The 300g Touring Binding Thread

[Cocximus]

I need a binding to complement my vipecs. I have a few vipecs that I have been using between all my skis since they were released.

I find they ski very well for my needs. I trust them to keep me in and release only when they should. Why do I want another binding? I spend a lot of time with skis on my back on couloirs and hiking to the snow line. Beside weight I want something that is fast at transitioning. The vipecs toes get clogged up in spring snow and they are very hard to take off. Many times I have to put them on by holding the toe open with a pole or by hand, kinda like the old g3 zed.

I am looking at:

ATK crest - Solid and great overall. Supposedly some elastic travel. Dunno about the lack of gapless heels. I encounter jittery crust and refrozen chunks all season. I love the look and feel of the binding, and I would probably put it on my wall after using it for a decade, but at the moment I don't have the resources to blow on buji gear.

Trab vario 2 - The toe design is intriguing, but the elastic advantage is not really there from what I read. Also how easy is it to get into the toes? I'm used to holding the toes open from my vipecs, but it might be a nuisance when getting into the bindings from a rap. They have a gapless heel but that spring looks fidgety.

Marker Alpinist - Good on paper, but Marker always has the fanboys and hype. I dislike how they handle their warranty. They can be found cheap though. Surprisingly, I can't find much bitching about them on TGR which is a good sign. Anyone have experience with them in spring snow?

[SoVT Joey]

I need a binding to complement my vipecs. I have a few vipecs that I have been using between all my skis since they were released.

I find they ski very well for my needs. I trust them to keep me in and release only when they should. Why do I want another binding? I spend a lot of time with skis on my back on couloirs and hiking to the snow line. Beside weight I want something that is fast at transitioning. The vipecs toes get clogged up in spring snow and they are very hard to take off. Many times I have to put them on by holding the toe open with a pole or by hand, kinda like the old g3 zed.

I am looking at:

ATK crest - Solid and great overall. Supposedly some elastic travel. Dunno about the lack of gapless heels. I encounter jittery crust and refrozen chunks all season. I love the look and feel of the binding, and I would probably put it on my wall after using it for a decade, but at the moment I don't have the resources to blow on buji gear.

Trab vario 2 - The toe design is intriguing, but the elastic advantage is not really there from what I read. Also how easy is it to get into the toes? I'm used to holding the toes open from my vipecs, but it might be a nuisance when getting into the bindings from a rap. They have a gapless heel but that spring looks fidgety.

Marker Alpinist - Good on paper, but Marker always has the fanboys and hype. I dislike how they handle their warranty. They can be found cheap though. Surprisingly, I can't find much bitching about them on TGR which is a good sign. Anyone have experience with them in spring snow?

i probably fall under fanboy, but I like my alpinists. Super flat though. So good for some. I have a big heel shim. But they don’t do any funny stuff and seem to ski well and handle snow and ice well.

[Benneke10]

I need a binding to complement my vipecs. I have a few vipecs that I have been using between all my skis since they were released.

I find they ski very well for my needs. I trust them to keep me in and release only when they should. Why do I want another binding? I spend a lot of time with skis on my back on couloirs and hiking to the snow line. Beside weight I want something that is fast at transitioning. The vipecs toes get clogged up in spring snow and they are very hard to take off. Many times I have to put them on by holding the toe open with a pole or by hand, kinda like the old g3 zed.

I am looking at:

ATK crest - Solid and great overall. Supposedly some elastic travel. Dunno about the lack of gapless heels. I encounter jittery crust and refrozen chunks all season. I love the look and feel of the binding, and I would probably put it on my wall after using it for a decade, but at the moment I don't have the resources to blow on buji gear.

Trab vario 2 - The toe design is intriguing, but the elastic advantage is not really there from what I read. Also how easy is it to get into the toes? I'm used to holding the toes open from my vipecs, but it might be a nuisance when getting into the bindings from a rap. They have a gapless heel but that spring looks fidgety.

Marker Alpinist - Good on paper, but Marker always has the fanboys and hype. I dislike how they handle their warranty. They can be found cheap though. Surprisingly, I can't find much bitching about them on TGR which is a good sign. Anyone have experience with them in spring snow?

I've used all 3. ATK says that with their CAM system at the heel with rotating pins, performance is equivalent to a gapless binding. I'm not sure if that's true, you do occasionally get that grinding on the pins feeling at the heel that you get on traditional tech bindings but the release was reliable in my experience. I like the Trab toes, I think they are safer and more elastic than a traditional tech toe but I have no real evidence to back that up. I find they are easier to use in exposed situations since you can manually control the toe arms, but they can sometimes be a little annoying in deep pow. They are easier to use with boots that have ramped tech inserts at the toe, but they also make all tech bindings easier to use. I'm not sure what you mean that the spring looks fidgety, its super solid in my experience and I haven't heard of anyone having issues with it. Lateral elasticity in the Trab heels feels superior to every other brand, its just smoother. Alpinists feel very good while skiing, I think it has something to do with the carbon infused toe piece that creates a dampening effect. The 15mm heel adjustment range can be annoying but they make a 30mm "long travel" version. The toe bumpers on the Alpinists are prominent and sometimes require some shaving of your toe lugs on your boots.

An important factor to consider is ramp angle. Crests have 10mm, Vario.2 have 8mm and Alpinists have 2mm. You can easily shim the toe pieces of the Crests and Trabs to reduce ramp angle using B&D classic shims from skimo.co or buying from Syperjon who makes them. If you want to increase the ramp angle on the Alpinists as some have done you need to make your own shim for the heel. Right now I have the original Trab vario bindings on my 3 pairs of touring skis because I like the toes and lateral elasticity of trab heels, and I'm not totally convinced that zero-gap heels are worth the extra weight. I think the 3 bindings you mentioned are the best currently on the market because the original Varios are no longer made and the Gara Titans lack the lateral elasticity of the Vario series. I wouldn't mind owning and skiing any of them, you can't really go wrong. I had a warranty issue with a pair of Crests last year where the heel elasticity spring was too soft (they mentioned there was a bad batch somewhere..) and I was able to easily get them replaced through Hagan (I had the Hagan branded version) but I heard that Black Diamond will be covering ATK warranty claims in the US going forward.

[fleaches]

I need a binding to complement my vipecs. I have a few vipecs that I have been using between all my skis since they were released.

I find they ski very well for my needs. I trust them to keep me in and release only when they should. Why do I want another binding? I spend a lot of time with skis on my back on couloirs and hiking to the snow line. Beside weight I want something that is fast at transitioning. The vipecs toes get clogged up in spring snow and they are very hard to take off. Many times I have to put them on by holding the toe open with a pole or by hand, kinda like the old g3 zed.

I am looking at:

ATK crest - Solid and great overall. Supposedly some elastic travel. Dunno about the lack of gapless heels. I encounter jittery crust and refrozen chunks all season. I love the look and feel of the binding, and I would probably put it on my wall after using it for a decade, but at the moment I don't have the resources to blow on buji gear.

Trab vario 2 - The toe design is intriguing, but the elastic advantage is not really there from what I read. Also how easy is it to get into the toes? I'm used to holding the toes open from my vipecs, but it might be a nuisance when getting into the bindings from a rap. They have a gapless heel but that spring looks fidgety.

Marker Alpinist - Good on paper, but Marker always has the fanboys and hype. I dislike how they handle their warranty. They can be found cheap though. Surprisingly, I can't find much bitching about them on TGR which is a good sign. Anyone have experience with them in spring snow?

Heads up that if you decide to go crest they are on sale through BD currently: https://www.blackdiamondequipment.co...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

I have some and generally like them, no experience with the trabs or alpinist though.

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[fleaches]

Does anyone here have strong opinions on atk trofeo vs ski trab Gara Titan for a fast and light setup? I have trofeos on some other skis and have no complaints but I'm intrigued by the ski trabs, which are unfortunately a lot harder to find on sale.

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[Benneke10]

It’s a good time to be buying bindings. Vario.2 are ~$300 and alpinists are ~$225 from euro sites right now.

While I am a believer in the Trab toe and love the Vario series, I don’t have much confidence in the Gara Titan heelpiece. I think it releases too easily. I clipped a rock in a couloir at very low speed and had a lateral release at the heel that felt like it came out too easily, and I have a ski partner who had a similar experience so I wouldn’t trust the Gara unlocked for serious skiing. The Trofeo meanwhile has been skied aggressively unlocked by many without issues including several mags in this thread.

For the record all the Gara Titan heels are the same tower, they just switch the spring thickness and material so the easy release is consistent across all versions of the binding.

[Cocximus]

All the pictures I saw of the vario 2 showed them with the brakes which have the weird spring. I thought they are a must. Good to find that the binding can be used without the brakes. It also looks like the vario 2 can be installed without the adjustment track, correct? I think using the toe would be easy with skinny skis, but with wide skis sometimes I like to stick the tails in the snow and click in. Dunno how the lotus would work with the vario toe in exposed transitions. Although I doubt I would the vario with my wide skis.

Who has the vario for $300 ish?

Crest sale. Damn that is a good deal. Buji binding for the price of markers. I have had great experience with BD replacement parts for way out of warranty vipecs. Having BD as the distributor is a big perk.

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[Benneke10]

The brake on the Vario 2 is easily removeable and most don’t use the brake (especially since the widest they offer is 94mm). The brake is the best on the market for tech bindings though. You cannot use the Vario.2 without the spring loaded adjustment track. I prefer the original Vario because you can use them without the tracks.

[rod9301]

The mtn is really good

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[altacoup]

It’s a good time to be buying bindings. Vario.2 are ~$300 and alpinists are ~$225 from euro sites right now.

While I am a believer in the Trab toe and love the Vario series, I don’t have much confidence in the Gara Titan heelpiece. I think it releases too easily. I clipped a rock in a couloir at very low speed and had a lateral release at the heel that felt like it came out too easily, and I have a ski partner who had a similar experience so I wouldn’t trust the Gara unlocked for serious skiing. The Trofeo meanwhile has been skied aggressively unlocked by many without issues including several mags in this thread.

For the record all the Gara Titan heels are the same tower, they just switch the spring thickness and material so the easy release is consistent across all versions of the binding.

What site has alpinist at that price? Checked my usual suspects and alpinist 12 was closer to $300


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[Benneke10]

$216 alpinists https://www.oliunid.com/marker-alpin...alpinismo.html

[Cocximus]

$216 alpinists https://www.oliunid.com/marker-alpin...alpinismo.html

Those guys also have the demo trab for $300. From the specs the only difference is 6g. Anything else?

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[Benneke10]

The demo Trab comes with brakes which are removable. If you are taking the brakes off you need a little plate that sits where the brakes get mounted, not sure if that’s included but skimo co has them for like $1 or so

[altacoup]

Thanks for the link

[Cocximus]

The demo Trab comes with brakes which are removable. If you are taking the brakes off you need a little plate that sits where the brakes get mounted, not sure if that’s included but skimo co has them for like $1 or so

Are you sure? I can't see it on skimo or their catalog https://www.skitrab.com/media/skitra...20_small_2.pdf

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[fleaches]

While I am a believer in the Trab toe and love the Vario series, I don’t have much confidence in the Gara Titan heelpiece. I think it releases too easily. I clipped a rock in a couloir at very low speed and had a lateral release at the heel that felt like it came out too easily, and I have a ski partner who had a similar experience so I wouldn’t trust the Gara unlocked for serious skiing.

Wonder how a trab toe + trofeo heel would do?

Thanks for the input, definitely a hard sell on the Gara titans with trofeos $200 cheaper and I know they are solid.

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[riff]

Wish i could get good CS from Black Diamond- sent in a trofeo toe piece with pivot pin falling out, haven’t heard back in two months. No response to emails.




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[galibier_numero_un]

Two other considerations for which individuals' preferences differ:

Do you like a (second) high riser, or is race style, single riser fine for you?

Do you like infinitely adjustable release in both horizontal and vertical release, or is U-pin race style heel ok for you?

I think these two considerations should high up in your filter selection criteria.

... Thom

[Benneke10]

The Trab toe has some lateral elasticity when skiing unlocked which other tech toes don’t have. This is great when combined with the Vario heel which is also very elastic, the heel can twist quite far and still return to center. I would hesitate to use the Trab toe with a heel from a different brand but I know people who do it without issues. You can still find the original Vario binding at skimo co in the R10 and R12 versions if you want something under 200g, and you can replace the flex plate with an ATK race plate or mount the heel direct on the ski.

I’m surprised Black Diamond hasn’t gotten back to you Riff, I’ve had good experiences with their warranty dept and they are typically inclined to just replace the piece for free when it comes to binding issues.

[Benneke10]

You could easily play around with a Trab toe trofeo heel setup though, as the Trab toe has the same mount pattern as the trofeo toe

[Cocximus]

Two other considerations that are very personal.

Do you like a (second) high riser, or is race style, single riser fine for you?

Do yo like infinitely adjustable release in both horizontal and vertical release, or is U-pin race style ok for you?

I think these two considerations should the first two filters in your selection criteria - or at least in your first four.

... Thom

Good points.

I do steep skinning without risers, so one riser is fine. The crest and vario have 2 + flat. Yes they are not very exactly easy to switch around.

Dunno. Adjustable sounds good, but I think I value elasticity and predictable release more than some non DIN adjustable RV.


Is the ATK crest track metal or plastic?

[galibier_numero_un]

Good points.

I do steep skinning without risers, so one riser is fine. The crest and vario have 2 + flat. Yes they are not very exactly easy to switch around.

Dunno. Adjustable sounds good, but I think I value elasticity and predictable release more than some non DIN adjustable RV.


Is the ATK crest track metal or plastic?

I always like to mention that ;-) Bear in mind that the Crest, RT-10, etc. basically have two positions: flat and low. With pins forward, the riser seats onto the pins. If you rotate the heel 180 degrees, you get flat plus more or less the same height (I think a couple mm higher, but nothing significant).

@Spyderjon or someone else can comment on the track. I think that the Crest and its siblings have a plastic track, but don't quote me on this. The accessory track for the race bindings is (I believe) alloy.

... Thom

[Benneke10]

All of the bindings being discussed have a plastic heel track. Other than skimo race bindings, Im trying to think of light-ish touring bindings that have metal tracks. Salomon MTN, G3 Zed has a metal track but the binding housing that sits in the track is plastic, Plum Oazo and ATK Haute Route have skimo style metal adjustment plates, Plum Pika, Dynafit Speed Turn/Speed Radical have metal tracks but I don't think it matters. Plastic in bindings seems fine (except for the plastic toe levers on the new Dynafit Superlite those seem super fragile)

[Cocximus]

I am cool with "plastic". I ended up getting vario 2. Thanks for all the info and links. Oliunid has amazing prices.

What crampons should I get to go with the vario? Lots of manufacturers for dynafit compatible crampons.

[Cocximus]

So no template for this binding?

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