2018-19 Praxis Skis Info and Resource Thread

[Shu Shu]

Do report back on the -1 build I’ve always thought the quixotes would be ideal for that\

+1

-1 Q is my top consideration for a custom as well. My regular Qs are my favorite Praxis pow ski. I know it's sacrilege, but I like them better than my Protest's and GPOs. The 108 Q could be such a rad day after stash hunting, tree ski.

[macon]

Do report back on the -1 build I’ve always thought the quixotes would be ideal for that


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+1

-1 Q is my top consideration for a custom as well. My regular Qs are my favorite Praxis pow ski. I know it's sacrilege, but I like them better than my Protest's and GPOs. The 108 Q could be such a rad day after stash hunting, tree ski.

It's also my hope that it will be the most dialed 108 ski.. at least for my ski style. I'm very optimistic about it, my first turns on it probably won't be until Jan 10th or so depending how the snow shapes up in the sierra as these shiny new skinny Q's are taking a backseat to my rock skis right now.

I think the skinny Q has the potential to be a massively underrated ski, but we will see.

[birdboatboy]

Fresh mount, now to find some snow.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Skinny Q is my favorite everyday Colorado ski. Very predicable is all conditions and situations.

[Muggydude]

Anyone have a photo of CCR rocker? (GPO CCR even better)

[Duffman]

Regular veneer Q is my favorite ski of all time , so I've been eyeing a skinny Q for a while now but haven't pulled. trigger because I haven't been able to justify a use case as I generally travel to big snow areas with the Q and a 100ish ski and the big Q has been so good in anything remotely soft and fresh. Have been wondering how much different it would ski than a MVP 108 also.

[$teezus]

I have had 5 days on my 190 Jedi Mind Sticks now and I have to say that I am loving them. They are a really intuitive feeling ski for me coming from skis like Moment Wildcat 108, Faction Prodigy 2.0 and Black Crows Anima. The first thing that stood out to me is that they feel pretty loose, easy to pivot around and they have a nice even flex that makes them a not overly demanding ski. They have done great when I have opened them up. I would say suspension is a bit better than wildcat 108 and just a hair below Anima. I went zipping out of a couple chutes this past weekend and felt confident carrying speed and shutting down. Soft snow performance is better than any other ski I have owned, I was floating great in foot or two of snow over the weekend. In the air, really great on landings and as balanced as one would expect for a ski of this sort, maybe not the most poppy ski. I did notice them when rotating but I was coming off near center mounted prodigy 2.0s so that would be expected. They do really well on anything soft including groomers, but feel loose on true hard pack.

Could not be happier with these, best skis I have been on for soft resort days.

[Wetdog]

I have had 5 days on my 190 Jedi Mind Sticks now and I have to say that I am loving them. They are a really intuitive feeling ski for me coming from skis like Moment Wildcat 108, Faction Prodigy 2.0 and Black Crows Anima. The first thing that stood out to me is that they feel pretty loose, easy to pivot around and they have a nice even flex that makes them a not overly demanding ski. They have done great when I have opened them up. I would say suspension is a bit better than wildcat 108 and just a hair below Anima. I went zipping out of a couple chutes this past weekend and felt confident carrying speed and shutting down. Soft snow performance is better than any other ski I have owned, I was floating great in foot or two of snow over the weekend. In the air, really great on landings and as balanced as one would expect for a ski of this sort, maybe not the most poppy ski. I did notice them when rotating but I was coming off near center mounted prodigy 2.0s so that would be expected. They do really well on anything soft including groomers, but feel loose on true hard pack.

Could not be happier with these, best skis I have been on for soft resort days.

Really interesting to hear your impression on these. I was torn last year between these and the Anima. I went with the Anima because I got a really good deal on a pair of the previous season's left overs. They have similar specs on paper. Can you elaborate a bit more on a comparison between the two? Are they different enough that it would be worth having both? Love the Animas, but still covet the Mind Sticks, even more now that I have read your review.

[SnowMachine]

Really interesting to hear your impression on these. I was torn last year between these and the Anima. I went with the Anima because I got a really good deal on a pair of the previous season's left overs. They have similar specs on paper. Can you elaborate a bit more on a comparison between the two? Are they different enough that it would be worth having both? Love the Animas, but still covet the Mind Sticks, even more now that I have read your review.

I'll chime in with more details tomorrow, but I'm super tired right now. I pretty much agree with $teezus. It's a freestyle ski with backbone. Easy to ski for its size. Surprising carver for its width. I disagree a bit about performance in soft snow. If you can open them up, they are a lot of fun. They pound through soft chop. Now, that said, they do not noodle well for me. I skied them in deep, tech terrain and they felt like a lot of ski. I wasn't really ready to throw that into the universe. I want to give them another chance. I'll probably ski them tomorrow. I think I have about 10 days on them now. Only one in deep snow.

I can say that they absolutely have a place in my quiver and do-it-all very well. I could grab this ski and ski it anywhere, but obviously aren't quite as good as specialized skis in their element.

[3PinGrin]

MVP 108s ready to roll.

[dschane]

MVP 108s ready to roll.

Hot.

[singlesline]

FWIW my MVP 108 188 stock core + veneer weighed in at 2175g each which is the claimed weight for nylon

Interesting. And I can confirm - that's right about what my 188 nylons weigh.

I’m finally mounting mine and the weight is coming in a pinch lower at 2096/2103g

Fine by me. Maybe this summer’s cores came out a bit lighter.

[SnowMachine]

OK, a bit more on the Mind Sticks. I rode them again yesterday. The previous days was a foot of fresh. Yesterday was wind buffed ice, reblown snow, chalk and soft in the trees.

They're passable on hard snow and actually do well for their size/width. They RIP the reblown snow. They can carry a ton of speed in steep and smooth conditions that let you really tip them on edge. More drifting turns than carving them. Definitely fun and totally stable when you come back onto bumped up snow. They're confidence inspiring to go fast on.

Now, I haven't skied them in true steep, open blower pow, but I did get them into a foot of pow and chop. Zero feeling that the tips would drop on me. They float well. That said, it's a lot of ski for me in the trees with soft snow. Maybe the lack of taper in the tips/tails. Maybe the stiffness (they ski pretty stout at the ends). I got my ass pretty squarely kicked when we caught a rope drop into some steep cliffed out terrain. I caught a tree pretty good on a run out in deep dnow because i couldnt make the correction i needed to. My 191 Renegades are much easier to turns at slower speeds and in tight spots.

Overall, I like the ski and think it totally fits the design parameter. It's not really my dream daily driver since I spend a fair amount of time noodling trees and steeps, looking for things to drop or jump off. The more I open them up, the more I like them. A size in between 182 and 190 would probably be a nice balanced ski.

How much I ski them will determine where they fit in my quiver. I'm going to give them some time. Right now, in my world, I have a better pow stick and an easier cleanup day ski. I still need something narrower for hardpack (I have pressed the Mind Stick into low tide duty with impressive results).

My final impression: very good at doing what it was meant to do if not the most versatile ski. I could daily it if I stayed out of the tight spaces at speed and with deep snow.

[Shu Shu]

Just wanted to say my Q is still an absolute cheater pow/tree ski. We got about a foot of snow in high wind storm, mostly accumulated in the woods. Some places pretty blower and some heavily slabbed. The transition between the two was not always visibly apparent making for some challenging conditions. With the Q they just slide and smear through everything like butter. Such a fun drifty friction-less experience.

[singlesline]

Mounted up the custom topsheet MVP108s. Pumped to give them a go.



Glad I held out for a pair of blue bindings.

[SnowMachine]

Mounted up the custom topsheet MVP108s. Pumped to give them a go.



Glad I held out for a pair of blue bindings.

Those are beautiful!!!

[macon]

Do report back on the -1 build I’ve always thought the quixotes would be ideal for that


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+1

-1 Q is my top consideration for a custom as well. My regular Qs are my favorite Praxis pow ski. I know it's sacrilege, but I like them better than my Protest's and GPOs. The 108 Q could be such a rad day after stash hunting, tree ski.

Skinny Q is my favorite everyday Colorado ski. Very predicable is all conditions and situations.

Took the Skinny Qs out at Sugar Bowl this past weekend to christen them in the storm.

The storm ended up being way warmer than anyone had anticipated, and the snow was pretty manky on Sunday, but I got 3 days on them and they RIP.

One thing I noticed:
These are mounted at the recommended line (-7) and that's pretty far back for my liking. Compared to my other skis (Praxis FRS @ -5, Dynastar Menace @ -4, Moment Wildcat @ -5) that's much further back than my liking, and it was noticeable.

I think my next move is to remount further forward with Binding Freedom inserts at -5cm (so moving them forward +2). I think that's going to be a very sweet spot for me, and I will probably like it a lot.

The skis behaved exactly how I expected however. I think with a remount I'm going to be in love with these. They're playful, fairly damp, and quite light. They remind me a lot of the bibbys but the asymmetric sidecut has a noticeable effect on getting the inside ski around on steep and manky terrain. That's exactly what I was hoping for.

So, lots of optimism from me here!

[Muggydude]

I’ll come here to say the regular Quixotes are also my favorite praxis pow ski. Just so intuitive and easy to ski, mob over everything in the heavy hitter veneer carbon core configuration. Can shut them down in a dive.

As with most of my praxis skis, I like them behind the line 1-1.5 cm. I can’t really imagine going 2cm ahead of the line, they already get sideways so easy, and I’ve never really felt they demanded to be driven hard or anything. I am on the 182cm version though so that plays a big role. I’m really happy with these being shorter for a resort day-after-the storm or shallower pow day type ski.

Skinny UL Veneer Q would be a killer touring ski

[macon]

I’ll come here to say the regular Quixotes are also my favorite praxis pow ski. Just so intuitive and easy to ski, mob over everything in the heavy hitter veneer carbon core configuration. Can shut them down in a dive.

As with most of my praxis skis, I like them behind the line 1-1.5 cm. I can’t really imagine going 2cm ahead of the line, they already get sideways so easy, and I’ve never really felt they demanded to be driven hard or anything. I am on the 182cm version though so that plays a big role. I’m really happy with these being shorter for a resort day-after-the storm or shallower pow day type ski.

Skinny UL Veneer Q would be a killer touring ski

For my ski style - very neutral/balanced ski position - I've noticed I tend prefer my Praxis ahead of the line. It's less about getting them sideways and for me it's more about my balance. I tend to prefer jibs and such and feel very off balance when I have a lot of ski out in front of me relative to the tails. I've spent the better part of the past decade moving more neutral so I even prefer it when charging now.

I don't blame anyone who mounts the skis back for a more directional style, however. That's just not the way I ski these days. I actually fully suspected I'd want them further forward when I placed the order, but I'm glad I started at the recommended line as a point of reference. So far these skis are living up to my expectations.

As with most Praxis skis, the sweet spot for a given skier is much smaller as the skis are typically less forgiving in general - so mount point is a bit more critical than with other skis that have a bit more of a forgiving position (like moments) - but that's also some of the magic with Praxis, when you find that sweet spot they quickly become your favorite ski.

[Muggydude]

I think I’d say the opposite a little bit - moving the mount point doesn’t affect the skis any more than most brands, but Praxis recommended lines are perhaps more generalized for all skiers vs specific for a type of skier that might be most likely to buy a certain ski.

The mount point is very forgiving and flexible - Keith designs them with the recommended point in the middle of where most people might like a ski - but the design allows for more directional folk to go back 1-2cm, or more jibby folk to go forward 1-2cm.

Unfortunately, I don’t think most people realize this and think the skis are really intended to be skied on the line. Some brands are like that.

There might be less confusion and more people who feel a ski is dialed for them if they put has marks at 1 and 2cm both forward and behind the line like some brands do

[singlesline]

For my ski style - very neutral/balanced ski position - I've noticed I tend prefer my Praxis ahead of the line. It's less about getting them sideways and for me it's more about my balance. I tend to prefer jibs and such and feel very off balance when I have a lot of ski out in front of me relative to the tails. I've spent the better part of the past decade moving more neutral so I even prefer it when charging now.

I don't blame anyone who mounts the skis back for a more directional style, however. That's just not the way I ski these days. I actually fully suspected I'd want them further forward when I placed the order, but I'm glad I started at the recommended line as a point of reference. So far these skis are living up to my expectations.

As with most Praxis skis, the sweet spot for a given skier is much smaller as the skis are typically less forgiving in general - so mount point is a bit more critical than with other skis that have a bit more of a forgiving position (like moments) - but that's also some of the magic with Praxis, when you find that sweet spot they quickly become your favorite ski.

Do you think there's any merit to something like the Hoji mount point formula? Adjusting the mount point back for larger boots so you're getting the center of force around the toe/ball of your foot in the same place.

As someone 3 shell sizes larger than Hoji, it does seem kind of silly to base everything on the boot center relative to the ski is design. If I'm driving the front of my 28.5 boot and the toe piece is mounted 1.5cm further forward than it would be for a 25.5 boot, that's going to affect the ski differently.
Seems like this would be further exaccerbated by ski companies that use a consistent mount point across lengths (e.g. both a 165 and a 185 put the line at -7): percentage-wise that means the long ski is mounted further forwards, and taller skiers tend to have longer boots which puts toe pressure even further forwards.

I'm generally happy on the line on most skis though...my MVPs line is ~1cm further forward than the skis they are replacing, but they also have a more pronounced twin tip which should make the ski feel like a slightly shorter ski with a further back mount point.

[SnowMachine]

Any thoughts on a tip/tail detune? My Mindsticks are a bit hookier than I want in tight terrain. With the long rocker lines I was thinking of detuning to the contact points to see if it helped. I noticed it mostly in softer snow, so I'm not sure a detune will do much.

[Muggydude]

always worth checking the base flatness with a true bar. I also usually dull the contact points (2 inches in front and behind)for the tips and tails with a diamond stone, dull the far tip and tail rockered sections with file, and the rest with a few passes of a gummy. Eesxh section blended together. Praxis skis usually come quite sharp from the factory.


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[macon]

I think I’d say the opposite a little bit - moving the mount point doesn’t affect the skis any more than most brands, but Praxis recommended lines are perhaps more generalized for all skiers vs specific for a type of skier that might be most likely to buy a certain ski.

The mount point is very forgiving and flexible - Keith designs them with the recommended point in the middle of where most people might like a ski - but the design allows for more directional folk to go back 1-2cm, or more jibby folk to go forward 1-2cm.

Unfortunately, I don’t think most people realize this and think the skis are really intended to be skied on the line. Some brands are like that.

There might be less confusion and more people who feel a ski is dialed for them if they put has marks at 1 and 2cm both forward and behind the line like some brands do

This is probably a fair assessment, maybe my summary was a bit reductive. Moment tends to design those freestyle skis with more of a freestyle focus, and the mount points reflect that. So that's perhaps why my perspective lies that way.

I think I'll be mounting forward 2cms from the rec on any future skis from Praxis with this in mind. I think skiing them on the line is totally fine, they're quite good there, but I have a strong feeling I'm going to love it at +2.

Do you think there's any merit to something like the Hoji mount point formula? Adjusting the mount point back for larger boots so you're getting the center of force around the toe/ball of your foot in the same place.

As someone 3 shell sizes larger than Hoji, it does seem kind of silly to base everything on the boot center relative to the ski is design. If I'm driving the front of my 28.5 boot and the toe piece is mounted 1.5cm further forward than it would be for a 25.5 boot, that's going to affect the ski differently.
Seems like this would be further exaccerbated by ski companies that use a consistent mount point across lengths (e.g. both a 165 and a 185 put the line at -7): percentage-wise that means the long ski is mounted further forwards, and taller skiers tend to have longer boots which puts toe pressure even further forwards.

I'm generally happy on the line on most skis though...my MVPs line is ~1cm further forward than the skis they are replacing, but they also have a more pronounced twin tip which should make the ski feel like a slightly shorter ski with a further back mount point.

Maybe so. The problem I have with this formula is that typically a mount is based on boot center, and the boot center basically acts as the pivot between fore/aft control in terms of skier weight and balance - depending on stance. Moving a 28.5 boot back 1.5cm to align the toes/ball of foot doesn't really seem like the right call to me. If we had a "CG" position marked on boots, that'd probably be a better way to go about mount points, but boots aren't really built that way and it's not how ski mfgs convey their mount point recommendations either (despite being the intent in the design). Skier/boot CG at the binding interface also changes dynamically with each turn. So it'd be a difficult proposition in general. Boot Center keeps it simple.

For skis that have the mount at the same spot regardless of ski length (e.g. -7), I don't think it's as easy as saying "that's not right" because it really depends on how what variable they're changing between lengths. Like, is the radius the same between lengths? Well then each ski is going to have a different taper, a different shovel size, different tip/tail widths, and they're all going behave differently anyway. There's a lot of variables contributing throughout the design, so I could imagine on some skis keeping the same rec mount would make sense, and others maybe not.

[waxoff]

Any thoughts on a tip/tail detune? My Mindsticks are a bit hookier than I want in tight terrain. With the long rocker lines I was thinking of detuning to the contact points to see if it helped. I noticed it mostly in softer snow, so I'm not sure a detune will do much.

My goto procedure is: All sections of edges that falls in the range of rockered AND tapered, i e. will never engage hardpack when ski is out on edge in carve, slarve, or drift, are completely rounded with a edge file.

Anything in between camber contact points OR effective edge is dealt with base bevel. I prefer sharp edges but appreciate more than one degree base bevel on certain skis. Usually anything between 0.5-1.0 bevel is fine for me.

Hooky tips/tails sucks!