Which “moldable” OEM boot plastics actually bend the best with suggested instructions

[Gaperious Basterd]

The purpose of this thread is to generate discussion on which ski boot plastics (almost every consumer boot 2019 has such a thing) actually MOLDS to the foot.

I’ve only experienced two (Fischer and a Salomon); the first dos mold, and the otter does not.

Curious about other opinions on the latter, as well as HEAD, Nordica (IR stuff), etc.

Alternatively, interested in “HV” boots (Lange and Techinca are examples with high-performance models) for people tired of pain, numb feet, and repeated trips to the boot fitter, even at the expense of some performance.

With “moldable plastic,” I’ve found (with suggested instructions) the focal radius of deformation is too small to possible allow local deformations for things like the bunions of human metatarsal bone heads, among others).

(Aside rant... the “common areas” for boot work, why can’t OEMS just bite the bulletin and create a conical void in commonly-punched areas?)

The same shaming of bad skiers is all the more reinforcement to not have plastic in those places: a good skier NEVER drives weight there. Therefore, that plastic is not needed.


Guess this thread was too much. Anyone here ski in a Technical “HV” or a Lange “SX” boot?

I have water-fowl feet. Not high volume. Very vertically thin. Extremely horizontally wide. Technically low VOLUME but huge footprint.


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[I've seen black diamonds!]

Boot fitter.

[gregL]

Every ski boot plastic, including those that aren't specificially advertised as "heat moldable," responds to heating as recommended by boot manufacturers (6-10 minutes in a standard K-Tech oven @ 235-240 F.) - how much they will change is quite specific to the model of boot, not just the brand. The Amer brands (Salomon and Atomic) typically change permanently enough to satisfy most customers, as long as they are in the right shell in the first place. The newer K2 boots (Recon/Luv) don't seem to respond quite as well for width increases, but baking is still a valid tool especially for instep issues. I've never used the Fischer Vacuum system, but I've seen one "unmold" when left too close to a heat source.

I have a wide foot of average volume, and large bunions. If I bake a Salomon or Atomic shell (granted, I start with an LV lasted 98mm one size shorter than I measure on the Brannock), it's never been enough for me, I still need to do a bunch of manual work at the met heads, navicular/midfoot, and medial maleolus. FWIW, I could ski a Tecnica Mach Sport EHV 120 straight out of the box in my measured size, and a Lange SX 130 with probably 10 minutes of work, but I'd be swimming in the boot within days.

If you are picky about performance and have a wide but low volume foot, you are still best off fitting your heel/midfoot snugly and finding a good bootfitter to make the forefoot wider.

As for why boot manufacturers don't pre-punch common pressure areas - they are starting to, but mostly navicular. Run you hand along the inside of a recent Tecnica, Dalbello, or K2 and you'll feel it. As for 1st and 5th met heads, pretty much all newer lasts are roomier than they used to be, and most people simply don't need it (though Tecnica marks the areas with divots in the mold).

They design the lasts for the 80 percent, not your foot.

[GoldenBC]

I find Salomons customshell plastic to be much more likely to return to it's original shape than Atomics (apparently they are different). The Salomon one is also much more difficult to make a punch hold on an area that has already been heat molded.

105 mm wide foot, low instep, low volume foot in a 24.5 hawx xtd with a 3/4 finger fit. Have nerve issue so need room on 5th met head. After molding and punching I almost have too much room. Gained quite a bit of length in the toes too.

[gregL]

I find Salomons customshell plastic to be much more likely to return to it's original shape than Atomics (apparently they are different). The Salomon one is also much more difficult to make a punch hold on an area that has already been heat molded.

Agree with this; if you don't get enough movement with the oven Salomons are harder to punch manually and don't hold the shape as well. The current Hawx 130 XTD plastic is quite rigid even when hot and takes a bit of force to move but holds well once punched; hard to get more than 5mm in toe length on the XTD 130/120 due to the downslope of the toebox driving the punch into the sole of the boot.

[Gaperious Basterd]

Thnx for replies guys. Especially GregL that was very informative.


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[dgillis73]

If you are looking at just punching and general boot work on a shell, I have had really good luck with Nordica's infrared system. I'm not quite sure what type of plastic that they are using in the shell. It's pretty easy for a boot fitter to do correctly with their kit, and I have definitely had better luck with punches staying punched and not returning to the shell's original shape. I also agree with GregL, in that you are almost always better off starting with a boot that fits your heel & mid-foot, and then letting a boot fitter do their job to make the fore-foot fit well and comfortably. Just my two cents

[Muggydude]

I made a thread about it a while ago, but my Salomon X-Pros certainly "Molded" to my foot when I molded using the Fischer vacuum machine. 3 years later and the fit is still excellent - extremely close fitting everywhere, but no pressure points and pain free. I have extremely wide feet (105mm last at 25.5), high instep, normal arches, narrow heel.

[gregL]

If you are looking at just punching and general boot work on a shell, I have had really good luck with Nordica's infrared system. I'm not quite sure what type of plastic that they are using in the shell. It's pretty easy for a boot fitter to do correctly with their kit, and I have definitely had better luck with punches staying punched and not returning to the shell's original shape.

The Nordica Infrared system is just another way to heat a shell for modification; the plastics in their shells are no different than anyone else's. Using the infrared lamp at the default 6 minutes and the heater frame touching the shell seems to work fine for most perimeter punches on most boots, but the suction apparatus they provide in the suitcase leaves something to be desired in terms of punching power - we just mounted the IR heaters on the wall and use our regular presses.

There is still is some experimentation involved (6 minutes is not enough for some stout polyether shells, too much for some thin Grilamid ones, and it makes a big difference if you are starting out cold or someone has just used the heater). Overall it's slower and less precise than a skilled bootfitter with an Eddy Pro heat gun, but it's harder for a novice to fuck up a boot.

[mntlion]

any shell (almost) is moldable you need heat (oven, heat gun, hot water) and pressure (padded foot&tight buckles, lever punch, hydro expander, vacuum "sucky thing") plus a bit of time for the boot to cool

[dgillis73]

The Nordica Infrared system is just another way to heat a shell for modification; the plastics in their shells are no different than anyone else's. Using the infrared lamp at the default 6 minutes and the heater frame touching the shell seems to work fine for most perimeter punches on most boots, but the suction apparatus they provide in the suitcase leaves something to be desired in terms of punching power - we just mounted the IR heaters on the wall and use our regular presses.

There is still is some experimentation involved (6 minutes is not enough for some stout polyether shells, too much for some thin Grilamid ones, and it makes a big difference if you are starting out cold or someone has just used the heater). Overall it's slower and less precise than a skilled bootfitter with an Eddy Pro heat gun, but it's harder for a novice to fuck up a boot.

Good info, the way it got sold to me at least was that it was just a Nordica thing, but it makes sense that its just another way to heat up the shell and isn't unique, but rather just another way to accomplish the same thing. More than one way to skin a cat I guess