2018-19 Praxis Skis Info and Resource Thread

[grinch]

Been doing some ski testing this week. I really want to thin the herd.

On this trip, my 182 Down CD 114s, 187 GPOs (Enduro/Veneer/#4) and 2014, 186 Billy Goats. It's been the perfect week in the Wasatch for these 3 skis.

At this point, the odd man out is looking like the GPOs. If that's the case, I'll offer 'em here before gear swap, to minimize the riff-raff.

I'm seeing the GPOs as the 'tweener skis of the 3. I was however, quite surprised how much more predictable in deep stuff the 187s are than my 182 Enduro/Carbon/Nylon/#4 GPOs.

This feels more like the added length and longer turn radius of the 187s, although they are also damper (veneer and no carbon - not a big deal in soft snow).

On 0-6" days, I'd grab the Downs, due to their shorter length, and on deep days, it's the Goats by a hair, although a surprisingly difficult choice between the two.

And there ya have it.

... Thom

Makes total sense. Gpo is slice and dice precision and the bg cares little about being precise. I think a heavy core veneer 182 gpo would make a difficult decision almost impossible. Nothing is going to make a bg carve like a gpo but a heavy core veneer gpo will be every bit as damp crud smashing pow surfing tool as the bg i think by just imagining my endoro nylons with a heavy core veneer. Just requiring a touch more focus on pressure but precision is the pay off. Really like both skis attributes. Good mix. Can pin it on the bg and know it wont toss me like driving a paris/dakar desert racer or pin it on the gpo and feel like its on rails like a porsche. Im guessing most of the difference is the splay differences and to a lesser degree the radius. Heavy snow i think ill reach for the bg over my enduro core nylon top sheet gpo. Heavy core veneer would be a flip of the coin. Be fun to try those CD's. Sound like a capable ski

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[galibier_numero_un]

Makes total sense. Gpo is slice and dice precision and the bg cares little about being precise. I think a heavy core veneer 182 gpo would make a difficult decision almost impossible. Nothing is going to make a bg carve like a gpo but a heavy core veneer gpo will be every bit as damp crud smashing pow surfing tool as the bg i think by just imagining my endoro nylons with a heavy core veneer. Just requiring a touch more focus on pressure but precision is the pay off. Really like both skis attributes. Good mix. Can pin it on the bg and know it wont toss me like driving a paris/dakar desert racer or pin it on the gpo and feel like its on rails like a porsche. Im guessing most of the difference is the splay differences and to a lesser degree the radius. Heavy snow i think ill reach for the bg over my enduro core nylon top sheet gpo. Heavy core veneer would be a flip of the coin. Be fun to try those CD's. Sound like a capable ski

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That's one of the best descriptions I've read, @grinch.

... Thom

[grinch]

That's one of the best descriptions I've read, @grinch.

... Thom

Just got the bg's and had some amazing days on them after amazing days on my tried and true gpo. Incredibly fun days to compare. We seem to like similar skis so thought id throw my recent thoughts in there. I guess we were having fun "testing" on the same days. Ez to be thorough testing when the snow is delivering. Cant stop "testing"
Also i ended up +.5 on the bg. Zero issues. Still looks about 1-1.5 cm behind my -1 mount on my gpo

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[galibier_numero_un]

Yes, fun days "testing" (tasting?). I could easily see liking the BGs at +.5 or so, since 186 is a long ski for me.

The 187 GPOs are at only -.5 (I think) for my 296 BSLs. I could go back a bit (I've had my 182s at -1.7 and loved them), but at 187, I think I'd hate this mount point in tighter terrain.

My buddy commented after the late morning switch to the 182 CD 114s, how much more relaxed and confident I was on them.

Sometimes (most of the time?) ya gotta shut out the noise and peer pressure and go with the length that works for you ;-)

... Thom

[steveski]

Thom, please never leave the cult of GPO. Sincerely, the hordes.

[galibier_numero_un]

There will always be at least one GPO in the quiver.

I like @grinch's thoughts about a 182, heavy hitter, veneer GPO (maybe carbon) for inbounds use.

My 182 mounted for touring calls into question whether I need anything between it and my EXPs.

The GPO covers so much ground, that I scratch my head as to when I'd ever choose a 104-108 ski over it on any given day.

Maybe if I ever manage to go on a 6 day, European tour, a light, 100mm ski would make sense, but here in Colorado, I don't see it.

... Thom

[PeachesNCream]

There will always be at least one GPO in the quiver.

I like @grinch's thoughts about a 182, heavy hitter, veneer GPO (maybe carbon) for inbounds use.

My 182 mounted for touring calls into question whether I need anything between it and my EXPs.

The GPO covers so much ground, that I scratch my head as to when I'd ever choose a 104-108 ski over it on any given day.

Maybe if I ever manage to go on a 6 day, European tour, a light, 100mm ski would make sense, but here in Colorado, I don't see it.

... Thom

Have you skied the MVP? How does it compare?

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[SupreChicken]

Have you skied the MVP? How does it compare?

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Mind vomit -

I’ve skied both. Different tools. Both fun. MVP is a bit more progressive mount. I was happiest on both skis at -1. I have yet to find a more predictable ride than the GPO. GPO is great in pow and tight spaces. MVP is competent in those same conditions. Really shines on firm snow. Requires a bit more input. High angle aggressive carving on the MVP is really fun.

[grinch]

Thom, please never leave the cult of GPO. Sincerely, the hordes.

^^this , id like a supply of gpo's 4 evaar. My 4yr old og's may last forever though

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[abraham]

Mind vomit -

I have yet to find a more predictable ride than the GPO.

This is a great way to put it at least for anything soft. I have a pair of 100 waisted skis that are more predictable but way less versatile. GPOs have been my daily driver for the last 6 or 7 seasons (I think!) They never were exactly what I wanted but they just worked.

[jrredho]

Since this discussion has veered back to the GPO I thought it might be a good time to ask the collective something about them. I picked up a pair in 175cm, vanilla build, this Fall after Keith made his announcement with the intention of mounting them with some Lynx tele bindings. I will be using them mostly for sidecountry and shorter bc excursions.

I've been pretty happy with the BCs (180) and Yetis (182) I own mounted at 2cm behind the dot, but you guys seem to be going -1 to -1.5 on this ski, albeit on longer versions. Have any of you tried going further back or has that range become the de facto?

Thanks!

john

[grinch]

I was on the dot on my yetis and bc's . All the touring skis felt right on the dimple. -1 on the gpo. Does that make your mount -3? Out of my wheelhouse. Must be some tele gpo mags out there

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[hoarhey]

Since this discussion has veered back to the GPO I thought it might be a good time to ask the collective something about them. I picked up a pair in 175cm, vanilla build, this Fall after Keith made his announcement with the intention of mounting them with some Lynx tele bindings. I will be using them mostly for sidecountry and shorter bc excursions.

I've been pretty happy with the BCs (180) and Yetis (182) I own mounted at 2cm behind the dot, but you guys seem to be going -1 to -1.5 on this ski, albeit on longer versions. Have any of you tried going further back or has that range become the de facto?

Thanks!

john

I went -1 cm on the 175 GPO's and with dynafit verticals and dynafit mercury boots, felt like I was too forward.
That was remedied when I had a B&D shim installed under the toe.

One the 182's with duke style marker bindings, I have felt less forward at the dimple, to which I moved from my original mount of -2 cm, which felt a hair back for resort skiing, but would have been ok for soft snow touring for me.

[jrredho]

Great info, guys, thanks again!

I'll probably go -2cm to start, and see how it goes.

cheers,
john

[dschane]

Can't speak about GPO, but I'm 2.5cm back on skinny Rx's and loving them - inserts for Outlaw and Lynx. I've gone -2 to -3 on every Praxis ski and have just determined that the Praxis crew testers prefer their mounts more forward than I do. Some voodoo is probably involved in all that.

[steveski]

I went -1 cm on the 175 GPO's and with dynafit verticals and dynafit mercury boots, felt like I was too forward.
That was remedied when I had a B&D shim installed under the toe.

One the 182's with duke style marker bindings, I have felt less forward at the dimple, to which I moved from my original mount of -2 cm, which felt a hair back for resort skiing, but would have been ok for soft snow touring for me.

Binding ramp angle plays a big factor in this discussion and is often overlooked. Glad you shimmed the toe and had improvement.

[galibier_numero_un]

Binding ramp angle plays a big factor in this discussion and is often overlooked. Glad you shimmed the toe and had improvement.

Absolutely!

On my 182, Enduro/Carbon/Nylon/#4s, I've had Wardens at -1.5, Vipecs at -1.75, and BD Helio 200s at about -1.2. The much flatter ramp angle makes the Helios feel like the Vipecs' placement.

I realize this is anecdotal, but it's coming from someone who had always considered himself very sensitive to stack height, but not very much so to ramp angle, and reasonably sensitive to placement.

BTW, I'm gonna put those 187 GPOs up on gear swap in the next few days. More and more, I'm liking @grinch's dream size and layup. We're suckers for the same stuff ;-)

... Thom

[grinch]

Haa ya i have to figure out how to get a pair. Fingers crossed theres a custom sale this summer.
I like that ramp angle info. Ive got a pair of xenics coming but id like to have some vipecs too. I guess i could use my tectons though. Insert a fat ski for both the xenic toe and tecton toe and use the heel plates to swap between heels

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[gritter]

I'm 1cm back on 182s mounted Tele and feel too far back. I normally mount on the line and wish I'd done so with the gpo.

[hoarhey]

Binding ramp angle plays a big factor in this discussion and is often overlooked. Glad you shimmed the toe and had improvement.

It really does!
Thanks for highlighting that factor.

My story...
I had a yurt based touring trip scheduled and these UL 175 GPO's were my purchase for that purpose.
So, yeah, I was worried when I took the setup to Snowmass to ski inbounds as a test and felt too far forward.

Probably because of this forum, I went with the shims under the toe, and it was only the weekend before the monday start of the trip that I was able to ski the newly shimmed set-up on a lap on Teton Pass, Glory down to Coal Creek.

It was night and day, I could drive the ski in soft snow without fear of going forward.

I am thinking of doing the same thing to my 177 protests with the same dynafit verticals.
Tip of ski seems too sensitive to forward pressure, so that's why I'm thinking of installing shims on the protests as well (I know it might seem ridiculous).

So, you are right, my experience with the marker style frame binding (marker tour) and being "ok" on my 182's at the dimple and feeling slightly back at -2 cm (even in alpine boots) likely stems from the ramp angle of the marker binding being much flatter than most bindings.

Marker Tour to Dynafit vertical (dramatic difference (increase in ramp angle).

[steveski]

I have GPOs and protests mounted for vipecs and I need to look closely at the mount point between the two (neither toes are shimmed).

On the GPO I rarely notice ramp angle on a smooth snow surface (either firm or soft) but in variable of 3D snow like cut up resort chop I struggle to balance the ski from tip to tail.

On the protest I haven't noticed any differences and I've skied them in similar snow alot. I need to carefully look at mount point difference because I think they are within 2cm of each other, but if I recall they are different in relation to the recommended line.

[hoarhey]

Half of my quiver is GPO's (2 of 4) and waist widths are 106-128 mm.
106 is a dynafit grand teton with vertical's so not a good inbounds setup
111 is UL praxis GPO with dynafit verticals so touring setup only

with going with my wife's family a lot more to Snowmass, I've come to develop my high speed groomer skiing as well, and while I have been having no lack of fun with my 182 GPO's in flex 3+ with carbon (OG versions)...

I had an order in for a heavy core skinny 182 GPO which I thought, even at 106 would have been great (for me) for high speed inbounds skiing, but alas, due to financial reasons at the time, I had to pull the plug on the order.

Almost had 3 GPO's, there...

[Cars Suck]

For what it's worth, my 182 GPO 3+, nylon + carbon are mounted at +2 (had some weird hole conflicts so it was either there or -3cm) and before I took them out I thought I had ruined my favorite skis. But that +2 mount makes them even more playful while being just as stable on groomers and hard pack. I've got about 30+ days on them at that mount and I wouldn't go back.

They've essentially become my all time favorite ski for 4"-8" of new snow. They absolutely rip those mid-week sleeper storms at Squaw where things stay untracked a bit longer. That mount also makes an already great tree + technical terrain ski (i.e., Granite area at Squaw) and absolute phenomenal ripper. So quick to pivot and slarve and pop off features and I don't notice any tip dive in that mid-storm range.

I mentioned the new mount to Keith and he said +2 is generally where Tabke mounts his comp skis so there's that detail too.

[Cars Suck]

Oh, and thanks N1CK for the update on The Ski. Was wondering when the reviews were going pop up. Seems like a great West Coast DD option.

I wish they had made those sticks in other lengths. Not sure only going with 185cm was a good choice. I ended up going with a Fischer Ranger 102 for that spot in the quiver at 177cm - and am seriously digging that ski, despite being a bit too short and squirrelly above 40-45mph with the huge tip rocker - but was close to pulling the trigger on The Ski.

If they had done a 179cm like the RX I would have been all over it.

[galibier_numero_un]

So yeah ... these bad boys are heading to gear swap tomorrow or Tuesday. There's one base repair that's less than "professional". The bases are in very good shape, and the edges are in great shape. As soon as I repair that one base repair to my OCD standards, I'll be posting them.

187cm, Enduro/Veneer/#4. The Warden mount nets out to -1cm for BSL=304 and the heel extends to 334 (which would yield a -2 mount). More details via PM, and of course once they hit gear swap, I'll have the full story.

When I received them this fall, I gave them a fresh coat of System Three Epoxy (Scott @ ON3P's clear coat of choice)



... Thom