What Happened to UST?

[GoldMember]

This has probably been covered elsewhere so forgive me for starting a new rant. Having said that, what happened to UST tires and rims that allowed tubeless-ready to take over so much of the market? My old bike (2001 Giant NRS XTC-1) had UST rims and tires and was fantastic. I never put in sealant, never had to tape, no valve problems, had minimal leakage and it worked great.

My new bike has tubeless ready and since the day I got it, it's been a hassle. Right now, the stem on the rearl wheel needs to be replaced and both tires leak air faster than my old one, in spite of being only six weeks old. This whole system so far as I can tell, is inferior to the UST I had before. Between taping and sealant alone, this is way more trouble than it should be. Why did the industry swing away from UST? And, since Mavic/Hutchinson?Michelin came out with UST in 1999, will having any patents expire open the industry to move toward UST in the future? This whole tubeless-ready thing seems like a big step backward in technology.

/rant

[toast2266]

Ust is more expensive to build (airtight rims) and the tires are both more expensive and super heavy (because they're airtight too). And without sealant, they don't seal punctures as well. You can obviously add sealant, but that's just more weight.

A few companies make rims and tires that have a ust compliant bead seat but are designed to be run with sealant (wtb, for one), so I don't think the patent is the issue. I think it's just that most people have concluded that tubeless with sealant is better. Pumping up the tire occasionally is preferable to spending a bunch of money to have a lot of extra rotating weight.

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[evdog]

I always assumed UST just came to be known as tubeless ready and is more or less the same interface. Dunno. I have very few issues with tubeless.

My main annoyance is tire sidewalls and tread seem to weep fluid constantly (maxxis).

[GoldMember]

I don't know that they're THAT much heavier. I don't notice a real difference in rotating weight and they're certainly not as heavy as a tubed tire. That said, I'm running a 2.4" with a heavier tread design than my old 2.125" on my old bike. Plus, as a 27.5 versus my old 26, there's more weight impact from that as well so I'm not sold on the weight issue as being a serious culprit. I'd give up a little weight disadvantage to not have the issues I've experienced to date with tubeless ready.

I should note that I went to a tubeless ready tire on my old bike when I had to replace tires and had a number of problems then, too. Ultimately I put tubes in and was better off. So far, not a fan of tubeless ready.

[skaredshtles]

This has probably been covered elsewhere so forgive me for starting a new rant. Having said that, what happened to UST tires and rims that allowed tubeless-ready to take over so much of the market? My old bike (2001 Giant NRS XTC-1) had UST rims and tires and was fantastic. I never put in sealant, never had to tape, no valve problems, had minimal leakage and it worked great.

Heh. I had that *exact* same bike. Probably with the same wheels/tires. Pinch-flatted the UST the 2nd ride I did. Went back to tubes for the next 8-ish years.

WRT your inquiry - I think it was just a standard that, for various reasons, never "caught"...

[Dantheman]

Didn't Mavic basically open-source the design? Pretty sure it's not a patent issue.

WRT your inquiry - I think it was just a standard that, for various reasons, never "caught"...

Combination of weight, the very real need for a liquid sealant, cost, and probably being a bit ahead of its time.

[toast2266]

I don't know that they're THAT much heavier.

All other things being equal, I think most UST tires were coming in around 200g heavier than their non-ust equivalents. That's a lot.

[GoldMember]

Didn't Mavic basically open-source the design? Pretty sure it's not a patent issue.

I think they originally licensed the technology. May have open-sourced it later, I'm not sure

Combination of weight, the very real need for a liquid sealant, cost, and probably being a bit ahead of its time.

Maybe weight but again, tubes weigh in heavier in the overall scheme so, not that much of factor.

As for sealant, in the 17 years I owned the previous bike, I never used sealant and, in fact, didn't even realize it was a thing. With the integrated rim having no access to the spokes, there was no taping or elements related to anything in the tire cavity with the exception of the stem base, which was rubber gasketed and seemingly self-sealed. I never really had any problems related to leakage to speak of.

Cost, I suspect, is really the principle reason.

All other things being equal, I think most UST tires were coming in around 200g heavier than their non-ust equivalents. That's a lot.

But when I got frustrated with the non-UST equivalent, I put in tubes. That probably added at least 200g per wheel so any weight advantage was lost. I'd take the UST over that.

[Dantheman]

As for sealant, in the 17 years I owned the previous bike, I never used sealant and, in fact, didn't even realize it was a thing. With the integrated rim having no access to the spokes, there was no taping or elements related to anything in the tire cavity with the exception of the stem base, which was rubber gasketed and seemingly self-sealed. I never really had any problems related to leakage to speak of.

Do you not have goatheads, cacti or other puncture sources where you live? You need sealant for those.

[GoldMember]

In the time I had that bike, I had one flat tire from a thorn. And no, we really don't have those kind of puncture sources to speak of. The flat I had, I put a Scab on it inside the tire, inflated it with a frame-mount pump, which amazingly worked pretty well, considering I had to dismount the tire to put the patch on. The bead reset fairly easily and I was off and running. I was really happy with how I patched the tire when compared to patching a tube. It really was very easy to fix.

[Dantheman]

Well, here and many other places there are lots of thorny things. No repair required with sealant, you can ride through that shit with impunity.

[evdog]

Funny, I never expected to have problems with thorny things around SLC, so when I did a big trip one year I had left tubes in rather than reinstall tubeless. Everything went well til I did the Perry Cyn - Ben Lomond - N Skyline ride. Within 3 minutes up Perry Canyon both tires were flat and I was picking about 20 goat heads out of each tire. I had 2 spare tubes but couldn't continue, and even with them had to limp into town to the nearest bike shop. Bought half dozen tubes with removable cores and a container of stans. Got back to the trail around noon and did the ride. Stans did its job and had no further problems. Finished right at sunset. Good times!

[Dantheman]

Hah! They're god damned everywhere at the bottom of Perry.

[Jonny Snow]

I think they originally licensed the technology. May have open-sourced it later, I'm not sure





Maybe weight but again, tubes weigh in heavier in the overall scheme so, not that much of factor.

As for sealant, in the 17 years I owned the previous bike, I never used sealant and, in fact, didn't even realize it was a thing. With the integrated rim having no access to the spokes, there was no taping or elements related to anything in the tire cavity with the exception of the stem base, which was rubber gasketed and seemingly self-sealed. I never really had any problems related to leakage to speak of.

Cost, I suspect, is really the principle reason.



But when I got frustrated with the non-UST equivalent, I put in tubes. That probably added at least 200g per wheel so any weight advantage was lost. I'd take the UST over that.

Well, UST isn't dead, it's just as unpopular as it's always been. All of mavic's high end aluminum rim wheels use full UST solid sealed rim beds, with FORE drilling and alloy spokes. If you hunt around you should be able to pick up pair around $700 (ebay with coupon).

Tubeless ready tires have UST compatible beads, but various levels of sealing. Maxxis EXO/TR are basically air tight with only the tiniest of leaks. You can set them up with 2 ounces of thinned out sealant (1:1 w/water) to seal any micro leaks, the sealant will dry out quick but they will stay sealed indefinitely.

[robnow]

I'm perfectly happy with tubeless ready on mtbs, haven't had any issues in years.

Wasn't the problem with UST the requirement for tighter manufacturing tolerances? Probably not so difficult on the rim side but possibly harder on the tire side?

Mavic brought UST last year to the road side and is heavily marketing it where tubeless ready is not as easy as on the mtb side. Most of Mavic's road rims are now UST and also open sourced, however a year later it still seems like no other tire manufactures are producing a UST road tire.