KINGPIN RECALL

[Shorty_J]

There's no binding that's going to protect soft tissue . Bindings are designed to protect bones, which are a lot stronger than ligaments or tendons.



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Did you read the link macon posted?

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[Shorty_J]

I get the idea of buying as much safety as is reasonable, but to my way of thinking, a Tecton stands a far greater chance of releasing to alpine binding standards than any standard tech binding does.

Yes, but that presumes that I want to release to alpine binding standards.

I'd much rather "reliably" protect my tib/fib than unreliably (my assumption) "protect" my ACL.

Fair enough, for you. I'd rather protect my known weak spot.

Different strokes for different folks.

[macon]

In that link you posted they showed that with alpine bindings, tibial fractures are low occurance and ACL ruptures are high. It's suggested that this is entirely due to toe rotation release instead of heel, and that those occurance rates would swap if alpine bindings were lateral heel release.

Yep, I saw that. I'd imagine that we'd see a high incidence of tib/fib fractures if everyone rode tech bindings inbounds.

I literally and figuratively feel your pain with regard to your pursuit for a robust knee-saving touring binding. I imagine we'll see something eventually, but in the meantime a Vipec Evo, Tecton, or Solly Shift will have to satisfy those needs... I'm not totally sold on marker.

[retirwntm]

Snowboarding. It can fuck up a lot of other shit but knee issues are pretty low.


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[Shorty_J]

Yep, I saw that. I'd imagine that we'd see a high incidence of tib/fib fractures if everyone rode tech bindings inbounds.

I literally and figuratively feel your pain with regard to your pursuit for a robust knee-saving touring binding. I imagine we'll see something eventually, but in the meantime a Vipec Evo, Tecton, or Solly Shift will have to satisfy those needs... I'm not totally sold on marker.

There's still the old standby of dynafit.

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[nickel]

serious question to those concerned about a binding saving their knees: how extensive a training regimen do you undertake to strengthen all the muscles responsible for protecting and stabilizing your knees?

[rod9301]

Did you read the link macon posted?

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Sure, it's been around for a while, but i question the source

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[rod9301]

serious question to those concerned about a binding saving their knees: how extensive a training regimen do you undertake to strengthen all the muscles responsible for protecting and stabilizing your knees?

I lift heavy for my legs quads, hamstrings and butt.
Once the big muscles are taken care of, the little ones get string enough with sports.
The are though people that believe the small muscles are important, but all the research I've seen doesn't agree

And no, i don't remember any sources, but easy to Google

And people that recommend all sorts of weird and constantly changing exercises are personal trainers, who have an account to grind.

After all, if they told you that all you need is three exercises, why would you see them again?

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[galibier_numero_un]

Yes, but that presumes that I want to release to alpine binding standards.

Fair enough, for you. I'd rather protect my known weak spot.

Different strokes for different folks.

I'm not calling your strategy into question but rather your confidence in tech bindings. I ski all of them much more conservatively than I do my Pivots, both because of the bindings as well as the fact that I don't want my partner to have to carry me out.

My only point is that I have much more confidence in lateral release of a Vipec/Tecton than I do the lateral release of a tech binding. The tech binding that doesn't release, doesn't protect your ACL.

Having said that, I'm all but certain that I'll be picking up either a set of ATK Haute Route 2.0s (that's the Black Diamond Helio 200 in 'murica) or Crest 180s for some light missions on some flyweight skis

... Thom

[rod9301]

And i can't believe someone would still consider buying kingpins after all the problems they had!!!???
And for really dubious benefits!!
Remember the 6 springs in the toes?

And the wildsnow tests that showed that they had less clamping force than many other bindings??

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[galibier_numero_un]

And i can't believe someone would still consider buying kingpins after all the problems they had!!!???
And for really dubious benefits!!
Remember the 6 springs in the toes?

And the wildsnow tests that showed that they had less clamping force than many other bindings??

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^^^ this ^^^

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[macon]

serious question to those concerned about a binding saving their knees: how extensive a training regimen do you undertake to strengthen all the muscles responsible for protecting and stabilizing your knees?

I see a physical therapist once to twice weekly and exercise every other day. Pretty rigorous, but no amount of muscle/stability will save your ACL in the wrong type of fall. I mean, just look at John Collinson as an example - dude's a beast but snapped his clean last April. His recovery is honestly next level though.

[Shorty_J]

And i can't believe someone would still consider buying kingpins after all the problems they had!!!???
And for really dubious benefits!!
Remember the 6 springs in the toes?

And the wildsnow tests that showed that they had less clamping force than many other bindings??

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Just because YOU don't buy the argument that lateral heel release doesn't reduce ACL rupture danger doesn't mean it's a dubious argument.

And I don't know your education or background to judge whether or not your questioning of this argument is based in something more tangible than a guess. I'm not sure if he is right or you are but he explains his position and it makes sense to me... You just say you don't buy it. Does that make your argument dubious?

Doesn't really matter to me. I'm not set on anything yet, but I'm leaning towards tech (not necessarily marker) for the reasons outlined and I'm using these forums to gather information to help with my decision... Which is exactly what tech talk is for.

So you don't get why I want lateral heel release and I don't get why you care so much and what your hunch is based on.

Meh... I'm done explaining my questions now.

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[bourbonisgood]

There are though people that believe the small muscles are important, but all the research I've seen doesn't agree

...yikes

These “people” you speak of = the entire medical profession

Would love to see this research that refutes the entire body of evidence in physical medicine

[rod9301]

...yikes

These “people” you speak of = the entire medical profession

Would love to see this research that refutes the entire body of evidence in physical medicine

Google it

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[bourbonisgood]

Google it

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I did, just to humor you. Bupkis.

I don’t have a dog in the fight regarding Kingpins. But I’m not crazy about folks spreading wildly unsubstantiated myths about the way the human body works

[Shorty_J]

This thread derailed.

I suppose I contributed to that and I'm sorry for my role.

But realistically, I just posted some questions and comments on topic and then it somehow turned into a "wtf, why don't you want tectons" thread... Etc.

Can we get back to relevant content here now?

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[hercule33]

The problems with the kingpins are really troubling, especially the pins breaking. For those of us that have received a good batch I will say that it is a really nice binding, especially for touring. Little to none icing issues, easy transitions, good on the up and great on the down. Other than the catastrophic failures, they actually don’t have that many quirks (like brakes not locking or switching back into ski mode when touring) which I find super annoying when touring. Such a shame Marker had all the catastrophic issues with this binding.

[frorider]

I bought kingpins not long after they first became available...for a pair of beat up fatties I use for sidecountry laps that always have some rock sharks on the exit. They had a toepiece recall that first season, so Mammoth Mtneering got me replacements for peace of mind. Since then I’ve maybe had 25 days on them with no issues.

So.....just picked up some new but inexpensive 124 fatties that would be the replacement beater skis. Was planning to put these old faithful kingpins on there but this thread has me hesitating.

Not in the mood to buy yet another pair of fritschis for a pair of skis I’ll rarely use. So convince me that I have one of the bomber kingpins.

[hercule33]

I would say 25 days with no issues is a pretty good indication that you got a good pair. I think I have a bit more than that on mine and I have confidence in them.

[stuntmanbo]

I had a good 2016 pair but got tons of icing problems at the toe though.

[hercule33]

I had a good 2016 pair but got tons of icing problems at the toe though.

That’s interesting because my Kingpins have no icing issues at the toe. In fact, my Dynafit Speed Turns have a much bigger icing problem with the toes. Could be the ski color more than the binding.

[nyskirat]

I've got a pair from the 1st year, post-1st pin issue, that have held up fine to quite a few days of skiing (35?) powder, east coast hard pack, and crud.

[frorider]

Thx guys, mission accomplished.

I usually put silicone paste under and on tech toe springs. I haven't had icing issues on kingpins. :shrug: no tib/fib fractures either, that I recall.

[nickel]

it took my first set about a hundred days to start self destructing but once they did, everything went. both heels and both toes, then another toe almost immediately.

I finally got my toes back from the recall, almost exactly 4 months to the day.