Are you on team Swallowtail?

[SupreChicken]

I’ve read the pescado reviews, seen some great skiers rip pow and firm snow on them, and I must admit they look fun. Short length has always been a buzzkill, but whatever. They’d make kick turns easy. And I’m way into mustache rocker.

Sego wizard also in the game (though fewer reviews) and that’s a continuous rocker ski with more TGR friendly sizes.

I know the lithic guys built a prototype for their Japan trip last year, but all I heard was “it’s a fun design”.

Both peacados and wizards are gettable on discount now. I don’t think I’m coming off team RES anytime soon, but I’d love to hear some opinions and see them compiled in an easily searchable thread.

Betelaevermoves - daydreaming about the skis I don’t have.

What say the collective?

[SumJongGuy]

My Hanson Hexcel Split Tails are on the short side.. 195cms. Not much float for powder, but as good as anything from the early 1980s.

[tuco]

Just can't seem to see the point of swallowtail myself. I wouldn't mind trying them out though.

Interesting. Never knew Hanson bought Hexcel Skis.
Hexcel itself is still in the composites business

[ACH]

The only skis I've ever tried that were swallowtail were the OG Hexcels and my impression was meh.

I've spent several fine powder days on a Winterstick however and loved it (still have two).

I have not tried any new gen swallow tail skis, so take the comment bellow with a grain of salt.

In general the concept makes total sense to me when it comes to a snowboard, skis not so much. I think a pin tail shape (for skis) makes more sense.


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[Shredhead]

My Hanson Hexcel Split Tails are on the short side.. 195cms. Not much float for powder, but as good as anything from the early 1980s.

Not really, most broke and 195 was girly man length.

[iriponsnow]

WhiteDot Ranger FTW

[El Chupacabra]

I've had a few skis with swallowtail designs. I don't think the tail cut added anything on any of them.

Volkl Sanouk - great ski in untracked pow. Super soft. The flex was what made it magical in pow. Topsheets like skateboard grip tape (brown wood burn graphic ones).

Salomon AK Rocket Lab - surprisingly maneuverable and stiff, yet worked in pow. Very soft bases.

Salomon rocker - heavy tank but floated. Tiring to ski because of the weight.

[SumJongGuy]

Not really, most broke and 195 was girly man length.

Well considering I was 5 foot nothing and 105 pounds in high school they were almost long enough. Good length for bumps. I did a heli on some borrowed 215s back then but mainly skied on women's race skis. The split tails are a retro find. I was on 710 FO and 812s back then. got some VOs in a 204 later but kinda faded out of skiing for awhile until 2007. I grew in college, then got fatter after giving up smoking.

[SupreChicken]

I've had a few skis with swallowtail designs. I don't think the tail cut added anything on any of them.

Volkl Sanouk - great ski in untracked pow. Super soft. The flex was what made it magical in pow. Topsheets like skateboard grip tape (brown wood burn graphic ones).

Salomon AK Rocket Lab - surprisingly maneuverable and stiff, yet worked in pow. Very soft bases.

Salomon rocker - heavy tank but floated. Tiring to ski because of the weight.

So...if I simply imagine the way it would ski without the swallowtail —that’s how it skis with the swallowtail...

[mall walker]

my lightest/shortest/skinniest touring skis (used basically for skimo and summertime hijinks) have a swallowtail... not sure if this counts

[SumJongGuy]

I want some just because they're cool looking..

[thebear]

I'd say it has less to do with the swallowtail and more to do with being purpose-built for deep snow (aka a slightly antiquated version of the RR movement). If you're putting a swallowtail on the thing, you're also likely dialing the rest of the design for those conditions.

Sanouk is a perfect example. Not something that you'd use day-to-day, lonnng floppy tip that doesn't take to crud or cutup well, but get them in fresh and they rip.

[Tailwind]

I have some Pescado's I bought after seeing the general level of stoke and I've been convinced that the swallow tail design is about more than looks.

The easy notion is you can have extra effective edge for firm snow while having less tail behind you in soft snow. Compared to early taper in the tail you essentially loose more surface area in the tail.

You honestly don't fully notice the swallow tail in anything less than 14-18" of untracked. When it starts getting that deep on the Pescado you can lean back (or even standing neutral and going slow) and the ski the tail will sink. The fairly traditional mount and general lack of surface area in the tail let the whole ski sink down. I am not typically good at buttering a ski but it feels more like manual'ing a mountain bike and in deep snow is honestly pretty easy. What this lets you do is get crazy amounts of lift out of the ski and pivot on a dime. The other part of the Pescado that's interesting though is the fairly solid flex and giant tips let you weight the shovels once you are at speed and the ski will sit fairly high in the snow and be fast in deep powder.

Also, its been said everywhere but the 180cm length isn't as big of an issue as you might think. In fact I would argue that Swallow Tails mainly make sense in short lengths with traditional mounts. You just need to make sure you don't land in the back seat off anything big...

[babybear]

We have a set of the pescados and they are so fun.
we brought them to Hokkaido and they were perfect for the tight trees and deep snow.
The length is interesting - I was also skeptical but the sheer amount of surface area makes the length less of an issue for float and then the length makes them so nimble

Andrew and I have the same bsl so we can both ski them too lol although it is a little funny when he is skiing those and I am on a longer ski than him
I'll bring them to BBI if anyone with a 293 bsl wants to try them out. we have them mounted with cast so it does make them quite a bit heavier
They also were surprisingly easy to ski on trail/ groomers too. not as slow edge to edge as one wd think

[McDee]

I want some just because they're cool looking..

I went all Betel before that was a thing years ago and thought the same.
At the time a frankenquaddump sounded like a good idea
I was tydying up the cellar and thought i'd take some pics



200cm Big Dump with a M1111 tail





And for scale



Nowadays knees and back squeal and hide in a corner just at the thought

sorry can't get the photos upright....

[PlayItLeo]

Holy shit, those are rad!


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[SupreChicken]

The fat pescado nose -- tour with G3 145mm skins? Anyone know of anything wider? If it really performs like this ^^^ and it’s short and weighs < 9 lbs...

Sounds like fun...

[thommy21]

I still like my Moment Comi’s. Mainly in deep snow and places where I can open them up a bit and be able to mess around with different types of turns. The ski can be pretty playful.

[Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo]

Salomon AK Rocket Lab - surprisingly maneuverable and stiff, yet worked in pow. Very soft bases.

These were my daily driver for 9 years and my impression was the same as el-chups, swallowtail added nothing. As maneuverable and fun as they were at that length and stiffness I always though if they chopped 5cm of the tail to make it a flattail and stiffened just a tad I would have brought every pair I could find to last me the rest of my days.

[cat in january]

Guessing design does take the falling leaf out of the bag of tricks so limiting there.

I did lust after a pair of Salomon AK lab swallowtails back in the day