Dysthymia/Persistent Depressive Disorder

[flyandski365]

So I'm not sure if I'm looking for advice or just venting a little, but hoping the collective wisdom here might steer me in the right direction.

My girlfriend of 5 years (we live together) has never exactly been a sunny person, and a generally low mood is something I've been aware of in her since very early in our relationship. Despite that, there are so many other great things about her and so many interests we share that I fell in love with her anyway. She definitely has good days and sometimes great days, but her baseline mood is brooding and negative even when things seem to be going her way. She often speaks so quietly I have to ask her to repeat herself more than once even if we're just a few feet away from each other, and frequently just sounds and acts sad. This seems to be her normal.

Small things that most people take in stride can get her down for days at a time, such as not getting a job interview. Disappointing for sure, but it shouldn't send someone into a multi-day funk. Some things that aren't even negative IMV will have her acting mopey and down. For example: Last night when I got home from pick-up soccer she was clearly in a funk. Flat affect. When I asked why she said she had been working all day (she works from home at the moment). The fuck? Why would that make you sad? I didn't say that out loud of course. Tired/burnt out, sure but not something to be sad about. In fact I would say it's something to be happy about given the challenges she's faced getting a job in her field, which she now has. I understand that working from home can be isolating and that's definitely part of it, but not the whole story.

Her main coping mechanism seems to be spending money on going out to eat, breweries, etc. With money tight and a high cost of living, I've been trying to reign this in and get a little more financially healthy. We've talked extensively about finances but it still doesn't seem like it's sunk in, and I'm frequently in the position of saying no to suggestions of going out for dinner or what have you. The disappointment is palpable every single time. At this point she claims to be afraid to make suggestions for things for us to get out and do because I'll just shoot it down, but her suggestions are never cheap or free. When asked if she would be afraid to suggest a hike or something cheap or free that she knows I'll go for, she says no. And yet those are never her suggestions - it's always something we probably shouldn't be spending money on, like nice restaurants.

She's had a hard time making friends since the move west a little over two years ago. Back in Florida where we both grew up and went to school she had a few friends that she would hang out with from time to time, but certainly not regularly or often. Not enough to be what I would consider close, though she seemed to perceive them that way. I became her main source of social interaction and entertainment and that has only gotten worse since the move. If I'm busy or want to do something that doesn't involve her, she won't find anything to occupy her time other than TV or Facebook. She's done little to nothing to find her own social circle and complains about her lack of friends. I've become pretty good buddies with some guys from work and we get together with our spouses/SOs semi-regularly, and that is the extent of her social circle. Entirely dependent on relationships that I've cultivated.

I'm a pretty independent person and don't want or feel the need to spend 100% of my waking hours outside of work with her. Having time to myself or with (just) my friends without it being held against me in some way is difficult. We've talked a lot about this specific issue and while she voices it directly less frequently, from oblique comments and her attitude it's obvious she feels left out or resentful when she isn't included. I already include her in nearly all of my social activities, but the little bits to myself are clearly still a problem. Having someone rely on you for 100% of their entertainment and social interaction is suffocating.

Anyway, where all this is going is that I think she is struggling with some kind of mood disorder, with a side of anxiety. We've talked about it and she has at times admitted her own suspicions about this, but other times will insist that she's completely fine and I'm just reading too much into things. Sometimes even insisting that she doesn't sound sad at all. She almost always has a reason to give for why she's feeling or acting a certain way, but her emotional response is nearly always way out of scale with what she identifies as the cause. I suspect that a lot of times she attributes her mood to something external when she's really just finding something to pin it on.

For her happiness is always just around the next corner... If I can just get school finished up (she has), if we can just get out of FL (we did), if I can just get this job (she has), and once she reaches whatever milestone she's decided on for happiness nothing actually changes. I'm still living with Eeyore.

From what I've been reading, she sounds consistent with dysthymia/persistent depressive disorder. She went to counseling for a bit a few years ago and that seemed to help, but there was never a diagnosis. I'm encouraging her to seek treatment and she's open to the idea but hasn't even leaned in the direction of taking concrete steps, at least that I'm aware. I can't keep this up too much longer. It's exhausting and makes me dread coming home to her. She can be amazing, but I can't see this relationship surviving if she doesn't do something about this. We've discussed marriage in the past and it recently came up again. I was noticeably lukewarm on it which wasn't lost on her. I fucked up and didn't articulate my concerns about the long term health of our relationship based on the things I've written here. I'm sure I'll get another chance.

I want to be fair to her, and I want to help her if I can, but I really want to tell her that if she doesn't make a real effort to address this I'll walk. Sooner rather than later. Whether I actually have the fortitude to follow through... I'm honestly not sure. I love her and just want us to be happy, but if we can't be happy together I'd rather be on my own.

If you made it through all that and have any advice, I'd certainly welcome it.

[Flyoverland Captive]

Antidepressants have been lifesavers for several people I know. She really should see her doc.

[riser4]

tl;dr

Need pics.

[Dantheman]

Antidepressants have been lifesavers for several people I know. She really should see her doc.

They're sort of like ADHD drugs, stigmatized and way overprescribed but a godsend for some.

That said, if they offer her GLeeMONEX tell them to fuck off.

[flyandski365]

They're sort of like ADHD drugs, stigmatized and way overprescribed but a godsend for some.

That said, if they offer her GLeeMONEX tell them to fuck off.

What about Teamocil?

[PNWbrit]

She really should see her doc.

Nah... TGR thread will do it.

Get it up to 5 or 6 pages and have her read it.

[riser4]

For the record, my wife describes me as Eeyore. We've been married for almost 22 years. So I am doing at least something right.

[MakersTeleMark]

Do some molly with her.

[buttahflake]

She’s your girlfriend, not your wife. Send her home to Florida and move along. Nobody likes a mopey bitch.

[riser4]

She’s your girlfriend, not your wife. Send her home to Florida and move along. Nobody likes a mopey bitch.

What a way with words. However, the kernel of truth in that is that you can't change the GF. So you have to be willing to live with the worst of it, or move on. If she actually has something that benefits from treatment and gets that treatment, that's a bonus. However, as far as your diagnosis, leave that to the pros.

[Harry]

Do some molly with her.

That. Plus poopenhousen.

[flyandski365]

What a way with words. However, the kernel of truth in that is that you can't change the GF. So you have to be willing to live with the worst of it, or move on. If she actually has something that benefits from treatment and gets that treatment, that's a bonus. However, as far as your diagnosis, leave that to the pros.

I agree, and I'm not really trying to diagnose her myself - I know better than to assume I have any qualification in that regard. It just sounds the most like what I've experienced with her and sort of helps me make sense of it, that it could be something that can be diagnosed and treated. Gives me some hope I suppose. There's definitely some truth in what buttaflake said and at times that's been very much my attitude about it, but I have a tough time being that cold.

The good news is we talked about it again last night and she's supposed to make an appointment today. We'll see... I've heard that before.

[bagtagley]

The problem is, any solution, however effective, will be temporary. She'll think she's fine, or question why she ever started the treatment or the need for it. The funk always comes back. Learn to accept it, deal with it, work around it, etc., but don't expect it to go away. If kids are in the cards, consider the effect of that negativity on them. As mentioned, moving on is always an option. As much as you may believe they do, or want them to, the goods don't necessarily balance out the bads, in large part because of the resentment that builds up over time.

[MontuckyFried]

Just my $0.02, but I'd just be glad not to be married to her and would personally move on. She's lucky to have someone in her life who cares so much about her, but personally I don't have the mental energy to put up with that for very long. She sounds a LOT like my mother who does have clinically diagnosed depression issues. My poor father's put up with her for nearly 50 years now and has allowed her to crush his dreams and has eaten away at his soul. Before he married her, he was all about traveling the world, scuba diving, and so much more. She SAID she wanted to do all that, but then post-marriage she's been such a downer. Has to nay-say anything and everything. Even simple things like moving somewhere exciting or just taking a freaking trip somewhere cool. Everything gets shot down except for her lame-o boring stuff. He wants to see the world like he used to. She's perfectly content with being a homebody, while complaining about not doing cool things. There's ALWAYS some pathetic excuse. "I'm too tired." "We don't have enough money," (not true). "It's too far." "I can't get the time off work," (also not true since she has no problem getting time off to freaking weed the garden or something). Blah blah blah. I hate seeing my dad living a lifetime of utter lameness due to always having to tiptoe around her emotions. Screw that. Personally, homey don't play that with her, which could explain why I am no momma's boy and why I really think she doesn't like me either.

Anyway, that's why when I was dating around, any time I'd start seeing a person with these traits, I'd be running for the hills. There's probably plenty of sadsacks out there still mad at me for "breaking their hearts" as they put it, but nope. Ain't nobody got time for that! In my opinion, life's too short to deal with that nonsense. My dad's nearing the end of his expected lifespan according to family history (no male in my family has EVER made it to 80 or anywhere near it), and it's still all about her. Never mind HIS feelings or anything. Personally I always found that to be very selfish on her part. What you're doing may be noble, but a lifetime of dealing with her emotions may end up being a life long mental prison sentence for you. Gotta ask yourself how worth it that would be. Now IF she seeks help and gets treated and succeeds, that could be a different story, but that's a big "IF." Your depending on a lot of external factors there. When they forget to take their meds, life can suck. When they get in a funk, life can suck. When they stop getting professional help because they think they're all better, then life can suck. I dealt with my mom's issues for the first 18 years of my life, so I can say nope. Not for me. Whatever you decide, good luck, man. She's lucky to have you...for now. Hope she appreciates you.

[reckless toboggan]

Just an observation based on the very flawed form of communication of posting shit on message boards, so I could be way off:

You're not in love with her.

Either prepare and accept that she will be like this for the rest of your life, or move on.

Yes, people can change with help from professionals, but it is very rare.

The reality is that this is simply who she is and likely always will be. Either you can accept her, or you can't. Your expectation of whole sale changes in personality will only set you up for more disappointment and resentment later on.

You're not in love with her.

You're in love with the idea of who you'd like her to be.

Your idea of her is not a real thing.

[goldengatestinx]

Ever meet her mother? Same dealio or not?

Hereditary mood crap won't be beat.

[MontuckyFried]

The problem is, any solution, however effective, will be temporary. She'll think she's fine, or question why she ever started the treatment or the need for it. The funk always comes back. Learn to accept it, deal with it, work around it, etc., but don't expect it to go away. If kids are in the cards, consider the effect of that negativity on them. As mentioned, moving on is always an option. As much as you may believe they do, or want them to, the goods don't necessarily balance out the bads, in large part because of the resentment that builds up over time.

Nailed it. I alluded to the same exact things in my post. That was my mom's problem. After it all built up to an eventual emotional crescendo in her 40s that caused a serious nervous breakdown, she FINALLY got the help she needed. It was awesome and I saw a new side of her I never saw before, apparently it was a taste of her former self, pre-marriage. Then after a few years she stopped going since she felt she was all better. Now while she isn't near as bad as she got back then, she's still utterly lame and not somebody I could be married to. Her emotions are SOOOOOO annoying. She is so easily triggered into a serious depressive episode that my dad's always walking on eggshells around her. Couple months back I said some "insensitive" things (totally normal but triggering to her) and my dad was BEGGING me to knock it off and apologize lest he be dealing with her moodiness for the next few weeks. I did and it was fine, but I was thinking 'how pathetic is that'? That's exactly what I hate about people like that. While I understand depression is a very real thing, I find it annoying when your problems become everybody else's problems, no matter what they may be...depression, alcohol, drugs, whatever. It's one thing when they get help for and attempt to conquer those things, but when they don't it's just annoying as hell. I absolutely despise it when people's issues drag down everybody else around them. Now it's one thing to help out a friend in need. Yeah, I'm there! But it's a whole different ballgame to be married to that person, then it's a freaking prison sentence.

[muted]

Bagtagley has some good advice, and I agree with Flyoverland. See what the doc says, see if pills help. It's not 'very rare' as RT says for it to work, and it's worth a shot. Good luck and I hope she tries otherwise it will be difficult.

Austin, I think you are venting about your Mom and are projecting her issues onto others with depression, it's not all the same. What you find annoying also has little to do with flyman, but there is a thread for annoying things, don't worry!

[Micol]

I think with depression people want to curl up in bed and not leave home spend lots of time crying and contemplating suicide. She suggests going out, you are blocking due to money. She is not suggesting free stuff like hiking or outdoor activities but maybe has some pain issues (joint, soreness, etc) and doesn't complain about it. What if she was out all the time in your time after work with her girl or guy friends (just firends ) or solo and hanging at bars socializing without you? im not sure she is even really an introvert as they dont really want to be around other people at places like restaurants...

What do you need the money for as opposed to spending it going out ? how old are you guys? maybe at age of saving for something....house, car, skis, etc, or does 'going out' costs make billing paying tight? she is suggesting things but you are blocking. now you've zero'd in on it being costly and are looking for that suggestion to pop up which it inevitably does.... trips out of town help break up long periods of monotony. car trip it, discount airlines, get a time share in vegas, go monthly, etc

is she buying/collecting louis vuitton hermes hand bags, clothes and expensive shoes? that would be a money suck, going to restaurants does add up but probably less than one purse or pair of expensive shoes....

what do you personally spend money on?

work to find a hobby/activity you both can learn to love and enjoy together

i know too well that Western living costs are high, maybe rent/mortgage is sucking up too much disposable income, you can relocate to try to reel this in, same town, different town, etc

i don't want to know, but examine your sex life, hows that doing? its low cost, crank it up

however, if you can't live with her in this format, the grass could be greener, but it may not be all her

forget pushing meds and pills on someone, that could break you up, unless it is a legit mental illness i.e. bipolar disorder, personality disorder, manic depressive, heavy clinical depression, etc

"feel the need to spend 100% of my waking hours outside of work with her. Having time to myself or with (just) my friends"
did you move out with a group of friends? if not, she's your oldest friend, anybody else you have met in the last 2 years and I assume you are gone all day with work and around friends/co-workers.....

wish you guys the best

[MontuckyFried]

Austin, I think you are venting about your Mom and are projecting her issues onto others with depression, it's not all the same. What you find annoying also has little to do with flyman, but there is a thread for annoying things, don't worry!

Yeah, I suppose you're right. Fly's point about her happiness always being right around the corner, her lack of friends, and a few other specific things just reminded me so much of my mom that I guess I got triggered a bit and projected. Sorry for the vent. Definitely belongs in the designated thread. Haha. I guess I just have very little patience for this particular personality these days.

[doebedoe]

I think with depression people want to curl up in bed and not leave home spend lots of time crying and contemplating suicide. ....

Not necessarily. There are many very high functioning depressives out there -- as recent celebrity suicides are a stark reminder of.

OP -- your GF sounds a lot like me when I'm down. It sucks. I was diagnosed with depression about 8 years ago. That may or may not be true to her. What has worked for me has varied a lot over those years. At times it was SSRIs, with some emergency Xanax, at other times it has been spending a lot of time in meditation, at others excercise has been critical, or a life-project that is very meaningful to me (raising a pup etc.) What works to help everyone is different, and what works does not always continue to work in the future. This is frustrating AF from the standpoint of a SO, as just when they seem like they got their shit together, it can all fall apart.

I agree with others, that this ain't something you can change alone. You sound like you're pretty damn thoughtful, and trying to support. Take care of yourself, and know how much support you can provide without negatively impacting your life. It is completely fair to say that you're unable to support her in this way, and that needs to be the end of your relationship. She'll hate you for it. I certainly hated the wonderful woman who left me when I wasn't able to moderate my illness. But at the end of the day if you ain't happy with your life, there's no way for you too to be happy.

What you can do specifically -- who knows. The biggest thing as someone who has been in her position is that your support comes as an offer, not a demand. Hard line to walk, esp if you've already go the "it might not work" thoughts. Something like encouraging her to get out hiking with a friend w/o you present (maybe even suggest to a mutual friend that they go on a trip so your SO doesn't have to initate), or some support to get into a hobby that doesn't involve you, or making therapy/counseling as easy to participate in as possible. Re:fiscal shit -- I feel the same way a lot, we spend way more than we should on beer. One work around for me is to work on the house to encourage others to come over for dinner, or brunch, or just a few drinks in our space rather than going out. Not sure if that's viable for you -- but it saves some $ and gives social interaction.

[glademaster]

While nobody here can diagnose exactly what is causing the issues your girlfriend is experiencing, or what the roots of them might be, it is possible to relate and empathize with both of you.

I will have more to add to this later when I'm not at work, but I know the challenges this situation presents to both of you, as I have had several meaningful relationships strained and ultimately destroyed by own struggles with anxiety/perfectionism, lack of self-worth, and finding the negatives in any situation, no matter how positive.

Best of luck to both of you. It sounds like perhaps she may struggle with seeing her capabilities/desirable attributes/redeeming qualities as a person, and that kind of thinking can have a poisonous effect on the way you view her. Don't stick your head in the sand if things are going south, but be mindful of those redeeming/desirable qualities, don't let her dim view of herself obscure your knowledge of the person she really is.

[flyandski365]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Being an optimist to a fault at times, some of the less encouraging posts are actually quite helpful in terms of reckoning with the potential reality of dealing with this. There were a number of questions; I'll try to address some of them.

She is not suggesting free stuff like hiking or outdoor activities but maybe has some pain issues (joint, soreness, etc) and doesn't complain about it. What if she was out all the time in your time after work with her girl or guy friends (just firends ) or solo and hanging at bars socializing without you? im not sure she is even really an introvert as they dont really want to be around other people at places like restaurants...

Physically she's pretty tough and in pretty good shape, but if something is hurting I'll definitely hear about it. We both exercise regularly, sometimes together and I haven't noticed anything amiss in that regard. If she had a group of her own friends that she hung out with regularly I'd be thrilled to be honest. It would be good for both of us and take some of the pressure off me as her social facilitator.

Regarding money - Yeah, the spending going out, too expensive birthday gifts, etc has impacted our ability to cover bills at times. Money burns a hole in her pocket like almost no one I've known. She's not a collector of expensive things, just doesn't know when to quit when it comes to spending on fun. She also goes over the top on gifts - which can turn a little sour when she can't make her CC payment because of it... I won't get into detail but you can imagine what someone with her proclivities could do with a few credit cards. I've been far from perfect when it comes to managing money in the past, but I'm trying to help her learn from my experiences and not make the same mistakes. I could write volumes on this subject with her but I'll leave it at that.

did you move out with a group of friends? if not, she's your oldest friend, anybody else you have met in the last 2 years and I assume you are gone all day with work and around friends/co-workers.....

My brother lives a few hours away - used to be closer but moved recently. A few friends from the guiding community but I don't see them often as they're scattered to the winds. The friends I've made have mostly been from work and I see them almost daily. I know that's something she's lacking, but she also hasn't done anything about it. Making friends as an adult doesn't happen by accident and it takes a little effort to make it happen sometimes. It's always been easy for me, but I actively seek it out and look for connections with people. She doesn't and I can't make her, but I think if she had more confidence/self worth she might.

Re: Hobbies together. That's actually something we do have, but can't do anything about it at the moment. We're both falconers but living in an apartment prevents us from keeping any raptors to hunt with. We're looking to fix that but it might not be for another year. Took her to shoot and look at bows a while back and she really liked it and was jazzed on the idea of bowhunting but has cooled on the idea recently. Not sure why.

Her mom is cheery but controlling and overprotective. Might have something to do with the low self-esteem? Hard to say, but her mom definitely doesn't appear to have a mood problem. Her dad has been out of the picture since she was little but sounds like a real piece of work. Probably not helpful for myriad reasons.

Austin - with a few slight tweaks I'd think your mother and mine are the same person. Seems like it's affected us a little differently though. Maybe I'd be better off if I was more like you but instead it seems like I've taken after my father in terms of patience. My brother is more like you and probably better for it.

[Flyoverland Captive]

Read Susan Cain’s “Quiet”. It’s corny at first, but gets pretty damn interesting. Great insights into people who really prefer to be alone, aren’t good at social stuff, etc. It was not at all what I expected; worth a read. It might give you a different perspective on her point of view.

[buttahflake]

Dude, you already know the answer. It’s okay, bro. Move forward. Stressing about crazy, is no where to be.