Your TAXES

[Hood26]

I’m now working a wage job. Was pretty amazed at the workers reluctance to take on overtime and double time. Comments like it’s not worth the money. The taxes eat away the overtime pay. So, I don’t want to work.
Clearly mistaking the high deductions on the heavy checks for more taxes paid. These guys turn down weekends at $140 an hr. I’m eating them up. We have 12 hour days paying bank.

Need a resume and reference? I can also supply transcripts and a Vita. $140 an hour sounds awesome. I can easily put in 12 and do so often. 16 for four days straight is my PR.

I hope I didn’t write anything that misconstrued my intelligence and experience that badly. I know TGR is where we all get to be taught we are dumber than we are.

Big picture. I am kid of poverty that was just figuring out how this all worked as I entered into the low middle class, and the new tax law changed the rules of the game.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/t...ve-it-to-them/

For instance, if we are to itemize now, or presumably in the future, we will need to go back and change how we file our 1098 because of our cash out refinance. People still can claim the interest on a second home, but better not claim it on whatever cash wasn’t used on “substantial improvements” (it’s a damn good thing our interior paint was in conjunction with a kitchen revamp or it wouldn’t have counted. Also, looking at that change, what about the people who cashed out 20 years ago, they have to pony up the receipts to prove how they spent it? Grandfather is only granted to pre 1987. This seems like a monumental shift in the tax code that has gotten relatively no coverage in media or financial advice circles.

Last year, the feds send us some un-solicited checks for our children and then say never-mind, you owe us $6k still even though we were claiming total of 2 exemptions for a family of four. Then we get told, oh here is this new W4 it’s going to fix it all. It’s a good thing we tucked that money away banking on the giving it right back.

I grew up preparing my mom’s 1040EZ for her. I think I was 15 when I started doing her taxes, yes with the paper form. Pretty simple. Single mother of one with shit for income. Standard deduction, claim 2 and the EIC here’s her return check of $200 and maybe it was enough for a new baseball glove and a diner put together. By college I was completing the 1040A for myself. Gotta tax that work study and scholarships. No stream of money goes untaxed, right?

Now both the 1040 EZ and 1040A are historic documents.

When the wife was working part time and we were doing everything we could to not send our kids off to daycare it was finally the big time. We are adults with the 1040 and better save every fucking record of any piece of kid clothing or item we handed off to Goodwill.

When my mom died in 2015 I got the pleasure of filing her taxes even after she dead. She really earned some big time money while she was getting chemo and radiation on her lunch breaks! Oh but the medical expenses weren’t just quite enough to actually claim (damn good thing she had supplemental coverage by then) so better again account for all the little shit that was passed from a dead woman to Goodwill, so she doesn’t actually still owe more.

This particular W2 just threw me for a loop. Netting 3 checks of less than $100 and giving almost $2100 to the feds I just kinda thought my tax picture would have improved by a bit more. That teaches me my new tax lesson, don’t just kinda assume shit with our tax code and better actually crunch the numbers.

I will sleep better tonight though knowing I did my civic duty this year and paid more taxes than Jeff Bezos and all the rich fucks who helped write the new code.

Again, anyone want to get in on the ground floor of creating my holy mountain tax shelter for skiers? I brought the idea; who can cook the books? I am sure we can somehow justify that we didn’t receive “substantial pleasure” while we were congregating on the ski slopes.

[Core Shot]

An older ski bum friend said he never minded paying taxes since it meant he made money.
Of course he inherited money. Hence the ski bum vibe.

But fuck. We are so far from confiscatory taxation. More money is more money. Even if you hit the next marginal bracket.

I remember when abba left Sweden because their mega money for making shitty music was taxed at 70%
We are nowhere near that.

Make the money. Max your deductions. And pay the tax.

[Hood26]

Part of me is inclined to agree with the general sentiment. Not sure how this turned into “Hood doesn’t want to work overtime” thread” especially since I just signed up for overtime for the next 6mo with my primary employer.

The other part of me though wouldn’t mind being a middle class Swede. I am pretty confident that I would make better wages in my field, would have better healthcare, and my kids would get a pretty first class education.

Also, maybe the new code has hit you differently, but it is making it more difficult to “maximize deductions.” Not saying you have one, but we could write-off our private plane maintenance. Maybe my tax shelter scheme could get a plane and a heli for necessary travel, of course.

Something in your prolific participation in this community also makes me think your next post will school me in the principles of the mighty Trickle Down Economics. A high tide raises all boats, right?

[CascadeLuke]

Need a resume and reference? I can also supply transcripts and a Vita. $140 an hour sounds awesome. I can easily put in 12 and do so often. 16 for four days straight is my PR.

Just to clarify- that’s the double time rate bozos are declining. Working as a union electrician. It’s not for everyone but plenty of upside work into the future. And a nice pension.
We had a road shutdown and most guys put in 30 hrs this last weekend. One crew did 21 straight.

[Core Shot]

Trickle down is what happens when the rich people piss on the worker class.

The whole cut taxes for the Uber rich is bullshit. More Ferrari and Lamborghini ain’t making more jobs. Otoh reasonable tax cuts for small employers actually works. And wtf about cap gains taxes? Money is money. Income is income. Unless you are rich. Then you lobby for tax cuts and hire the best accountants

[old goat]

Even if it did, you'd pay a whopping 2% more, only on the additional income over the top of the 22% bucket. Not a reason to avoid the work at all. If it was shitty work not worth the time, that's fine, but that's not a financial reason.

Yeah, a kid that used to work for me told me that it was better for him to work two jobs than one with overtime because he got taxed so much. I said nothing. Because i was his second job. But for fucks sakes man, these people really have no clue how the system works but are so confident in their assertions. Pretty comical if it wasn't so sad.

It's not just ignorance that causes people to think that there's no point in working more because taxes. That's been the line of one of our major political parties for a long time.

[Hood26]

Oh good Core, you aren’t as lost as I thought you were. Carry on.

Fuck yeah Cascadeluke! Good on you for being a good employer. I am probably too far gone down my worthless academia road to become an electrician, but that a solid path for the kids just getting going.

Got the W2 for non taxable sick pay today. Cool it’s not taxable but it is enough to bump the 1099 for our big savings interest into a marginal rate of 23.93 because it’s the last dollars we earned. Progressive Taxes at work. That is until the passive income starts flowing for those “low wage earners.” Anyone remember when Steve Jobs went back to work at Apple for the saintly sum of a $1 a year? Damn I wish I had been old enough to buy that stock. I should buy my kids some mutual funds or stocks.

Climbing the ladder of the American Dream! Gonna be 24%ERs soon.

[jono]

I hope I didn’t write anything that misconstrued my intelligence and experience that badly. I know TGR is where we all get to be taught we are dumber than we are.

I got it. Not sure why it was misconstrued, I'd have thought your reference to cost/benefit made your thinking pretty clear. You did ask about accounting on TGR, though. It coulda been worse.

[Toadman]

An older ski bum friend said he never minded paying taxes since it meant he made money.
Of course he inherited money. Hence the ski bum vibe.

But fuck. We are so far from confiscatory taxation. More money is more money. Even if you hit the next marginal bracket.

I remember when abba left Sweden because their mega money for making shitty music was taxed at 70%
We are nowhere near that.

Make the money. Max your deductions. And pay the tax.

You been listening to Suze?

https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/taxe...ing-heres-why/

[Hood26]

Suze has long been in that camp. Dave too; it’s one of the things they agree most on. I think that article heading contained a key Freudian slip “higher earnings, tend to lead to higher taxes” that shouldn’t be a “tend.” I would argue it is a “must.” I think that’s the crux of a lot of people’s gripe. We are getting a very large rift between wealth levels; this same trend brought down the Roman Republic and then subsequently the Empire too later. As an open market advocate, I think that is one thing if that wealth is built through trade and providing goods and services that people demand; this is good. It’s a completely different situation when wealth and power fix the game in their favor. I know this will always be the way things are and thus effective government needs to mitigate this. Take Swift. Lover her and have no problem with her becoming a billionaire and sucking up my money every time I play her songs on iTunes. Now if she takes some of her billions and lobbies and funds politicians that would change the rules and make it harder for future promising stars; then fuck that. This is what the 2018 Tax Code did. Many middle earners lost long held deductions while the super wealthy gained some new and quite novel; fucking airplane maintenance?! I know I keep bringing it up but come on.

Me Side tracking even further into Poly Assing this thread, the changing of The Fed board’s term limits is catastrophic for our long range monetary policy because that erodes the insulation our central bank had from political influence, but oh well, “in the long run we are all dead” as Keynes taught us right? Isn’t it also funny that we only really started to really worry about inflation when the bulk of Baby Boomers retired? We been running pretty hot for a long time right up to then. Things that make you go hmm.

Regarding the w4 being intentionally fucked, that seems a bit conspiracy theory for me. That’s the kind of intervention politicians usually don’t get. I would like to think our hard working civil-service-bureaucrat schmucks that designed it are just really good with tables and numbers and probably can’t fathom why it’s a challenge for lay people.

Jono, thank you. Always can count on you to cut through rationally.

[jackstraw]

We should do a group tgr jet purchase! I didn't realize all the tax breaks!

https://www.jet-bed.com/are-private-...ax-deductible/

[Hood26]

My first convert! You are the Holy Order of Maggots #2 and as such you will also be placed as the CEO of our for-profit R&D in snow sciences and hydrology. Where would you like to research first? Cham? Aspen? Davos? Or perhaps Iceland? Now of course you will be expected to tithe most of your income, but don’t worry your work and further dedication to our religious mission will be highly rewarding, but not “significantly pleasurable” because we are a network of tax shelters after all and we don’t want to give up our deductions.

Ok we need some seed money. Do we have any dentists in the room?

[riser4]

This discussion reminds me of the occasional rando I run into that says they wouldn't want to win the lottery because it's taxed so heavily. Huh? If you win you'll still have tons of money!

[Core Shot]

Fuck. Birds aren’t real?
Right up there with taxes are illegal. I think you are ready for a Wesley Snipes moment. Give it a try and report back. From jail.

PS. Fuck the fed. And Woodrow Wilson. And who the fuck made Hamilton a musical broadway star? I say action Jackson is the man. Fuck this den of vipers. And fuck Goldman and blackrock while we’re cursing monetary insanity. Otoh. It’s not just the puppet masters. It’s also the puppets voting for more free shit that isn’t free.

[Mustonen]

"Household Finance" should be a required class. I'm stunned at how many grown ass adults don't have a clue about credit cards or checking accounts or compound interest; they know how to "use" a credit card or a checking account and understand basic interest, but no clue how to use these all effectively and not get fucked by them.

I’m not convinced it would help much. An aversion to math is intrinsic to our culture such that everybody’s eyes glaze over the second you mention taking a percentage of something. That needs to be fixed. Somehow. Basic math is basic and everybody should be expected to be able to do it.

[Mustonen]

I got it. Not sure why it was misconstrued, I'd have thought your reference to cost/benefit made your thinking pretty clear. You did ask about accounting on TGR, though. It coulda been worse.

I’m still wondering whether or not he gets that his actual income from his side gig was gross less effective tax rate, and the cost/benefit was gross less marginal tax rate, all of which has nothing to do with withholding.

[jono]

I’m still wondering whether or not he gets that his actual income from his side gig was gross less effective tax rate, and the cost/benefit was gross less marginal tax rate, all of which has nothing to do with withholding.

Of course you are. Because TGR. Misreading in the least charitable and most confusing way possible is a given. Always assume maximum stupidity and inability to learn. If it looks like you might be wrong, never go back and read again with fresh eyes, always dig in. We got more shovels than box fans.

ETA something about sarcasm or faulty meters or both. I always forget that step. Damnit.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Of course you are. Because TGR. Misreading in the least charitable and most confusing way possible is a given. Always assume maximum stupidity and inability to learn. If it looks like you might be wrong, never go back and read again with fresh eyes, always dig in. We got more shovels than box fans.

ETA something about sarcasm or faulty meters or both. I always forget that step. Damnit.

Guilty. Make TGR Fun Again. Those that ask questions, tend to be way towards the learning>understanding>figuring it out side of things. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. Part of what makes this place awesome is the collective knowledge. I can't think of on topic where we don't have some collective level of expertise.

[Master of Energy]

When I started my business I used Taxact online and was pleasantly surprised at how easy it was and how much I got back. Until after 3 years the IRS came calling and turns out Taxact was very wrong. A friend referred me to his tax person. She fixed the previous 3 years, I paid the $$$ and have not looked back. Costs me a fair hit $ 450.00, worth every penny and we have become friends as well.

you get a business tax return prepared by an accountant for $450?

Is she based in India?

[jono]

Guilty. Make TGR Fun Again. Those that ask questions, tend to be way towards the learning>understanding>figuring it out side of things. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. Part of what makes this place awesome is the collective knowledge. I can't think of on topic where we don't have some collective level of expertise.

I think we get into our patterns. Tech support, medical, accounting, whatever. We expect what we remember.

I have a discussion like that one with my accountant monthly: starts as an accounting question and no sooner do I have my answer than I pivot to economics so I can bitch about utility. I do not warn my accountant before doing so, but I think he's starting to expect it. Finally. Took 30 years of free business tax returns, though. Shit. I'm gonna have to take that guy to Hawaii. Again.

[Bunion 2020]

you get a business tax return prepared by an accountant for $450?

Is she based in India?

Single person LLC, she is a CPA that only does taxes, Bozeman.

[skaredshtles]

<snip> Basic math is basic and everybody should be expected to be able to do it.

[Hood26]

I returned home to my dorm room, long ago, upset because I hadn’t passed my math placement test for 111. I had already been at the university for 2 years and had not taken a math course since AP Stats my junior year of high school. My roommate, a mathematics major, was the first person I vented to. His reply, without a hint of irony, empathy, or any other sign that he indeed possessed some social and emotional intelligence was, “well, you just need to learn how to think.”

I figured my shit out. Thank you to those that provided help or humor.

The taxable income for this W2 was the full amount earned because the standard deduction had already been applied to my first W2. This is what I had failed to originally understand because we have only filed for a standard deduction the last four years, and only one of those years I had an additional W2. That prior filing, no income taxes were withheld form it, so for this W2 I had intentionally set withholdings very high. Basically, I chose to work this job to fund the tax bill I knew was coming.

Here’s the number, all relating to Fed. Income (both taxable and total) $2834. Taxes owed for this income $623 (marginal tax rate of 22.98%). Taxes withheld $2099.07. Therefore, $1476.07 was applied to my overall tax burden reducing our currently forecasted taxes still owed at $7xxx.

My effective rate with this income is 16.06% and if I were not to have had it, it would have been 15.95%

True net take-home for this pay was $1,694.01; give or take a little as we itemize for state returns. Estimated hours of work for this income 10 hours a week for 11 weeks, 110hrs. Hourly wage for this work $15.40. Personal utils, on a scale of 1-10, 3 because I was able to double dip and earn some graduate credits, of which I had to pay for. Because I no longer have a need to earn more grad credits, I will probably be turning this work down in the future. However, I will need to think on the potential social capital before doing so.

Overall lesson learned from this year’s tax picture: we need do whatever we can (excluding my hyperbolic tax shelters) to get back to itemizing deductions. I think will start with changing retirement contributions.

Back to the roommate’s assertion. “… you need to learn how to think.” Even when ignoring the various social emotional intelligence, there is a logical fallacy within the roommate’s position. By stating I need to “learn how to think” he implied that there is a binary way to think, how to think and how not to think. Thus, the black and white fallacy and not sound logic on his own end. It’s a good thing we still had two more years of undergrad, grad school, and a lifetime of learning ahead of both of us because we both showed a need to work on “how we think.”

[fastfred]

So glad I don't deal with money I got a guy that charges me 420 a month to take care of my money he's helpful I couldn't imagine filing taxes that's like serious brain rot best of luck to all of you this tax season

Sent from my SM-A546V using Tapatalk

[Timberridge]

you get a business tax return prepared by an accountant for $450?

Is she based in India?

Now they have your social security number.

So glad I don't deal with money I got a guy that charges me 420 a month to take care of my money he's helpful I couldn't imagine filing taxes that's like serious brain rot best of luck to all of you this tax season

Sent from my SM-A546V using Tapatalk

He at least gives you something on a piece of paper showing where you stand each Q, even if it's handwritten?