First touring setup - need help with picking skis

[Tobsen]

Hey guys,

I'm looking to get my first touring setup and dont know what skis to get.
First, some background info:
Im 6'4, 225lbs and ski in the European Alps. Pretty strong skier.

Usually I like some tip and tail rocker in my skis, but dont know much about touring. Is it going to be a pain in the ass with less grip area?
Also nice to have a twin-tip for the occasional switch riding.
Should handle every condition, but will probably not go out when the snow is really shitty.

Anyway, narrowed it to a few skis, but open for other suggestions:
- Bentchetler 100 (Blister review is good, but are those too heavy for a dedicated touring ski at 1880 gr? especially when new to touring?)
- Wildcat Tour 108 (sounds awesome on paper, though no reviews and maybe a tad too wide as a everyday touring ski?)
- Amplid Facelift 102/108 (dito on paper, very expensive though)

More dedicated touring skis I looked at (Though they are not twin tips, but maybe better as a dedicated touring ski):
- Black Crows Navis Freebird
- Black Diamond Helio 95/105
- Völkl VTA 98/108

And then there is the binding question.
Im quite intrigued by the Shift, although it is heavier than say the Tecton. Still worth to have a alpine toe on the way down?

Regarding boots I will get whatever fits me well.

Any input is appreciated.
Thanks

[Ville]

Hey guys,

I'm looking to get my first touring setup and dont know what skis to get.
First, some background info:
Im 6'4, 225lbs and ski in the European Alps. Pretty strong skier.

Usually I like some tip and tail rocker in my skis, but dont know much about touring. Is it going to be a pain in the ass with less grip area?
Also nice to have a twin-tip for the occasional switch riding.
Should handle every condition, but will probably not go out when the snow is really shitty.

Anyway, narrowed it to a few skis, but open for other suggestions:
- Bentchetler 100 (Blister review is good, but are those too heavy for a dedicated touring ski at 1880 gr? especially when new to touring?)
- Wildcat Tour 108 (sounds awesome on paper, though no reviews and maybe a tad too wide as a everyday touring ski?)
- Amplid Facelift 102/108 (dito on paper, very expensive though)

More dedicated touring skis I looked at (Though they are not twin tips, but maybe better as a dedicated touring ski):
- Black Crows Navis Freebird
- Black Diamond Helio 95/105
- Völkl VTA 98/108

And then there is the binding question.
Im quite intrigued by the Shift, although it is heavier than say the Tecton. Still worth to have a alpine toe on the way down?

Regarding boots I will get whatever fits me well.

Any input is appreciated.
Thanks

Don't know what skis you have now, but good option is get good touring bindings and mount them some thing you have and like. Especially since you are strong skier and not fearher light. Light skis suck on variable snow. Skis around 2kg do just fine under about 1500 vert meter days and you have much more fun going down. Then after some tours you'll get idea do you want light misery sticks to race up or semi light skis to have some fun going down. Or maybe some heavier skis to sweat when going up and destroy everything going down [emoji16]

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using TGR Forums mobile app

[reckless toboggan]

Praxis Rx

[Tobsen]

Don't know what skis you have now, but good option is get good touring bindings and mount them some thing you have and like. Especially since you are strong skier and not fearher light. Light skis suck on variable snow. Skis around 2kg do just fine under about 1500 vert meter days and you have much more fun going down. Then after some tours you'll get idea do you want light misery sticks to race up or semi light skis to have some fun going down. Or maybe some heavier skis to sweat when going up and destroy everything going down [emoji16]

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using TGR Forums mobile app

Thanks for the answer.
I have a Kartel 98, Sir Francis Bacon 190 and a Bibby.
Dont really know if I want to remount the SFB with a touring binding, though. Probably gonna sell that one for something chargier soon anyway.
Plus I can get quite good deals on skis, when I buy Boots and Bindings in a set anyway.

Definitely dont want super light uphill race sticks, but dont want the entry to touring be harder for me as it is.

Praxis Rx

I think that it would be too wide and too heavy

Thanks again

[Ville]

Thanks for the answer.
I have a Kartel 98, Sir Francis Bacon 190 and a Bibby.
Dont really know if I want to remount the SFB with a touring binding, though. Probably gonna sell that one for something chargier soon anyway.
Plus I can get quite good deals on skis, when I buy Boots and Bindings in a set anyway.

Definitely dont want super light uphill race sticks, but dont want the entry to touring be harder for me as it is.



I think that it would be too wide and too heavy

Thanks again

I used Salomon QST 99 and Atk freerider 14 last season. Very good do it all setup. I mostly ride around Lyngen alps and northern Finland so quite similar snow pack as Alps. For deep days I have Moment Donner Party and Beast 16.

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using TGR Forums mobile app

[nickel]

frankly you're over thinking this. Figure out what skis are shaped in a way you know you like to ski on and get something that follows that shape philosophy in a relatively light weight package.

don't stress about the effects of rocker on the skin track too much. it can indeed reduce skin grip a bit but only on the very icy sections at which point a new skin track can often be worth making if the old one is too steep anyways.

about twin tips. these can be a real pain with skin attachments. if you do get a twin, g3 make an excellent twin tip specific tail clip.

about skiing switch on touring gear. I dunno how I'd feel about doing that on any tech binder. do so at your own risk.

[Tobsen]

frankly you're over thinking this. Figure out what skis are shaped in a way you know you like to ski on and get something that follows that shape philosophy in a relatively light weight package.

don't stress about the effects of rocker on the skin track too much. it can indeed reduce skin grip a bit but only on the very icy sections at which point a new skin track can often be worth making if the old one is too steep anyways.

about twin tips. these can be a real pain with skin attachments. if you do get a twin, g3 make an excellent twin tip specific tail clip.

about skiing switch on touring gear. I dunno how I'd feel about doing that on any tech binder. do so at your own risk.

Haha, arent we all overthinking when it comes to gear?
Just trying to get a tendency for width and weight from you guys.

Thanks for the hint on twin tip specific tail clips.

Regarding skiing switch: No experience with tech binders, but it sounds like it would make sense to opt for the Shift then?

[HukuTa_KydecHuk]

You already have Bibbys and you think twice about Bibby Tour? No brainer for me.
Also be careful with amplid. Not saying they are all bad, but I had rockwells and quality was trash. Buddy of mine was sponsored by them and i've seen all sorts of troubles - delam, blown sidewalls, blown edges. But I also saw pretty durable pairs. Guess it's a coinflip

[SkiLyft]

Praxis Backcountry - own the 180 and 190. They have the design dialed.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[PNW_Skier206]

I’d look at the 190 4FRNT Ravens although I think they may be changing the ski a bit this year. Light and handles variable pretty well.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[I've seen black diamonds!]

You are a big dude. Forget ultra light skis. I'd aim for 1800-2000 grams. People have very different preferences about touring skis. It's hard to know what is right for you until you've done it a bunch. But VWerks will like be better for you that VTA.

Sent from my Pixel using TGR Forums mobile app

[gregL]

Any of those skis you mention will work fine (never seen the Amplid, though) it just depends on what sort of touring you have in mind. 300 meter laps at your local area are appropriate for your "group A" while week long hut trips or extended ski mountaineering trips pretty much demand something from your "group B" or even lighter. If you end up doing a lot of touring, you'll probably want one of each with boots to match.

Most twin tip designs tour fine, almost all the grip is ahead of the tail rocker anyway. The problems are ski attachment (above-mentioned G3 tail attachment works well, as does grinding a notch into your ski), putting the skis into a loop on your pack when you need to boot, planting the tails in the snow while booting or resting or setting up an anchor, etc.

Ask what gear the people you plan to tour with are using; if your fitness level is comparable it makes sense to get similar gear (i.e. width and weight of skis, boots and bindings).

How much switch skiing are you planning to do while touring? That's probably not a good enough reason to get the Shift over another binding; the Shift is really designed as a "quiver of one" binding solution with alpine binding reliability, but it has definite tradeoffs in terms of touring efficiency. If you set your alpine DIN at 11 or less, there are other bindings to consider.

[nickel]

I agree with someone above that if you like the bibby in conditions that you plan on touring in, get the wildcat tour. No brainer.

As for skiing switch on touring gear, I wouldn't. it's made to be light so probably strong in specific directions. Heel retention can be an issue at the best of times so tread carefully.

[sheel44]

I demoed a pair of helio 116 last year ended up not getting them cuz of price. I really liked then and didnt think that they sacrificed weight for performance. In fact I was surprised how well they handled in some hard packed snow. I havent skied the helio 105s but if they are like the 116 I would recommend.

Sent from my SM-G950U using TGR Forums mobile app

[rod9301]

I have the vwerks katana, really good ski

Also I would get the Salomon mtn binding. Light, skis great, and the toe springs are very strong, so much lower risk of pre releasing.

Also they don't ice up

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using TGR Forums mobile app

[1000-oaks]

Big fan of Helio 116 in 185 (STP had the short legth last I checked), but hear the 175cm 105 is soft and hand-flexing it supported that rumor. Popular ski though, it must work.

[Tobsen]

Thanks a lot for all of your answers.
I'm not really smarter what skis to pick, rather there are even more on the list now.
But I guess I'll skip skiing switch on the touring setup and go with the Tecton over the Shift.

As for the Wildcat: The ski is really high on my list, it is a different ski from the OG bibby with the narrower waist and lighter weight, though. Also, I would have to order it from the states, which can be quite expensive with customs duties etc. On the other hand, the Helio ist not that much cheaper.

Is the general consensus that a 105-110 width ski is fine for everyday touring?
Most people I see in Europe are on something like Backland 85s or even skinnier Dynafit sticks.

Cheers!

[nickel]

be honest with yourself about the range of conditions you will use them in and what your objectives for touring are when you pick your ski.

if you're touring to ski soft untracked snow, get a ski for that. if you're touring to access icy death couloirs, you should pick something appropriate for that.

there definitely seems to be a big difference in gear choice between Europe and NA. I spent last 6 years touring on skis between 112 and 117. this year they will be 128 & 94. both long ish @192. i am not new to touring. i tour to ski so i get skis i want to ski on. if you tour to run up the hill then great, get a tiny stick of carbon. ymmv.

[gregL]

Is the general consensus that a 105-110 width ski is fine for everyday touring?

Only in North America. In Europe they will laugh at you.

American ski tourists with a lot of experience will normally have a narrower, lighter setup for spring and summer (currently 95mm is popular). Europeans who tour on super light gear because their guide does would actually have a better skiing experience on something wider and heavier.

[gregL]

Don't worry about what everyone else is doing unless you happen to be touring with them.

You may be exceptionally fit and able to keep up all day on a wider, heavier setup.

You may be an exceptionally skilled and balanced skier and able to rip variable conditions on ultra light gear.

I'd say the best compromise for most people who want a versatile touring setup is somewhere in the 100-103mm range, but you have to do what's right for you.

[Tobsen]

Only in North America. In Europe they will laugh at you.

American ski tourists with a lot of experience will normally have a narrower, lighter setup for spring and summer (currently 95mm is popular). Europeans who tour on super light gear because their guide does would actually have a better skiing experience on something wider and heavier.

Well, I dont mind being laughed at. Especially if the one who is laughing at me is running up the hill with speedos. Definitely gonna be touring to ski down.
Although, if I think about it, it might make sense to get something around the 100mm mark for everything and then get a second wider powder specific touring setup.

[GeezerSteve]

I'd say the best compromise for most people who want a versatile touring setup is somewhere in the 100-103mm range, but you have to do what's right for you.

Agreed. FWIW, I weigh a bit more than OP and if I were limited to one pair of touring skis, it'd be 95-102mm waist.

Most twin tip designs tour fine, almost all the grip is ahead of the tail rocker anyway. The problems are ski attachment (above-mentioned G3 tail attachment works well, as does grinding a notch into your ski), putting the skis into a loop on your pack when you need to boot, planting the tails in the snow while booting or resting or setting up an anchor, etc.

All that and kick turns on twin tip skis are complete pain in the ass. Flat or near flat tails for touring is the way to go.

[bigdude2468]

I agree with someone above that if you like the bibby in conditions that you plan on touring in, get the wildcat tour. No brainer.

As for skiing switch on touring gear, I wouldn't. it's made to be light so probably strong in specific directions. Heel retention can be an issue at the best of times so tread carefully.

For FWIW I ski the Deathwish and Deathwish Tour. Being on similar skis with the triple camber sure makes things nice.

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

Praxis Backcountry - own the 180 and 190. They have the design dialed.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

This is a good call. I ski the BC105s in all conditions. As a larger-than-me euro-dude consider the Fischer Ranger 108 in 188cm. Great do-everything ski and they seem to work fine in deep snow...

[SUPERIOR]

This is a pretty good thread so far ... only thing that I’ll add is that perception vs reality will make a difference when starting out.

I always thought I’d be skiing and landing switch when first getting into BC touring.

Turns out I spent tons of energy skinning with heavier skis when I had partners who just wanted to ski powder. The idea of building jumps and hitting big cliffs sort of faded as I realized the implications of rescue and injury far from home.

For me, using a 105-115mm 185-190cm ski that’s stiff and not super heavy is the ticket. I’m 6’0 and 190lbs for reference. I ski a 187 praxis carbon GPO in powder and a 187 Moment Tallac in firm conditions. I use tech binders from Plum and Fritschi.

Having the energy to do laps and ski powder all day is what I have discovered makes me happy. You may differ.



Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums