where only the best of the best are appreciated and valued. No wonder we have such an income gap in this country.

[The AD]

Because they're, generally, pretty dumb?

Generally you are wrong.

Work?

If you question the amount of work it typically takes to be able to compete in college athletics I just don't even know what to say to you...

[Timberridge]

Because they're, generally, pretty dumb?

Work?

You do realize colleges won't get 20,000 people to watch 10 kids do math problems?

[mcski]

You do realize colleges won't get 20,000 people to watch 10 kids do math problems?

What if they did math problems w knives?

[highangle]

B=80-90=upper quintile
A=>90=upper decile

It's at least twice as difficult to get an A on a given exam as a B.

[Timberridge]

What if they did math problems w knives?

You may be on to something.

This sort of "out of the box" thinking is what's lacking in higher education.

[Art Shirk]

I read this and was somewhat amused for a couple of reasons:

1. There were a couple of cases where they apparently forgot to tell the kids that they were an "athlete". One of the coaches involved was Georgetown's tennis coach. I went to Georgetown and when I got in, the admittance letter, it specifically referenced that they were impressed with my accomplishments in tennis. i had in no way indicated that I was interested in playing tennis.

I wanted to play tennis at Georgetown, my grandfather graduated there top of his class in both undergrad and med school, donated a shed-load of money and all I got was wait listed so I went to the west coast instead. Damn white privilege and a poor backhand let me down.

Maybe you got my acceptance letter by accident

[SumJongGuy]

What wrong with Athletes getting preference?

They have worked for it.

The bigger scandal is how are schools like USC ranked so high?


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That isn't really the issues here. The, shall we say "agent", created a fake history for students, falsely claiming they were top tier athletes, one example was volleyball state champ, faked photos of them in school uniform, then bribed the college coach to pretend to put them on the team, granting them an academic scholarship and easier admission criteria that star athletes get.. Then said kid never actually joined the college team.. One kid's high school didn't even have a team for the sport they claimed the kid excelled at and won high school championships playing.

[MarcusBrody]

You went to fkn Georgetown and don't understand endowments? Dang.

What don't I understand about endowments? What does any of this really have to even do with endowments aside from colleges always wanting to increase them?

[MarcusBrody]

I wanted to play tennis at Georgetown, my grandfather graduated there top of his class in both undergrad and med school, donated a shed-load of money and all I got was wait listed so I went to the west coast instead. Damn white privilege and a poor backhand let me down.

Maybe you got my acceptance letter by accident

Hahaha I never went to a match to see how good the tennis team actually was, so I have no idea if I could have played. I did make my drinking money while in college by teaching lessons to the rich 10 year olds of Mclean, VA though, so tennis really did me a number of solids during my college years.

Also, this has made me realize that I missed an opportunity. I'm an alumni interviewer for admissions this year. I really could have been soliciting more bribes. My drinking standards since college have gotten higher.

[El Kanone]

How do you think Obama got into Harvard??

Hint: Alwaleed bin Talal


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[SumJongGuy]

How do you think Obama got into Harvard??

Hint: Alwaleed bin Talal


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So he went to Menlo College in Cali and got Obama in to Harvard? What a fiendish plot indeed, Nobody would have suspected a thing until you broke this wide open!

[The AD]

1. There were a couple of cases where they apparently forgot to tell the kids that they were an "athlete". One of the coaches involved was Georgetown's tennis coach. I went to Georgetown and when I got in, the admittance letter, it specifically referenced that they were impressed with my accomplishments in tennis. i had in no way indicated that I was interested in playing tennis.

In light of what we now know, this was clearly Georgetown's code for "we thank your parents for their generous donation!"

[MarcusBrody]

In light of what we now know, this was clearly Georgetown's code for "we thank your parents for their generous donation!"

And now i'm pissed that my parents were hiding our wealth from me all my life! They better not have used it up getting me into college...


Adding to my apparent sketchiness: I went to grad school at one of the other schools with a fraud participant employee and was also admitted to Claremont McKenna for undergrad a few years before they were found to be inflating the SAT scores of the accepted students.

[klauss]

I always idolized cru jones because he was in with a young lori loughlin. That, his jaunts in the lumberyard, domination of helltrack and that he tailwhipped that dudes papers talking about ivy league offers.

[dunfree]

I'm not sure being someone's spouse is evidence of culpability. But hey, lets live in a world of assumptions and guilty till proven innocent. I'm not defending Macy, just not slinging arrows until more facts surface.

here's the indictment:
https://www.justice.gov/file/1142876/download
they begin on page 72, "spouse" is quoted on page 77. feel free to read it.

[highangle]

What don't I understand about endowments? What does any of this really have to even do with endowments aside from colleges always wanting to increase them?

By number, most university endowments are private. Indeed, endowing chairs and professorships and scholarships and research has long been considered high service to one's fellow man. An opportunity to those of sufficient means.
So making a certain amount of room in a program for the favored children of those who fund it for the rest seems a small price to pay in the overall scheme, and has long been the honorable way for the Prince Charles' and GW Bush's of the world to make it through school and be less of a drag on their high houses.

[MarcusBrody]

By number, most university endowments are private. Indeed, endowing chairs and professorships and scholarships and research has long been considered high service to one's fellow man. An opportunity to those of sufficient means.
So making a certain amount of room in a program for the favored children of those who fund it for the rest seems a small price to pay in the overall scheme, and has long been the honorable way for the Prince Charles' of the world to be less of a drag on their high houses.

I don't misunderstand that. I'm a professor. I am just suggesting that if you are willing to commit $500,000 to getting your kid into a college, there are ways to do it right out in the open that don't risk shame/criminal charges.

[4matic]

Irrespective of the scandal and athletics admissions applicants with exemplary talent in art, music, science, and cultural diversity are routinely granted admission. All of these top ranked schools could fill their enrollment with 4.0+ students but it would not provide the best experience for everyone.

If you have the money $1 million is a small investment to access the networking contacts a place like Harvard or Stanford opens for students and parents.

Cal and Harvard for example are under fire for under admitting Asian students based on merit.


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[Skidog]

I think this is just a smoke screen to throw some wealthy folks under the bus while completely sweeping the whole NCAA basketball recruiting thing under the rug. The feds won't go after coaches of universities for the fear of exposing the corrupt recruiting system that's been in place for decades. The NCAA won't tough the multi billion dollar golden goose. They just sentenced a low level manager from Adidas for 8 months in prison but nothing has/will be done to the coaches that participated in the process that paid for recruits to sign at schools. Bottom line is if you have money and connections you can buy or access more things than the guy without it, this will never change.

ITs not what you know its who you know or how much money you have to buy those you dont know. Kinda how its always been in my short 48 years on this spinning blue ball.

[Powder Ho]

[QUOTE=Benny Profane;5620333]Because they're, generally, pretty dumb?
Said every non athlete I've ever known.

[highangle]

I don't misunderstand that. I'm a professor. I am just suggesting that if you are willing to commit $500,000 to getting your kid into a college, there are ways to do it right out in the open that don't risk shame/criminal charges.

I thought I had just explained one namely, "endowments"? You could have helped btw.